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Kubota Transmission Fluid SUDT

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snmhanson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 27 White Salmon, WA
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2004-05-25          86789

I am finishing up my fifty hour service on my B7800. The only thing I have left to do is change the transmission fluid and filter. My dealer who also sells Deere gave me some of Deere's Hy-Gard transmission oil. They said it is all they have and they use it in everything - I think because it's cheaper than the Kubota transmission fluid. However, my manual is pretty adament about using UGT or Super UGT. I realize there are other fluids that will work but will the Deere oil they gave me work well or should I seek out something else. The only thing that really concerns me a little is that I heard that using transmission OIL rather than FLUID can damage wet brakes. Is that right or is there really no difference between transmission oil and transmissio fluid? Thanks for the help.

Matt


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DRankin
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2004-05-25          86803

It is a common practice for dealers to sell two or more tractor lines and only one brand of fluid.

The dealer down the road uses Deere fluids in Kubotas and has for years. The dealer in the next county uses Case fluids in all the Kubota's he sells, including my RTV.

In fact, the nearest dealer I can find that stocks Kubota tractors and Kubota fluids is 130 miles away in another state.

You will know if the fluids are incompatible with your wet brakes because the brakes will "chatter". The only fluid incompatibility (due to brake chatter)I have heard about is Case fluid in Deere tractors and vice-versa.

....

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snmhanson
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2004-05-25          86808

Thanks DRankin, just the answer I was hoping for. Now I don't have to go on a hunt for Kubota trans fluid. I'll keep an eye on my brakes but it sounds like it should work fine.

Matt ....

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Murf
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2004-05-25          86816

As long as the fluid meets spec. you'll be fine.

The only thing you really have to watch is if you have a HST unit, regular hydraulic fluid is not the same as that required by a HST unit.

HST units require higher levels of certain additives, especially anti-foaming agents.

Best of luck. ....

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oneace
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2004-05-25          86850

Well we sell nh case ih and kubota. nh uses regular universal hyd. fluid as do the "NEW" cases the older cases use hy-trans, and kubota's use the ugt. We do not mix any of the different fluids. BUT if your dealer is selling you different fluid than it is his ass if your pump goes out. Because when you do a warranty repair we have to send the defective pat to the respective manufacture for analysis. and if they find a different fluid than what they say they will deny the claim. But then the dealer will have to eat the repair bill cause he sold it to you. I know kubota if very picky about what juice you run through it. ....

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Art White
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2004-05-25          86855

Just like the quality levels in everything else oil has it's variations too. We are a multi line dealer and would love to sell just one brand of oils. We have our favorites for there different applications. We do recommend Super UDT for the Kubota's and strongly over the Deere oil and even over our CNH oils. ....

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jarndt
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2004-05-26          86877

You have to ask yourself... What am I saving by not using the correct oil? Money? Convenience? Surely not in the long run on either account. Why guess at all? The difference in cost is maybe a few dollars up front. I would question any dealer that does not follow the manufacturer's instructions. The engineers that designed the machine KNOW the reasons why certain specs are there. Save yourself the trouble and use Kubota fluids in a Kubota, Deere fluids in a Deere and so on. ....

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snmhanson
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2004-05-26          86890

Alright, I had to go to the big city anyway so I stopped by the next closest Kubota dealer and picked up some Super UDT. I'm sure the Deere oil would have worked out ok but it was only a five minute detour to get the Kubota fluid. I will return the Deere stuff or give it to a farmer down the road. Thanks for the help.

I was also hoping to give a run down of what I did for my fifty hour service just for a little reassurance that I did it all correctly. Here is what I did in the order that I did it:

- Conducted test of tractor starting per manual.

- Drained engine oil at both drain plugs, replaced engine oil filter, refilled engine oil, ran engine for a minute or so and added a little more oil to get it to the correct level.

- Drained tansmission fluid at all four drain plugs (the plug at the transmission housing was smaller than the other three and drained really slow?), replaced both transmission fluid filter and hydro filter, will remove strainer and clean with kerosene but I need to get a larger socket to fit the strainer and then will add ~3.8 gallons Super UDT.

- The old filters were all on pretty tight, especially the trans fluid filter. I actually dented the trans and hydraulic filters while taking them off with a filter remover. When putting the new ones on I followed the directions and only turned them ~1/2 turn by hand after the seal came in contact. However, they are not on as tight as the old ones were. Should I tighten them a little more or just leave them how they are?

- Also, some of the new filters are SLIGHTLY different than the old filters. By slightly I mean a couple of the holes on the inside are maybe just a different shape or size or configured a little differently and the aesthetics are maybe a little different but the filters themselves are the same size and they all fit well. I double checked the numbers on the boxes and they matched what the specs from the Kubota website called for. Is it normal for the replacement filters to vary slightly from the original ones? I think I'm just being paranoid here but I'd rather ask a dumb question than be sorry.

- Inspected and replaced outer air filter - It was pretty dirty and didn't let any light through when looking into it at a light.

- Still need to grease all points on tractor and FEL and check tire pressure and bolts but I do that somewhat regularly anyway.


I've never really done this type of maintainance work before so I'm just being a little cautious. Is there anything I forgot or did wrong? If, by chance, I screwed something up with the oil or filters would it be obvious when I run the tractor or can a mistake be made that will hurt the tractor without me knowing about it? The changing of the oil and filters almost seemed too easy but I followed the manual pretty closely so I think I got it all right. Any suggestions or hints would be great. Thanks again for all the help!

Matt ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-26          86895

Sounds like a complete service to me.

The filters will vary slightly in cosmetics, as long as the part #'s match you are good to go. As far as tightening the filters: if they are not leaking they are on tight enough.

Some manuals recommend blowing the dust out of the outer air filter with compressed air, might save a couple bucks next time. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-26          86905

Does the Kubota manual say to use ONLY Super UDT? Or does it give some fluid specs that should be followed? The JD manual recommends their HyGard fluids (of course) but also says you can use any transmission fluid that meets JDM20D or J20C specs. Not sure if those specs are specific to JD or if they are used industry wide (or both). I'm curious if these specs are printed on the label of the Kubota fluids. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
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2004-05-26          86913

JD sells a HyGard and a Low Viscosity HyGard. The 4x00's and 4x10's use the LV HG in both the Hyd-Trans and the FWD axle. I'd want to know which was being considered -- the LV stuff is really like water. I hate it -- it's nearly impossible to see on the dip stick especially the yellow one in the axle. (I've started using a popicle stick to check fluid level; at least you can see the wetting)
jim
....

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DRankin
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2004-05-26          86914

According to the 4115 owners manual Low-Vis is for cold weather ops and it's max temperature window tops out about +85 degrees F.

The same chart shows regular HyGard has a operating range of -10 F to +122 F . ....

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Billy
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2004-05-26          86917

Mark, you're right. The manual does say the LV stuff is for cooler climates but I've been told to use the LV year round. I went through this with JD and the Service Manager where I bought my tractor. The SM said, according to the JD class he went to, that only LV should be used in the hydro tranny. The dipstick even states to use the LV.

I gave up on who or what I think is right. I'm sticking with what the SM told me. He seems to be a very knowledgeable guy. ....

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beagle
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2004-05-26          86918

My Kubota manual says only Super UDT is recommended. I have discussed this some others and the dealer, and they all recommended staying with the Super UDT. It is a synthetic blend with additives that assure the Hydro performs properly and is better at cold temperatures. For the $4 a gallon difference, it sounds worth it. ....

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AnnBrush
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2004-05-26          86919

Lets face it Tractor manufacturers are not in the oil business. They get their trans and engine oil manufactured by Texaco or BP for example. Oil companies manufacture it according to some specification usually developed jointly by the oil co and engineers at Deere (or whomever). The name-brand oil is a usually a highly (profit) margined product for the dealer (dealers would not go into oil sales if it was not). Specifications for oils are technical enough to allow Deere to specify a specific type of oil that meets their machines' needs. If this is so any oil meeting this specification will suffice. Generally oil color and smell has little relevance to performance (for example color depends largly on the basestock used to make the oil). Human sensory evaluation of an oil is a hopelessly inadequate method on which to evaluate the product. Look at the label if it says it meets XYZ spec then it meets the spec regardless of who's bottle its in. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-26          86921

beagle, does the Kubota manual make no reference to the specs that the fluid must meet? ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-26          86922

Does anyone have the spec sheet for Super UDT? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-26          86923

A spec sheet would be most complete, but it would be good to know if the Super UDT label indicates what specs it meets. Anyone have a jug of Super UDT? ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-26          86925

I've got the jugs, they say nothing except that Super UDT is extra protection for cold weather operations.

There are no specs and no cross references.

I sure would like to settle on one oil that is spec'd for Green and Orange HST's. ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-26          86926

Billy, I just asked JD on-line tech support that exact question: HST + 110 degrees + the OM seems to indicate regular HyGard was the best choice. Their response was to follow the manual recommendations. (???)

I have also heard that Low Vis was for HST's (due to foaming)and HyGard was for gear tranny's. I don't know what to believe either. ....

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Billy
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2004-05-26          86937

Mark, I asked the exact same question to JD on-line tech support and they told me the same answer. I told them/he what the service manager said "JD said" in the school he went to and the tech guy crayfishes and says to follow the Dealers guidance?

I've give up on a true answer and decided to use the LV. I will say (and I don't know whether it means anything) I have used the tractor in 100 +/- heat and tilling hard, with no problems.

PS
I also saved the emails JD tech and I exchanged. ....

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beagle
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2004-05-26          86939

I'm going to do some checking tonight about the Super UDT. These fluids serve several functions; cooling, lubrication, along with fluid power. I'll see if I can find a spec sheet. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-26          86945

Here's a link to a page describing JD's HyGard fluid. What's interesting vis a vis this thread is that down in the Service Ratings section it says it's suitable for Kubota's UDT and Super UDT applications. ....


Link:   JD HyGard

 
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oneace
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2004-05-26          86960

We should have a msds on udt I'll look at that and See what that says but I doubt it will give any specs on it. Are there any chemists here? It will give the chemical comp. ....

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beagle
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2004-05-26          86968

Nope, not a chemist, just said earlier I would check to see if I had spec sheets for Super UDT. Nope, must be a secret formula, like the Colonel's Chicken. ....

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jeff r
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2004-05-26          86970

I use Chevron's 100% synthetic hydro fluid and for 5 gallons it was 78 bucks. Chevron said it was 100% comaptible with what Kubota recommends. Synthetic hydro fluid run cooler than regular tranny fluid. ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-27          87011

So, the plot thickens. I have the Hy-Gard numbers Deere published in Nov 2002 and it lists UDT but not Super UDT.

Until I read the new Hy-Gard numbers, Chevron All Weather was the only Hydro fluid that claimed parity with Super UDT.

I reasoned that was because it is a full synthetic and covered all the bases.

Now I have to ask this: If Low-Vis Hy-Gard is supposed to be the "do it all" fluid, hows come it doesn't cross reference to Super UDT and Hy-Gard does.

I think my head hurts.

Someone is going to pop in here and say I am forgetting Amsoil. I cannot bring myself to consider Amsoil because of price, non-standard testing and the stupid marketing hoops one has to jump through to get it.
....

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AnnBrush
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2004-05-27          87031

This is beginning to sound A LOT like something we deal with in statistics all the time. When there is no real difference among products there is an awful large amount of uncertainty and confusion. Conversley if there was a real difference among products there would be plenty of hard evidence and a obvious course of action. ....

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oneace
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2004-05-27          87044

I agree with the amsoil comment plus it is more $$ the udt or hy guard. ....

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bluetay
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2004-05-27          87067

I found this thread interesting and thought I'd throw this comment in to consider. All hazardous material (includes oil) sold in the USA must by law list the specs it meets listed by the FTC. I believe the "use our oil or else" went out the window by a court decision in Caterpillar vs Quaker State where the specs list was met by both oils and Caterpillar was ordered to do the warranty work. I think this was back in the early 70's. ....

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Art White
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2004-05-28          87079

There is a book out there that does have all the break downs of oils. I can't think of it's name at this time but it is put out by the oil industry. The fact that an oil can does label to fit a companies application doesn't mean the manufacturers oil isn't better for your unit then a off brand. In the late seventies IH tested and designed oils for there engines and I know that nobody ever tested there oils the same. Some diesel engines would have trouble just getting to 3000 hours much less doing it at full throttle and full load without an oil change. We see engines day in and out that the problem was the oil or I could say the oil might or was not changed often enough for it's quality in those conditions. I've rebuilt engines on synthetics so I feel there is little saint hood for any oil. Right now we are down to an oil change on an engine to 100 hours to fix a oil consumption problem when the manufacturer says the changes are supposed to be at 250 hours. If you have an oil you like go for it, worst case senerio you will get to meet your dealers service deptartment. ....

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oneace
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2004-05-28          87125

Very well put art. I have seen equipt. come in for service normally a repair of some sort and have over 500 hrs. on it with the factory filter. on nh you can tell cause the filters are painted when the unit is painted. It makes me wonder why they chose not to change there oils/filters. If they would have an engine failure and they still had the original filter on the unit warranty would be denied. Keeping your unit serviced properly and not abusing it, it will ultimately out last you and probably your children. Look how many farmall h, and m, as well ans the 9n 2n and jubilees are still out there working the fields. If they were not taken care of they would be melted down and part of your tractor by now. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-29          87163

Kubota seems to subscribe to the FUD tactic of coercing customers to use Super UDT. They don't say specifically WHY their fluid is better than competitive products, or WHY you must use it, or WHY other brands don't meet their specs, and they don't seem to publish the specs so a consumer could actually compare products. Then an implication is made that your warranty will be voided if you use anything else. This seems to me to be purely a marketing ploy and may be in violation of a law somewhere (Magnuson-Moss?). But their tactics work - if I had a Kubota I'd probably use their fluids. ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-29          87177

Another clue: I was surfing through the International Kubota web site and got the clear impression that you can only get UDT in other markets.

Super UDT seems to be a purely North American occurrence. ....

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Art White
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2004-05-29          87189

The super UDT is a better fluid to be used in the colder climates. ....

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Chief
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2004-05-29          87197

You can look up the MSDS information and it should tell you who manufactures the fluid and get specs. from there. ....

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Chief
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2004-05-29          87198

The FUD tactic flew right over my head. ;o) What does this accronym stand for pray tell? LOL! ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-29          87203

FUD=Fear,Uncertainty and Doubt. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-29          87215

Where do you look up the MSDS? No hits on msds dot com and no relevent MSDS hits on Kubota's web site either. ....

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DRankin
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2004-05-30          87262

Kubota does not seem to publish the specs.... maybe one of our dealer friends has the numbers. ....

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Chief
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2004-05-30          87269

I sent off an email to Kubota requesting the MSDS sheets for the UDT & Super UDT. Should be interesting to see how long it takes them to respond. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-05-30          87273

It would be interesting if one of you Kubota owners would send them an email asking them point blank if your warranty would be voided if you used JD Hy-Gard or LV Hy-Gard in your Kubota and had an HST failure. I was going to ask them but they ask for model and dealer Name and assorted stuff that an owner would need to provide. ....

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oneace
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2004-05-30          87274

I will try to find the msds at work on Tuesday. we should have it since we sell it and OSHA say any chemical you have in you place of business you are "SUPPOSED" to have the msds on it. ....

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n88wrl
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2004-08-21          94045

Here's a stupid question - what color is the HST oil? I've got 12 hours on my 3130HST was checking fluids this morning. Hard to see the HST oil level - the dipstick 'looks' wet, but is the oil really clear? ....

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oneace
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2004-08-21          94054

Kubota's hyd fluid is all but completely clear. ....

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bobodude
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 32 Oakley, Calif and Garnerville, Nv
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2004-08-23          94199

Don't hold your breath waiting for Kubota to respond to an email. I have emailed their support twice trying to get a list of Kubota "authorized" implements for the BX23 and nada. I am very dis-pleased with their support and next time I'm at the dealer I will express my dis-satisfaction. As far as the Super UDT color, yes, mine looks nearly clear also. Maybe a hint of yellow but not much. ....

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bobodude
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 32 Oakley, Calif and Garnerville, Nv
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2004-08-23          94201

Ok falks, the plot is really getting thick here on this Super UDT. I contacted the MSDS registry which is really the 3E Company out of Carlsbad, Calif. Our company has a contract to get spec sheets on chemicals. Well wouldn't ya know it, Kubota Super UDT does not come up on their lists. Only Kubota UDT and of coarse it is not made by Kubota. The contact told me that Kubota apparently contracts with either Valvoline or Sonoco to produce the UDT. Now the spec sheet that she sent me has even a bigger twist. The UDT looks like a modified 10-30w oil made by Kendall/Amalie. So the Super UDT has again avoided detection. Has the Kubota SS men infiltrated the 3E company? One can only suspect..... ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-23          94208

You are reinventing the wheel here. This research was done over 2 months ago and posted in this thread. ....


Link:   UDT vs Super UDT

 
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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-08-23          94212

Thanks chief, what would we do with out you here?(not being sarcastic) ....

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Foozer
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3 Cleves, Ohio
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2010-07-19          172403

Matt, I asked my Kubota service guy how much the UDT fluid costs and he said $84.27 for 5 gallons. After I told him I had 'sticker shock' he said I could also use the following:
John Deere Hy-Gard
Mobil 429
Valvoline 303
This is not a plug for Tractor Supply but I did checked with them and they have ACCEL 303 Tractor Hydraulic Transmission Fluid, $26.99 for 5 gallons.
My service guy said that this will work! ....

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bristan8
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 69 Camden NSW, Australia
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2010-07-19          172411

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 87177
Another clue: I was surfing through the International Kubota web site and got the clear impression that you can only get UDT in other markets. Super UDT seems to be a purely North American occurrence.


That is correct here in Australia. I can only purchase UDT.
I have one of the newest model kubotas (b2320). The kubota manual says that either udt or super udt may be used. The lubricants section of the manual however is clearly a stick on section covering the original printing on the page. I carefully peeled this section away as I was curious to read what was underneath. I was not surprised to see an identical panel except that the lubricant specified was super udt with no mention of udt. I would say that kubota have made a conscious decision not to market the super udt over here.
I would prefer to use the super udt which was in the tractor from new. When it was replaced with udt I noticed the HST pedal became sluggish in returning and at times I have to kick the reverse pedal to stop the tractor. Searching with google I found that the super udt is actually a thinner oil than udt, so this may explain the difference. The local dealer had no idea that super udt existed. I understand that super udt is better for very cold climates and maybe that is why they dont sell it here. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2010-07-19          172412

Foozer;
That thread is six years old.
$16.85 per gallon isn't really out of line for the fluid that your owners manual recommends.
I just bought some Deere Lo-vis Hy Gard for pretty near the same price.
Kubota recommends the super UDT for the same reason Deere recommends the Hy-Gard, it's what works best in their tractors. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2010-07-19          172417

Amazing how a good oil thread just keeps going. Which reminds me, anybody heard from Mark lately? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2010-07-20          172423

Hope all's well down there Randy, Mark popped his head into a thread on the 55 mph speed limit the end of May, haven't seen him since. Doesn't mean he's not keeping a quiet eye on things though.

Probably just busy with 1st Division duties. ;)


Best of luck. ....

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Foozer
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3 Cleves, Ohio
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2010-07-20          172427

Thanks! I didn't realize that thread was so old!
After speaking to 4 different service departments in our area, I got 4 different answers regarding the differences between UDT and other manufacturers hydraulic fluid. One of them said the viscosity of the UDT is 'thinner' than the other brands which makes it a better choice if you use your machine during the Winter months. The only common comment from all 4 was that the other brands 'will work'. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2010-07-22          172472

Randy.... I be fine (mostly). As Mark Twain once said... rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Super UDT: I found that nothing really, truly cross-references with S/UDT. I tried those cross-reference fluids with my BX and with my RTV. They didn't run the same.

....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2010-07-22          172476

Murf, things are going pretty well as of late. My oldest daughter starts college next month and with the help of the district attorney I have been able to get some peace on the mountain. :O) After a lenghty felony arson, drug, and game poaching prosecution, I believe the dirtbags get the message now.

Mark, great to hear from you! Been a long time. Hope you and Murf are doing well. ....

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