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Which Tractor JD 3320 MF 1540 Kubota L4400 NH TC40A

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143767

Did lots of researh in one month, Test drive JD3320(no 990 onsite), MF 1540, KB L4400, NH TC40A, best feeling is MF 1540 with 12x12 trans with FEL. But all the local deals want to charge $2000 more than the South States. I am in NY. And all of them did not intend to change the numbers:-(
Now the time is up to make decision, finally a dealer from 60miles away give a reasonable quota on Kioti DK40SE 12x12 trans with FEL and grill guard, $18900, free shipping.
it is 4000 less than the local MF dealer quota on MF 1540.
Plus Kioti has one year more warranty on powertran and 10% down payment less. I am not familiar with the brand but look the reviews here seems quality is not bad at all. The only thing I don't like is the weight 4200lb, 1000lb more than above 4 models, if pull a two bottom plow or a 6' tiller even worse. I am not not 100% it is OK on my 16 arces well drain muck land or not, have to make decision in couple days, need help!!! Thanks first.


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-07-17          143768

Sounds like the dealers are sensing you're in a crunch to make a decision--sort of like buying a new boat on a nice summer day.

IMHO you will grow tired of the gear models so stick to a hydro.

Bottom line no one can honestly "help" you make your decision. You know your situation best. Go with your gut and pick the one that screams "buy me". :)

Otherwise it wil be: "Coulda, woulda, shoulda".
....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143769

That is ture. But I still want people with muck land experience can give me some 'final' hints. :-) ....

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Which Tractor JD 3320 MF 1540 Kubota L4400 NH TC40A

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-17          143770

I live next to one of the biggest areas of drained muck land there is, the Holland Marsh in Ontario Canada.

Unfortunately there seems to be 2 schools on thought here, either tiny stuff on big tall wheels, as tall & skinny as they can get, or monster 4X4's on duals at all 4 corners for primary field work, as a utility machine most have a Kubota or Kioti with standard R1's on it.

Best of luck. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143771

R1 sounds a must to me too, couple wet spots on the trail. thank you very much.Can not afford a monster now. Plus it is only 16 acres :-) ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2007-07-17          143772

I agree with Murf, you want tall and skinny R1's. Get the model with the tallest front tires you can. Hydro's are more convenient for loader work, but in my opinion, a gear unit will out pull a hydro. This statement may bring arguements from others and that is why I said "in my opinion". I have a hydro on my compact tractor and wouldn't go any other way. In a farm style application I'd go gear. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-17          143773

Kangaroo31,

The extra weight you get with the Kioti isn't all bad. You'll have some trouble with it when it comes to mowing a finished lawn, due to the tire tracks and compaction of the soil, but if your tractor won't be used for mowing around the house, you've got nothing to worry about here.

Extra weight is always good when working with a loader, or when pulling a plow. You'll have better stability with a full load in the bucket, and better traction when pulling.

If you are purchasing this tractor primarily for loader work, I'm sure you'd enjoy the hydro drive a whole lot more, but this decision entirely yours to make.

The Kioti tractor sounds as though it could be a real workhorse. Personally, I like the weight you get with it, especially if you're planning on doing a lot of tillage work. Pulling a plow, or a cultivator, requires two things.....traction....(weight and good tires).......and plenty of horsepower. All the power in the world is useless without some way to put it to the ground. Should you decide to go with a lighter tractor, you may find it necessary to add additional weight.

There's always a compromise involved. No one tractor is perfectly suited to every purpose. You'll have to weigh out the situation and determine how you plan to use your tractor the most often. Find a tractor that best suits your primary goals, and then see if you can't compromise slightly from there.

My only suggestion would be that you don't compromise when it comes to the features you'd enjoy having the most......such as hydro transmission, power steering, or 4-wheel drive.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-07-17          143774

The big limiting factor here is Kangaroo's soil conditions.

Muckland.

For those not familiar with the term, picture working on a 25' deep pile of very well rotted manure. Traction is NOT related to weight as much as it is on putting deep cleats well into the soil and making it easier for the tractor to move forward, than it is to spin the tires.

In most muckland situations, you will smell Chinese food before you get deep enough to hit soil ground.

The only caution I would offer with the 12X12 tranny is that you might not be able to shift fast enough to save your bacon if you hit a soft spot.

Best of luck.


....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143775

Thanks,candoarms. Right now in 2-3 years, the major work is field. vege growing and start a nursery stocks. I have another 20 acres woods. Weight is good for soild ground, but the land I want to work with is Muckland. Here is another 'but', the muck land looks not that soft. I thought it is like other huge field with 15' topsoil, but neibors told me it is kind of shallow, only 3-4'. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143776

Murf:
I thought it is like other huge field with 15' topsoil, but neibhors told me it is kind of shallow, only 3-4' max. It looks sit on the bank of the accient lake. In this situation, what is your suggestion?
And you think the hydro could response much quick than 12 gears if something happen unexpect, or 8 gears? Hydro version is only 1K more, but I think gear verion may last longer generally. Am I right?
Thanks,

....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-17          143778

Kangaroo,

If you are facing heavy muck, you might be better off with very wide flotation tires, or even duals.

Up here in North Dakota, farmers have a very difficult time getting into their fields to spray for weeds when the conditions are wet. This forces them to either hire an aircraft crop duster, or go to very large sprayers with WIDE tires. In muddy conditions, even wide tires don't do much good, due to the fact that they leave deep impressions in the ground, making it all but impossible to harvest the crop in the Fall.

It would be interesting to know more about your climate and the crops you plan to grow in these conditions. Maybe I'm not the person to give you any advice, as I have no idea how the other farmers in your area might approach this problem.

If you have any neighbors who farm, you might be better served by asking for their advice. Those who have experience working the soil in your area will likely have a pile of information and suggestions to share with you. Through trial and error.....mostly error.....they can probably save you a whole lot of trouble, and money.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-07-17          143779

Kangaroo, the big question you need answered is what is UNDER that 3' or 4' of muck.

If you have clay below it, it will hold water and be a real PITA if not tile drained, If you have sand under it (like we do here) then it won't be too bad.

It sounds like you're a rookie at this muckland stuff, if so, IMHO, then yes, you want a hydro, again IMHO, you will be moe likely to chew up a clutch than you will be to break a (properly operated) hydro.

Joel had some good advice, go ask a few of your neighbours, or even just look at what they're using.

Best of luck. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143780

Thanks, candoarms.Neighbors and local dealers' answers are mixed. Form my observing, they use both. Either R1 or R4, traction or flotation. May be R1W is my best choice, but no model have that choice. :-(
Another dummy question, can I use R4 front tires and R1 rear tires together in my situation?? the DK40SE I am looking, the front R1 only 8"(8-16/6) and R4 is 10"(10x16.5/6) wide. And change front tires sounds little easier because FEL can lift.

....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
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2007-07-17          143781

Murf, you are right, I am a "brand new" rookie on farm.:-)
May be I am the first guy use hydro on the field in my area.;-)
Thanks a lot. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-17          143783

Kangaroo,

If you don't mind me asking, in what part of the country do you live? I might be able to offer some better advice, if I know what you're up against for weather, such as rainfall, snow, soil, etc.

Do you have any livestock? Will you be using your tractor for haying, or for feeding livestock through the winter months? Calving pens and feed lots can be miserable to operate in, especially in the Spring, when the snow begins to melt.

I guess I'd like to know more about you and your situation.....in other words,get to know you a little better.......before giving you any advice that might be way off base here.


As for mixing the tires.....generally speaking, this is a big NO-CAN-DO! If your tractor has 4-wheel drive, the outside diameter is critical to the proper operation of your tractor. If the outside diameter of the tires is not to specs, you'll find that one axle will be doing all the work, while the other axle will be dragging you down.

Never mix the tires on any 4-wheel drive tractor, (or any other 4-wheeler) as it will cause great damage to either the machine, or the tires --- likely both.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Joel
....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143784

Joel
The land I bought is in orange county NY, 1.5hr NW of NYC. It is cold, the major product here is Onion. I plan to do vegetable, some hardy bush and tree seedlings growing. I don't have plan do anything from end of Nov to next end of Mar like most of farmer here. It will be my side-biz for the begin 3-4 years. No any livestock.
The rainfall here is kind of even. But last 3 years I heared 2 times big floodings, usally happens once about 10 year , all in early spring. The muck land looks can hold water very well, back of my land is a small river. If ditches works well, normally no flooding concern. It is a vacant land over 25 years, right now it covers by 4-5' weeds. One old shallow well onsite, don't know what is GPH it can deliver yet. Hopefully, these information are useful to you. I like to do organic farming, but looks it is too hard for rookie.
Thanks a lot.
....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-17          143788

Kangaroo31,

Thank you very much for providing the additional information.

You have a small river out back! Perfect. Creating some good drainage shouldn't be a problem for you, provided, of course, that there isn't a large hill, or an outcropping of rock between your land and the river. A small ditch, just a few feet wide, should do the trick.

Generally speaking, a loader bucket isn't the best tool for this job, but if the land is friendly to you, it might be possible.

If you have a friend who does survey work, you might be able to have him come over and give you some idea where to place your ditch, without having to move much soil. Otherwise, you might be able to use a laser level on your own, using an assistant and a good measuring stick.

When digging your drainage ditch, make sure that you don't dig it so deep that you lose any moisture you wish to keep. For example, you may wish to hold an inch of rainfall in reserve, for your crops.

The nice thing about your situation, is that you also have the ability to irrigate when you need to. It may therefore be possible to entirely drain your fields, due to the fact that you have a river nearby........provided, of course, that it's legal for you to take water for this purpose in the State of New York.

With proper drainage, I'd say that you could select from nearly any tractor model or style you want.

I still suggest R1 Agriculture tires, but after that, all other options are entirely up to you. Proper drainage is the key to making a whole lot of other options available to you.

As for organic farming......you might be surprised at how easy it can be. Since you won't be allowed to use any chemicals for pests or weeds, you'll want to make sure you properly rotate your crops, and leave enough room between the rows to do regular tilling, or cultivating.

Rotating your crops is very important. Insects that attack your corn, for example, will survive in the soil and attack the next year's crop. There are other insects that attack other crops, all of which can be kept under check with simple measures.

There's a whole lot more involved in this, but none of it is too difficult. It just takes a lot of planning and proper documentation.

Joel ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-17          143795

"Generally speaking, a loader bucket isn't the best tool for this job, but if the land is friendly to you, it might be possible. "
Thanks, Joel. I am just wild thinking may be I can use it to dig ditch. Sounds I am not the first people.:-)
Talking about irrigating, may I ask what a kind of pumps people often use? gas motor, electric with a partable generator, or pto? 4650GPH is enough for 3-16 acres? I am really no idea how much water that old well can deliver.
here is the well photo.

....

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Kioti Tractors Which Tractor JD 3320 MF 1540 Kubota L4400 NH TC40A
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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-07-17          143799

Having worked on the gulf coast of Miss and Louisiana with their muckland (I live in Michigan) for awhile, I know the importance of having tracks, preferably rubber, on a machine. The best thing for digging a ditch under muky conditions is a light weight excavator probaly in the 7,500 to 10,000 lb. class. 10,000 lb. might be getting too heavy but it will the outreach. You can buy rubber track kits for the popular tractors. The end result will look like a Caterpillar Challenger. The kits are expensive but offer excellent tractability. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-17          143801

Kangaroo,

Assuming that you rotate through your crops, rather than attempt to irrigate the entire 16 acres at one time.......you should be able to handle most of your irrigation needs with a 2 inch pump, powered by a 5 HP gasoline engine.

Of course, it's always best to irrigate small sections at a time, due to the fact that you'll need to move your hoses and pump in order to do the next section anyway. That is, of course, unless you install a permanent irrigation system.

Generally speaking, permanent irrigation systems aren't necessary anywhere east of the Mississippi. During the dry years, a temporary system will suffice.

As for the output from your well, I'd worry about that only when your river runs dry.

I can't use my well water for irrigation purposes, or for drinking. The high mineral content will destroy the soil. (We use the well water for showers, dishes, flushing the toilets, laundry, etc.) Like you, I have a small stream running through my pasture that I use for irrigation purposes. It hasn't been necessary yet, as we've had nothing but rain so far this year.

It's during these wet periods that I fill my 625 gallon storage tank for irrigation use, when necessary. However, this small amount of water is only sufficient for a small garden. For 16 acres, you're going to be better off using pumps, pulling water from the river, provided you don't have to lift the water too high.

Every pump has vertical lift limits, both for the suction and the discharge side. This will be the most important thing to consider before deciding on a pump.

Joel


....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-18          143812

Thanks, earthwrks. I may need a local ditch company help me out to dig main ditchs, They don't have time now. Only some short pieces of old ditchs I can find. No farm 25 years make them dispeared. I just want to play with 3 acres this year, I plan to pick a relatively high spot, dig some shallow ditch with fel for tempoary perpose. Rubber track looks not use on tractor. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-18          143813

Thank a lot Joel. Looks others talking about KB L2800/3400 PTO issue, looks a independent PTO is must to me if main job is tillgate. With a ~40HP and 32-34HP PTO, do you think 6' tiller is too much? or give make it easy just pick a 5' one.
I try to rent a 5' bush hog from United Rental, they said it is very hard for me to connect, they said better rent the tractor with it together. That make me think how hard I can connect a two bottom moldboard plow and tiller to the hitch by myself in the feature:-( .Is the 3-pt Quick-Change system very helpful? NorthTools sell them $199, see the link below. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-18          143837

Get 2 out of state quotas reasonable prices finally.
One is above I mentioned but a HST version DK40SE 19900 (62miles away), other is Kubota L3830HST, $20300 with 723 FEL include shipping(220miles away). Hard to make decision now. may be I need a coin.;-) ....

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earthwrks
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2007-07-18          143840

IMHO those quick change systems are PIA. You won't find two pieces of equipment that have the same spread measurement between the lower pins. And unless you are missing a limb, anyone can hook up a 3pt hitch--they may be referring to the PTO shaft, which isn't a big deal. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-07-18          143843

Once a quick hitch is set up to work with all your implements they can be darned useful if you change implements very often. Getting there can be a challenge though. Several of my implements had to be modified to work with my JD I-Match hitch but I'm glad to have spent the time and effort to make it work. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-07-19          143857

EW; No, I'm not missing a limb, but cannot take a step without a walker, so a quick hitch is quite usefull to me.
KW; You folks probably get tired of me tooting the horn for Land Pride Equipment,(no, I don't own any Land Pride
Stock) but their quick hitch has an adjustable top hook that can be changed in seconds to fit other dimension equipment, no need to cut and weld on attachments. Deere of course wants their I-Match to only fit their attachments. To keep me from having to get off the tractor to hook up a PTO shaft their automatic hookup looks interesting, but not untill they get with the program and offer an adjustable top hook. Frank. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-19          143859

Kangaroo,

At some point you will probably need a tiller, but I don't believe you'll need one right away.

When working with soil that hasn't been broken up in over 25 years, your first task will be to spray it with Roundup, so that the heavy vegetation dies. Roundup kills all vegetation, clear to the root, making it possible to break up the soil without leaving any huge balls of root mass to break up later. Spray it Roundup, then let it stand for two full weeks before attempting to plow it up.

With 16 acres to work up, I believe you'll need a plow, cultivator, and/or disc.

You may not need a tiller until the next growing season.

Here's a general formula for matching your tractor to a tiller........

For tractors under 20hp, you'll want a 4ft. tiller. For tractors 20-40hp, you can go with a 5ft tiller. For tractors over 40hp, a 6ft tiller will work fine.

There's a bit of overlap here for hydrostatic tractors, as ground speed is the determining factor. Since hydro tractors can go very slow, it may be possible to go outside these limits slightly.

At any rate, I believe your first purchase should include a fairly large tractor (35hp or larger), a gallon or two of Roundup herbicide, a sprayer, and a plow. Next year you'll need a cultivator or disc, and then a tiller. It is not necessary to purchase new implements, either. It's very difficult to wear out a plow. Used farm implements are easy to find, and you won't have to spend much to get them.

If you decide to use a tiller first, be prepared to spend a whole lot of time removing the tangled wire, rope, twine, rocks, and metal. You have no idea what might be laying around on that vacant land. You might even find some artifacts from the Revolutionary War!

Joel ....

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kwschumm
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2007-07-19          143862

I agree with Joel with the exception that Round-Up will kill all vegetation. It doesn't work too well on blackberry or scotch broom and I'm sure some others. Those types might brown up for awhile but they'll be back. I use 2,4-d (crossbow) on that stuff.

Frank, an adjustable top-hook on the quick hitch sounds useful but it won't help if there's not enough clearance between the implements top pin and frame, or if the bottom pins are the wrong width, or if the top and bottom pins aren't in the same vertical plane. Those are the incompatibilities I found. That said, if I was shopping for a new one I'd look for one with an adjustable/extendable top hook. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-20          143890

Life is beautiful, because everyday is a different day. Today is my closing date for that land. Opps, suppose to be. Because agent and lawyer promised a month ago, they even ask me want to close early or not. Now I am ready and they told me the seller is out of country, must go to the US embassy to have them notarized and then send them back. Sorry for the delay. No argue no complain, no other choice except wait. At least one week:-( ....

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kangaroo31
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Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-20          143891

Thanks Joel and kwschumm. But 2 things I am confused.
I think round-up is a kind of avoid chemical if potencially want to do organic farming. Am I right? like the chemicals for pests control? If rules broken, you can not apply for organic certification for five years. May be round-up is an exception?
Other thing is the "For tractors under 20hp, you'll want a 4ft. tiller. For tractors 20-40hp, you can go with a 5ft tiller. For tractors over 40hp, a 6ft tiller will work fine. ", here we are talking about Gross HP or PTO HP?
Side by side compare kioti dk40se hst and kubota L3830 hst:
Gross HP is 41:38 and independent PTO HP is 32.5:30.5. Looks close. Dose this difference can make bigger different on final results?
Thanks,
....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-20          143896

Kangaroo31,

I have no idea what the current land prices might be like in New York State. I'm guessing that an acre of land isn't cheap.

There's a land auction coming up here in North Dakota. A rancher near Ashley is selling every acre he owns.

Here's a link to the website, where you can see pictures of the property.

He's divided his land into four separate parts. Tract 1 includes 520 acres. Tract 2 includes 160 acres. Tract 3 includes 159 acres. Tract 4 includes 299.5 acres.

If purchased as a complete unit, the buyer will be getting approximately two square miles of land.......less the land that has been taken for roads.

You can watch to see how much this land sells for. You can even watch the auction live, as if you were there when it sells.

The first link is to the actual auction site. The picture link will take you to the auction brochure, which contains photos of the property to be sold.

I wish you all the best with your land purchase.

Joel





Annual taxes on this land are about $2.86 per acre, or less. ....


Link:   Land Auction -- Ashley, North Dakota

 
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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-20          143898

Thanks, Joel. the pure ready to go farm land price NW within 2hr from NYC. Is around 3.5-4k per acre. 50% increased in the passed 5 years. Same place the land can use for build residential house is about 15-20k per arce. 100% increased in the passed 5 years.
Tax rate is like ND.
....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-20          143900

Kangaroo31,

I'm just guessing here.........but I believe the land for sale in Ashley, North Dakota, will probably sell for somewhere around 500 dollars per acre.

Land prices in North Dakota have increased in recent years as well, due to the higher prices of grain, soybeans, canola, sunflowers, and potatoes. When crop commodity prices increase, it also makes the land they're grown on more valuable.

I'd like to own more land someday, but I'm afraid I missed my opportunity to buy when it was cheap! The push to replace imported oil with Ethanol has created a tremendous market opportunity for the corn growers. I truly believe that this venture will prove to be a failure, mostly due to the fact that our own federal government is attempting to run it. Those Federal boys have never been good at managing anything they've touched.

Joel ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-07-20          143905

Joel, looks you like full market-driven. I agree with your comment on Congressman:-) They are too professional. Look at the cost of election. But here is the issue, besides the social cost, othertning is who execute the law. I believe every law is very reasonable at the time it create. But when time passed, it will be dead because executer changed. Every social system has delay. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-03          144320

Kangaroo31,

I was looking through the auction notices and found something that you might find interesting.

Check out lot #1 of the following auction, to be held in Indiana.

__________________________________


2003 Case IH model JX55 maxxima wide front, front wheel assist diesel tractor w/ ROPS platform seat, w/ model LX132 loader & 6’ bucket, approx. 120 hours, tires still read the size on treads, one owner

___________________________________


You might be able to save a pile of money, which you could put toward the purchase of your implements.

Joel ....


Link:   Case IH JX55 4x4 120 hours

 
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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-08-04          144340

Delay on closing. Finally be told coming week should have everything ready to go.
Joel, need a new one for new farmer first time. But as you mention the front tire tread width, I just realized how import it for the field work only couple days before. :-(
Test drive a Kubota MX5000 today, like it very much. It has 52.2" front tire tread width, I can get 44-46" real space between the wheels that can easy handle 3 rows onetime.
With FEL and Canopy<22K free shipping.
I really can not find any data of Deere, MF and New Holland models the front tire tread width on their websites, anyone can tell me which model of Deere, MF and New Holland can compare with Kubota MX5000?
So far I see Kioti DK45SE close, 53.9" front tire tread width almost same price range. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-05          144343

Kangaroo31,

I know nothing about raising vegetable crops, such as onions, celery, carrots, etc. My experience is limited to the raising of small grains, such as wheat, durum, barley, and oats. In recent years, farmers up in this area have slowly been switching over to row crops, such as corn and sunflowers.

A special setup has to be used for row crops, due to the fact that these crops must be cultivated to remove the weeds between the rows, after the crops come up. We have to set the tire width to the proper spacing, so that we can stay between the rows while cultivating. We also use narrow tires for this job.

I have no idea how to set the spacing when dealing with rows of onions, celery, or carrots.

Aside from the spacing between the tires, I also ask that you check the actual tire widths........that is, the width of each individual tire. You'll want to be sure that your tires aren't so wide that you won't be able to drive down between the rows.

It sounds to me as though you are going to have a lot of fun with this. I wish you the best. I hope you make a very good living raising crops, so that you can escape from the crowds, traffic, and the numerous idiots that occupy the big cities.

Joel ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-08-05          144346

Kangaroo; Joel gave you a good rundown on the tread spacing issue. I think we need to go back to the differences in why specific tractor models were built. "Compact Utility" tactors were built for as the term says "Compact" reasons, to be used for most any application where tread width adjustment was not an important issue to acomadate row crops. They were purposely built with a narrow stance to be more usefull in cramped quarters. Row crop tractors on the other hand were built to accomadate row crop farming where tread width adjustment was easily changed usually by sliding the rear wheel in or out on the rear axle shaft. The front was either a tricycle type or an adjustable wide front. The most common row width today in corn and bean country is thirty inch spacing between rows, so the tread with of the tractors is centered on sixty inches. Dual rear wheels are usually left on year round anymore for safety reasons to help prevent rollovers, the duals are centered on a 120 inch spacing so they run between the next rows out without danmaging the crop. I'm with Joel in knowing nothing about raising vegatable crops, especially row widths, etc. So you need to first find out what row widths are used in truck gardens and what row width equipment, (Planters, cultivators, etc.) are comonly available for vegatable use then get a tractor that is either fixed tread width that will fit those rows or get a row crop tractor to be able to adjust the tread width to fit the equipment you will be using. Frank. ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-08-06          144377

Thanks, Joel and Hardwood. It is a 101 class to me. Learn a lot from you people here. Basiclly I try to grow small vegetables, they need bed but not a high one. 2-3" is enough. 3 rows with a 12" space normally. So many "unusal" requirements here. Muck land,4wd, narrow space between the rows, light weigt <4000lb, wide front tread >52", 28" rear tire, 50HP 44pto, QA HD fel, higher ground clearance >15", price <22K. So far looks only Kubota MX5000 fit. Just want to check any other brand has model very close it? ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-08-14          144665

Finally the property will close this Friday.
Still something confusing here need help:
1. The weight compare Kubota MX5000 and Kioti DK45, Kioti said 4200lb with AG tire, Kubota did not say 3500lb with AG tire or not. Anybody know that?
2. Anyone use Woods Disk Harrow before? It is sealed ball bearing but said midium duty.
3. Organic or not. This is a headache now. My friend relatives own the supermarkets, they warned me the field likw 16 acres size if not go for Organic,is no way to survive in this area. Looks so many things need to prepare before go organic. :-( ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-08-14          144667

Kangroo31,
If I repeat something I shared with you on your other threads or someone above me has please forgive me. Produce is very close to me as I have raise some for about 10 years. I just placed for sale ads for the specialty equipment I own.

There is so much you need to know from what varieties will not only do well there but will sell. You can have a great crop but no buyers just by planting the wrong variety of the crop. There is a lot of produce sold in my area to locals and tourists (big tourist area, very big) and the variety sells the produce. A very sharp farmer here has 25 acres of a crop being advertised at “X” variety as that is the one asked for. I know very well it is not what he planted but it looks like it and is as close to that variety as there is. There are two big produce crops here there is a variety of each most people want and expect, neither has been planted in years. You will be surprised how much what people perceive is not true. You will also be surprised how the desire for a certain variety will can vary. You must know your market.

Harvesting equipment is the most important equipment and the spacing or width of it drives all other equipment. As it seems you want to plant more than one kind of crop, but sure all crops will work with those row width. The more you vary row width the more wasted time on setting up equipment you will have. You will need more equipment than I see you asking about. Some you will need duplicates of.

Be sure of your market. Then be sure of your market. It will not be what you think it will be unless you or friends control it. Find the farmers markets near you (I would visit two or more) and walk them listening and asking questions. You will hear what varieties people want, what does well and so forth. You will get a feel for what sells and what is not profitable.

Planning the layout, access roads in it and such is very important.

See you are planning on this part time for 3 or 4 years. Does your main job allow you to take off when you need to? When produce is ready it is ready. No waiting for the weekend to harvest or get to market. It can be ready today, rain tonight and be lost tomorrow. Is refrigeration required? What is expected in packing it? Will you need machines to wash it or clean it?

If you will be having your own produce stand you want to sell more than you can grow as there is no way to sell produce and only the crop or two you have ready or the stand will not be stocked to keep people stopping. People driving by must be able to see the produce from their auto; they do not like normal stores. They want open air stands. If you are selling direct to the public watch price wars with your neighbors. Watch the way your package the product. If you are selling to the public be careful when saying per “bushel” or per “pound” unless you are measuring each one very carefully. Per pound normally requires certified scales.

There is so much more you need to, no must know. Find one or two farmers who have retired or just the kind hearted type who will share with you. Any coffee or such you buy for them will be worth much more than the cost. Oh, don’t’ forget liability insurance. For is anyone gets sick from your produce or hurt while buying, who they going sue?

I really wish you well. kt ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-14          144668

Kangaroo,

I believe your relatives are slightly mistaken, although I do know for a fact that you'll make WAY more money going organic.

North Dakota is a duck and goose hunting paradise. People from all over the nation come up here during hunting season. I've had a chance to talk to many of them over the years.

One fella was here from Connecticut. He had his dogs, his friends, and nearly a thousand goose decoys with him. When we started chatting over the morning coffee, I discovered that he is a vegetable farmer. That's all he does for a living, and he farms just 10 acres.

You can make a good living farming vegetables. There's a lot of money in it, mainly because it is so labor intensive. If you go organic, you'll not be able to use any chemicals, and you'll have to keep a lot of records. Your costs go up, because you'll have to do a lot of weeding by hand; or with your tractor and specially adapted implements, set up to handle the row widths.

Have you visited a vegetable farm in your area? If not, call your county extension agent and arrange for a tour of one. Your county ag extension agent will gladly help you through a lot of this......and the advice is free of charge.

There are many agriculture colleges in the country that would be able to help you, as well. Maybe you have ties to one of the local ag schools? Just a thought.

Can't help you with the weight issues between the different tractors, but I'm not so sure that the difference in weight will really be much of an issue. Your biggest concern will be your ability to set your wheel spacings correctly, so that you can travel down between your rows. And since I have no idea what that wheel spacing would be, you're going to have to find someone else to help you with that.

I hope your land agreement is closed soon. It would be nice to know that all this preparation work hasn't been wasted.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-08-14          144676

I think you better do a little investigating.

If I'm not mistaken 16 acres will not leave enough room for the required setbacks if the area around this land is farmed using traditional, non-organic methods.

Since "organic" requires all products be free of herbicides and pesticides (amongst a VERY long of things) being too close to another field which is sprayed will eliminate your fields too.

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-14          144681

Kangaroo,

Murf is correct. You may be too close to other farm land in order to qualify as an "Organic Farm".

Lots of issues to consider here. I highly suggest that you pay a visit to your local agronomist at the county extension office.

Joel ....

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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-08-14          144683

Kthompson,Joel and Muff:
I realy appriciate the suggestions you put. I also realized I am too rush. So many things need to prepare and research. Buy the property just first step. I will go to our county extension office first. Visit more local people to get the whole picture of the operation. About organic possiblity, one of the advantage of this land is it is at least 2000' away from any traditional farm land.Lot of trees in the between. The only piece next to my land is vacant too.
Here is a the aerial view in the attach link. brown line is that small river, bank is 4 feet high to the water now. blue line is property line. red line is exist trails to access that open area. red star is that well. yellow line is the trace of run off water. in open area, little dark green spots are little lower than other place.

Wildlife problems is very serious here too. Because three sides of the open area have trees, I think I may put deer fance direct on the tree, only south part need some poles. Don't know it will works or not if use 6 line tension fence like the url below. or Electric deer fence? ....


Link:   Fence & Aerial view

 
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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-16          144753

Kangaroo31,

You've found yourself a very nice place. Thank you for the pictures. I don't have a clue how you did that, but I like the overlay you put on it pointing out all the various points of interest. Nicely done.

As for deer and other animals doing damage to your crops, I thought I'd offer a few suggestions.

The deer won't be your biggest problem. Though they do eat quite a bit, there are relatively few of them compared to raccoons, birds, and squirrels. These many (thousands) smaller animals will cause you the biggest problems, by far.

Here in North Dakota, our fields are far too large to protect with fences. The cost of fencing is just too prohibitive. Instead, our farmers have found that they can use a propane cannon to keep away the deer, raccoons, and even many bird species.

Don't get alarmed......these cannons do not fire any projectiles! hehehe. They work on a timer, and simply go "BANG" every few minutes.

Here's a great piece pertaining to the proper use of Propane Cannons.

Joel ....


Link:   Propane Cannon Wildlife Control

 
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kangaroo31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 120 Orange County, NY
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2007-08-17          144772

Joel, KTom,Murf and other friends here, after almost one month delay, the closing had done 2 hours ago. Cost me <2300 per acre. It is a good price in our area.

Joel, the cannon must be a very efficient way to control the wildlifes. But I am afraid if I use that, all my neighbours will like to kill me.:-)

About map, you can use microsoft
http://maps.live.com/?vendor=google&pkw=map_microsoft&s_kwcid=map%20microsoft|771011311
They show more detail than google. Find out your place. Click "PrtSc" key on your keyboard. Paste it into photoshop or other graphic software to edit. ....

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