4610 vs. 4720: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review 4610 vs. 4720: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 11-05-2004, 10:09 Post: 99868
momeyer



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 4610 vs. 4720

Gents,

Am considering upgrading my '03 4610 with 62 hours,loader, and pallet forks to a new '05 4720 with like equipment. I know with such low hours it is not even broken in but, am concerned that the 4610 will be unable to lift 4X5 round haylage bales. Am sure that the 4720 will have enough oomph. Dealer has quoted me a price difference of $10,900. Any comments?

Regards,
Hank






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 11-05-2004, 10:42 Post: 99870
yooperpete



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 4610 vs. 4720

Guess I would first investigate the ratings of the tractors and find out for sure the weight of the bales. Maybe the 4720 isn't enough either or maybe you are OK. An earlier thread suggested these bales are real heavy. I don't know that is out of my field of experience. For $10,000.00 you could get a nice older BIG JD 2WD farm tractor. More equipment means more versatility.






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 11-05-2004, 10:42 Post: 99871
Billy

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 4610 vs. 4720

I'm pretty sure, if you check the loader specs, the 4610 will lift just as much as the 4720. With the proper amount of ballast, the 4610 will lift and carry a 4x5 round bale. Probably the best thing to do would be to carry one bale on the back and one on the front. Just be sure to leave the back one on until after you unload the front bale.

The 4720 has a lot more HP and torque but produces the same amount of hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is where you get your lifting power.






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 11-05-2004, 10:48 Post: 99873
momeyer



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Good point about the hydraulics. Need to look into that. Have had no problem picking up the dry 5X6 bales with the 4610, one in front and one in back. Haylage is probably 40% heavier, however. Probably should have confessed up front...actually my wife is advocating the trade. She doesn't like the Power Reverser and wants the hydro...I always end up doing the spade and grunt work anyway...go figure.

Hank






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 11-05-2004, 11:52 Post: 99882
denwood



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 4610 vs. 4720

The plus side, the hydro and more HP, hydro alone makes it worth switching. Down side no Yanmar engine in new one. Not that deere is bad but probably none are better than a Yanmar. Also a new model in its first year, can have more issues. If one of these tractors can't pick up your bales, it will be the 400x on the new machine. The breakout strength is when the hydraulics stop moving no matter how much weight you hang on the back. The 460 loader breakout is 3863 pounds and the new 400x breakout is 3506 pounds. They improve things by making them weaker, go figure. It is just the opposite of their skid loaders, whose breakout seems huge compared to years past.






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 11-05-2004, 12:25 Post: 99895
Billy

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 4610 vs. 4720

Well Hank, since you fessed up Wink yeah right

I'd go with the 4720 but first I'd also check to see if that 4610 would lift the bales you need to lift. Different types of hay weigh different. If so, the 4720 will too.

The $10,900 difference sounds a little steep. I'd try to talk him down 2 grand, at the least.






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 11-05-2004, 12:39 Post: 99897
JimP



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 4610 vs. 4720

Hey Billy - just reading through this thread and your comment on needing higher hydraulic pressure to lift heavier loads caught my eye. Are you sure about that?

My understanding of tractor hydraulic systems is that most run in the 2000-2250 PSI range for any size tractor. How much weight a loader could lift would be determined more by the diameter of the lift cylinders than the operating pressure of the hydraulic system. Larger diameter cylinders (along with a beefier loader frame) should be able to lift more weight.

With larger diameter cylinders, one should be more concerned with the GPM output of the built-in hydraulic pump, as it takes more fluid to move the piston the same linear distance. The same size GPM pump on a tractor with a loader with larger diameter lift cylinders equates to slower dump and recycle times.

So rather than looking at the difference is pressure between these two or any two tractors, one should be looking at the diameter of the lift cylinders and the GPM output of the hydraulic pump. I think those two factors will determine the lift capacity and speed of your loader, as opposed to hydraulic pressure.

Please correct me if I am wrong...






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 11-05-2004, 12:55 Post: 99898
Billy

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Jim, what I was referring to was the 4720 vs the 4610 and the 400X vs the 460 loader. Both tractors run the same hydraulic PSI, 2,500 and both loaders are almost identical. What I was trying to say is no matter how much HP or torque the tractors have, the lifting power will be the same. You can also change the lifting power by adjusting the relief valve but you might get into a bit of a bind if you adjust too much.

If my memory serves me correctly, the 4720 does have a higher GPM hydraulic pump. The higher GPM pump would not help with lifting power but only speed.






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 11-05-2004, 13:12 Post: 99899
JimP



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Hi Billy - Yes I totally agree. I guess it just must have been the way I read your original post with respect to the context of the original question on lift capacity.

"The 4720 has a lot more HP and torque but produces the same amount of hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is where you get your lifting power."

and from that my mind formed the conclusion that: higher pressure give you more lifting power!

which we both know for the most part is untrue. No harm, no foul -- we are both on the same page. Just didn't a new owner form the same wrong conclusion that I initially reached when I read your statement. Let my response be some education to some the newer users.

So to answer the original question: are the lift cylinders on the 400X loader the same diameter as on the 460? If so, then you are correct -- I wouldn't expect that loader to be be able to lift much more than what he already has with the 460 loader.






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 11-05-2004, 13:56 Post: 99900
denwood



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I'm still not sure eveyone is clear on lifting power. Higher pressure will definitly give more lifting power. Twice the pressure, twice the lift on identical loaders(you will probably break the loader), its just that you won't get a huge increase in pressure with tractors. cylinder size is bigger= more lift on IDENTICAL loaders but when you switch loader designs completely, loader geometry is important. Larger cylinders may not net more lift if the goemetry is different. Actually the 460 is stronger hydraulically than the 400x, unless the Deere literature is wrong, and I know it is at times.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

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Billy 5 | Chief 1 | denwood 2 | JimP 3 | momeyer 3 | plots1 1 | yooperpete 1 |




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