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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-04          97665

Hi guys,
I was mowing at the church tonight with my 855 and had the headlights on. They worked fine for about 1/2 hour then they went out. I checked the fuse and the 25amp fuse is melted in the fuse holder. It not only melted in the holder but through the holder. Any ideas on how to fix this?
Thanks


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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2004-10-04          97670

25A is a pretty big fuse just for headlights, I wouldn't have expected bigger than a 10A or so. Did the original fuse blow sometime in the past, to be subsequently replaced with a larger capacity fuse?

//greg// ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2004-10-05          97677

There may be a larger problem than fixing the fuse holder. Even a dead short in a circuit shouldn't melt a fuse holder. I'm guessing that the problem might be that the hot end of the holder itself somehow shorted.

Does any electrical on the tractor work now? I'm wondering because a 25A fuse might be the main fuse rather than the headlight fuse. It sounds like repair requires replacement of at least the holder and possibly the fuse. A kludged together solution might be to wire around the fuse block and run the circuit through an in-line fuse holder. I don't think I'd do that on somebody else's tractor though. ....

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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-05          97692

You know, I thought it was an awfully big fuse too but on the side where the labels are it shows the headlights with a 25a. It does have five headlights on it from the factory. Three in the hood and two on the fenders.

Do you guys think this is something I could attempt on my own or should I have the dealer do it? I don't want to burn anything else up.

Oh yeah, everything else electrical works fine. ....

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greg_g
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2004-10-05          97694

Unfortunately I can't read what you said after "Oh yeah...". I'd only recommend you tackle it yourself, if you're familiar with basic automotive-type electrical circuits - and know how to interpret multimeter readings. If yes, the VERY first thing to do is track down the short that caused the fuse to blow in the first place. Only then, should you proceed to repairing/replacing the fuse box.

//greg// ....

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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-13          98293

OK. I looked at it. I couldn't figure out what was wrong so I took it to the dealer. He looked at it and said the fuse block needed to be replaced so he replaced it. I decided to test the lights by driving the tractor home (20 min drive on tractor) and they worked fine. Fuse didn't melt. I used the tractor last night to grade a driveway and 10 or 15 minutes into it the fuse melted again. I mean it melted to the point plastic was dripping off the front. I took it back today and the dealer looked at it again. I happened to stop in and he was telling me that the fuse that he installed was bad. He brought out another one that was quite a bit heavier and ran the tractor for about 20 or 25 minutes and the fuse didn't melt. It had the same 25 amp rating but you could see the fuse was physically thicker and the blades were thicker. Has anyone ever heard of this kind of thing? ....

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greg_g
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2004-10-13          98297

Shame. Your dealer's mechanic apparently didn't think the step where I said
"the VERY first thing to do is track down the short that caused the fuse to blow in the first place"
was very important.

//greg// ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-10-13          98303

A higher capacity fuse is NOT the answer. It will just help make a bigger fire. If anything, I would use a self resetting 10 amp max. circuit breaker. What needs to happen is a competent mechanic needs to find where the electrical short is. My guess is that somewhere along the wire bundle for your light the wire insulation has worn through and intermittently dead shorts out. Do NOT install the fuse the dealer gave you. The next time it shorts out you may end up with a fire or worse. Examine the wires from the lights all the way back to the fuse holder. I bet you find a wire with some worn off insulation or faulty connection that is making contact to ground and causing the short. ....

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daveknowshow
Join Date: Oct 2004
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2004-10-13          98306

the fuse could have been not heavy enough in design fuses are not only rated by amps but by voltage as well many low voltage items 12 volt and such utilize a 250 volt fuse which is in a heavier case. my concern would be over sozing and burning a wire in half. my sugestion would be since its working now put a amp probe on the wire and take an amp reading with all lites on and motor running the amperage should not exeed 90%of the fuse rating about 22 amps or so if its much higher than that melt down will happen again also the fuse block needs atleast as high a rating as the fuse itself. hope this helps
David < electrician> ....

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alan6271
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Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-14          98327

Thanks again for the suggestions. When I was over there yesterday, he put a jumper in where the 25A fuse was supposed to go and put an amp meter on it. It registered, according to him (his hand was holding it where I couldn't see from my angle) it read 5 amps). ....

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s chrand
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2004-10-14          98330

I'm confused.
A fuse should blow, not melt, right?
If it keeps melting, then there must be too much heat being generated somewhere near it, most likely I would guess from a high resistance connection at either the fuse or fuse block connections.
What am I missing?
David ....

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alan6271
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2004-10-14          98332

Yep. That is what I thought too. The fuse isn't blowing, it's melting. The first time through the side of the fuse block. Last time I caught it in time and was able to pull the fuse before ruining the block. I did follow the wires as far as I could from each light to the underside of the pedestal but had a very hard time seeing up in behind the pedestal where all the wires are coiled. The places that you would expect the wire to be worn, near any metal on the chassis, it wasn't. It seems like something else may be going on besides a standard short. ....

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s chrand
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2004-10-14          98336

I think I would take the fuse block off and inspect the terminals that connect it to the lighting system. A bad connection from the wires to the spade terminal (I'm guessing it's a spade terminal) could be producing a lot of heat when current passes through it, and that heat would be conducted through the terminal into the fuse, and melt it. The insulation around the wires there should also be melted assuming that's the problem.
Good luck
David ....

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alan6271
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Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-14          98338

Let me ask another question. Is there a possibility the fault is in the light switch itself? When I drove the tractor home and the fuse didn't melt, I had the light switch in the position that runs the headlights and flashers. However, every time the fuse has melted, I had the switch in the position that had the headlights only on, not the flashers. The flashers do run on a seperate circuit and have their own fuse but the only difference in using the flashers with headlights and headlights only is the switch position. ....

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alan6271
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2004-10-14          98339

The other reason I am questioning the switch is that the dealer has already had the fuse block off the tractor and replaced it. I assume that they would have noticed a coroded wire and any terminals in the fuse block should have gone bye bye with the melted block. ....

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greg_g
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2004-10-14          98340

If you're actually removing a melted-down fuse that has not yet "blown" (opened), the electrical fault is on the supply (battery) side. Fuses blow when the fault is on the device side (the device pulls more amps through the fuse, than the fuse is rated to carry). Switches are almost always on the device side of the fuse box. I'd be looking for excessive current draw on the supply side first.

//greg// ....

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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-14          98341

Ok. That makes a little more sense to me why the fuse melts instead of blows. The other thing then, shouldn't the fuse be melting all the time, regardless if the lights are on or not. If the fault is before the fuse and before the switch, the fuse should melt as soon as I turn the ignition key on and power is supplied to that circuit, right? Or am I wrong (very possible). ....

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greg_g
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2004-10-14          98343

Well, not instantly. Something is acting as a resistor, generating heat. And it's taking time for the heat to build up to the point where it will melt plastic. Finding that "something" is a job for somebody who's got access to the 850's wiring diagram, a multimeter, and knows how to read both. I'm afraid I'm not in the first group, sorry

//greg// ....

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daveknowshow
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 35 virginia
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2004-10-14          98357

i would have too say the problem is in the fuse block its probaly under sized not the fuse but the block itself normaly an electrical part circuit or part of a circuit most always fails at the weakest point . as s chrand said the spade terminal can cause this i would replace all connections on the fuse block. keep in mind at times we have too increase the strength in one area too cause the problem too show up in the area that needs correcting. you can check the fuse block by taking a millivolt reading at the fuse block set the multimeter too milivolts take a reading between the line side and the load side of the fuse block it should not read more than .o99 any more than this is not exceptable if it reads more than that there is too much heat there caused by voltage drop. replace the fuse block you can also check the switch the same way. i hope this helps voltage drops are a leading cause of meltdowns a short will blow a fuse a drop increases heat and causes meltdowns. replacing the fuse block with a higher rated block should keep the fuse block / holder from melting ....

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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-15          98444

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all the advice and ideas. I used the tractor last night with all 7 headlights, 2 tail lights, and the flashers and the fuse didn't even get warm. It ran perfect. I used it for about two hours. Tonight I am going to try it with the headlights in the switch position that has just the headlights and tail lights with no flashers and see what happens. If it starts melting, that should narrow it down to the light switch. I'll post the results here.
Thanks
Alan ....

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alan6271
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41 Michigan
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2004-10-18          98630

Hi all. Here is the update. The American made 25Amp fuse works perfect. I was explaining this to someone else and they thought that becuase the foreign made one had thinner blades that it probably wasn't making as good of contact with the terminals in the fuse block and therefore it was getting hot.

Well, that's one problem solved. On to fixing that drawer in the kitchen.

Thanks again for all the help everyone gave.
Alan ....

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greg_g
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2004-10-20          98790

Unless you've mistaken it for the system fuse - or unless all five lights are 55W halogen - using a 25A fuse for probably <10A worth lighting is nothing more than curing the symptom without finding the cause.

You may be pleased with the results now. But - and again assuming it's not the system fuse and not 5x55w halogen - I expect you'll eventually see this solution coming back to bite you in the bum.

//greg// ....

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