790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index
New As Posted | Active Subjects



www.emerichsales.com - New & Used Equipment
          View Tractors For Sale!


www.partsbynet.com - Lawn and Garden Equipment Parts


Bernardsville Landscape Lighting
Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | | Next >>
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 11-19-2003, 07:44 Post: 69083
deeremd



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 18

4
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

Can anyone explain to me why Deere REDUCED the HP of the 790?? I bought mine on the assumption that it had 30 hp, but as others have mentioned on this board, the specifications of the newer 790s indicate that it has less.

Also, does anyone know of a way to get more lifting capacity out of the 419 loader? It doesn't seem that mine is evem meeting the capacities as specified in the manual.

Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks!






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 09:03 Post: 69097
DRankin



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5105

2
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

I could be wrong, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am...... but I don't think Deere changed engine models on this tractor. I think it was, and remains a 3NTE84.

I think they changed the way they report the numbers. I have brochures that are several years old that give gross HP (30), net HP (27) and pto HP at 25.

After a while they dropped the gross number and just reported the 27 and 25 numbers which morphed to 27/24. When you think about it nobody lists just a 2 HP loss at the PTO. It is always at least 3 HP and sometimes quite a bit more.

The old 30 HP stats said the torque was 54.1 foot pounds at 2600 RPM. What does your owners manual say now?

As far as the wimpy loader the only way to know for sure is to get a baseline. Have the dealer put a gauge on the system to see if it is running up to spec.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 10:36 Post: 69103
F350Lawman



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Goshen, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 411

11
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

The 37/24 hp figure is the figure now. The engine is also a 3NTE82.

I believe I was the one who discovered this "change" when I took delivery and happened to glance at the plaque on the motor. This started a bunch of posts on this and another board. Some of us contacted JD and the JD web site and newer brochures started reflecting the true engine model and power numbers.

I don't think that hydraulic power was changed as the new motor still spins the same pump at the same speed to the same pressure settings before it defaults. As far as lift capacity I don't have numbers. I can say that even before I tweaked it I moved 600lb objects that hung out of the bucket with ease to full height at idle.

It is a great tractor that is a little light in lift capacity, but I don't think the hp reduction cost much if anything in useability. At around 3000lbs with the FEL on this thing will lose traction LONG before it runs out of power. I've pulled huge rocks, 5000lbs trailers, skidded telephone poles 2 at a time all with very litle effort. Like all little tractors if it has grip it's a beast, power has never been it's downfall. I keep a 500lb counterweight on the back and it is very stable and the traction is very much improved.

I don't anticipate much if any decline in lift capacity with age. The tractor's relief valve is what stops you, not the pump running out of power. It seems JD went real safe and conservative with their settings. That is why some of us have tweaked the relief valve settings with about a 20% gain in lift. Tractor now lifts the front end easily without having to curl the bucket and will lift a bucket full of anything I need to lift including wet earth.

Unless someone is going to be lifting huge items all day the 790 is great. If you need that much lift you need a bigger tractor. Even if some other manufacturers tractor can lift more, if it weighs around the same as the 790 it isn't going to be safe to do often.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 12:16 Post: 69112
Art White



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6834

5
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

Many of the tractors basic spec's are the same as smaller tractors. Compare the hitch, loader, it's nothing bad they were just realigning there line up and will probably be introducing a new model shortly. This basic chassis has done them well for many years in this market.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 12:38 Post: 69117
deeremd



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 18

4
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

The newer manual says that the 790 has 50.1 foot pounds of torque. But I guess nobody really knows if these numbers reflect a true change in the later model 790 tractors, or just a change in the way the numbers are reported?

F350Lawman: How did you boost the FEL to get an additional 20% lifting capacity??






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 13:10 Post: 69118
Murf

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 7012

5
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

The lift capacity of any loader is the result of an equation. That equation is PSI of the hydraulic supply times the surface area of the piston(s) doing the lifting.

If you want to increase th capacity you either increase cyclinder diameter, or increase the PSI powering it, or both. The easiest (read cheapest) way to do that is to raise the pressure at which the relief valve opens. Normally this involves nothing more than loosening a jamb-nut and turning a screw.

A word of CAUTION here. If you boost the hydraulic power to the loader beyond the design capabilities of the loader frame and/or bucket, it could result in a catastrophic failure.

Best of luck.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 13:19 Post: 69119
F350Lawman



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Goshen, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 411

11
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

Here are some posts from older discussions on this topic. I also added a photo . See the link at the bottom the cap is #6 and the shims are #8. Obviously this is at your own risk, but I am confident I am still within safe parameters.

"The part number for the shims is AM875169. I believe the is the number. There is another number on the package (20030213DY4), but I think the first one is the part number. You need to order two of these packages. It is an assorted pack of shims that you can put in to increase the relief pressure."

"OK, I'm going to try and post a picture with this email. Flip up the seat on your tractor and this is what you will see. You will notice there are three caps. The one on the right (looking from the rear, it is the tallest cap) is where you will add the shims. Be careful when removing the cap because there are a couple of parts from inside the cap that can fall down and get lost. The shims get added to the inside of the cap, so as to push all of the other parts down slightly more. I originally said to add two full packages, but don't do this. I put mine on a guage and the PSI was way too high. Get a guage, start with one full package, and then work up from there. Keep in mind that the factory setting is 2050 PSI. I have mine at 2500 now with a modest increase in power. (3500 works really good, but don't ask how I know). When putting the cap back on, if it seems difficult, then reach in the hole and pull out the rubber o-ring and slip it over the threads on the cap. I will thread right in then.
I didn't measure it w/just one pack. I had both packs in when I saw the 3500 (actually a little more...the guage was a 3500 psi guage). My brother, who is a diesel mechanic, said that there was danger of cracking the pump at that pressure. We took out part of one of the packs and came up w/2500. Most of the difference was in the second pack. I would buy two packs (they are very cheap) and add them accordingly. The factory rated 2050 psi is just a safety measure that JD has built into these tractors so that no one turns one over. The frame on the loader as well as the hydraulics are capable of much more than this. I would actually feel comfortable at 3000 PSI....2500 is very well within the safety margin. There is a modest increase in lift capacity w/2500. My tractor would not even pick up a full bucket of sand before."






Picture Link
John Deere Review: 790-Horsepower-and-419-loader-issue

Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-19-2003, 23:30 Post: 69143
liljoe



Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 23
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

any chance of getting u to take a dial caliper to the shims u currently have in there. so when i get the shims i can just measure and install them. thanks joe






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-20-2003, 00:27 Post: 69144
F350Lawman



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Goshen, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 411

11
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

I installed one full pack of shims.

The pack contains 6 shims of varying thickness. All together they are less than 1/8 of an inch in thickness when combined.

I did not make all those posts so unfortunately I am not the guy with the guage So Sad I have any means of measuring the shims accurately.

My gains where measured by a big rock that I could only lift several inches high before the modification,I now can lift it to near (I didn't try to go higher due to no ballast at the time)full height. I also could not lift my tractors frontend with the FEL w/o using curl, I now can. Not scientific but all the gain I am really looking for.

when you look st the relief valve you will see it is avery small poppet that is forced into a small 1/4" hole by the spring. the shim pack gives it just a little more downforce into the hole. the spring seems to be alittle mushy for the first bit of movement then it toughens up, the shims probably take away some of that "mush"

I would go find something that has just been slightly too much for your loader, add one pack and try to lift it. Try the FEL lifting the front of your tractor as well. Those tests will let you know if you have achieved any gain. If not add a couple more shims and try again. It only takes 5 minutes and by going in increments it will be safer. Every tractor is probably a little different when we get it from the factory so even if I had measured results yours might be different. Thats probably why they make the shims to bring tractors back to specs.

I probably only gained a couple of hundred pounds of lift but that is the difference between lifting full buckets of dirt as opposed to 3/4 full. Actually I always could lift full buckets but freeing them was sometimes tough and slow if I had to grab mid-pile or lower.

Good luck






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 11-20-2003, 04:33 Post: 69146
mainiak1



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Maine
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 22

2
Filter by User
 790 Horsepower and 419 loader issue

I installed one pack of shims in mine and it pressure tested at 2400psi. I tested it before and it tested at 2050 psi.
Mainiak1






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | | Next >>

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 69083 Filter by Poster:
Art White 5 | BARNEE 1 | Chief 1 | deeremd 4 | deeremd2 1 | DRankin 2 | F350Lawman 11 | glalonde 2 | kubotaguy 1 | kwschumm 1 | liljoe 1 | mainiak1 2 | Murf 5 | TomG 7 |




Most Viewed

+ John Deere 2210 Backhoe Review
+ John Deere vs Kubota Compact Tractors
+ John Deere 790 fuel shut-off solenoid failing???
+ John Deere low viscosity HY GARD
+ John Deere JD 4100 Wiring diagram
+ JD 790 or Kubota L3000DT
+ Should I buy a John Deere 4105???
+ John Deere 4300 turns over but won't start
+ John Deere 455 garden tractor
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Most Discussion

+ John Deere 4300 scuffing......
+ Possible Solution To The 4000
+ Dealer out to lunch
+ Just got my new JD 4410 - Prob
+ Hello Green, Goodbye Orange
+ Receiver hitch for iMatch
+ 4300 wheel bolt problems
+ 4000 Ten Series 50 hour break
+ Don't buy JD compact tractors.
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Newest Topics

+ John Deere 4100 gear 3 point not workin
+ 2000 John Deer Gator 4 X2
+ Mini Excavator SY20C - Small Body with Big Power
+ John Deer 1070 starting problem
+ John Deere 990
+ Tractors R Us
+ john deere 4100 with 410 loader hydraulic problem
+ John Deere 2032R Buying advice
+ John Deere 2010 loss of hydraulics
+ L110 John Deer Tractor gas smell













Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines