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4100 glow plugs

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jcslocum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5 NY
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2003-11-11          68500

Hello all,

JD4100 HST
512 Hours
5 years old

I have a JD4100 HST tractor that is now with the colder weather very hard to start. Today I began poking around under the hood to see what I could find. It appears that all 3 glow plugs have burned out. I have used a volt meter and there is 12.5 volts to each of the glow plugs when the key is turned to the *ON* position. I'm not much of a
beliver in coincidence so while all 3 plugs seem to be burned out, I think that there is a deeper problem.

I pulled all 3 glow plugs out of the engine and 1 seems to have a small crater in it while the other 2 look to be good, visually that is.

I grounded the glow plugs one at a time to the block and aplplied power to them but none of them got hot. The applied voltage was 12.5 volts.

The ohmmeter does not regeister any resistance when attached to the post and the outer body (ground).

I think that there should also be a timer/controller to *time-out* the glow plugs afer the engine starts. This does not seem to be happening. I left the key in the *on* position for 90 seconds and the voltage didn't shut down.

Is it possible that with no load the timer won't work?

I assume that if the timer/controller has gone bad it will burn out all 3 glow plugs.

So, a long first post. I have ordered 3 glow plugs from the local dealer here in NY and will install them by the end of the week.

Thanks in advance for any help or insight.

Jon Slocum


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-11          68506

I am not up that much on the 4100's such as yours but I will take a swing here. My instincts are telling me that there is a glow plug relay in the sytem somewhere and might be possibly sticking. I would think that you must either push the key in or to a designated position to activate the glow plugs. They should not be activating when you turn the ignition switch on.

That may account for why all 3 plugs are burned out. The relay/timer may have been sticking and the plugs remained on all the time until they burned out. A long shot could be a bad ignition switch (unlikely)

DO NOT under ANY circumstances us ether to start the tractor. You may be replacing more than glow plugs after that. If you don't already have one installed you may want to consider a block heater to help cold starts as well. Mark or some of the others here I am sure will jump in with more experienced info. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-12          68527

Glow plugs are pretty reliable things and Chief's explanation is my best guess as well. There's probably an indicator that glows when the circuit's been on awhile and I'm curious if an indicator stayed on after the tractor started when the plugs were working. I think most indicators don't measure combustion chamber temperature but are just resistive wires that heat up and glow after they've carried current for awhile. Such an indicator wouldn't come on if the plugs were open.

The only other explanations seem pretty far-fetched--things like a stuck relay combined with over voltage from the charge system or simply wrong glow plugs. My system is a simple turn the key one way and wait for the indicator to light up and then a little longer depending on temperature and then turn the key to start. If there's a relay, I'm not sure it's an improvement over simple, although high current does flow through my start switch. ....

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jcslocum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5 NY
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2003-11-12          68534

There is no dash indicator showing thatthe glow plugs are on. There is also no special place for the key for activation. You just start it up. No kidding! ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-12          68540

Jon, it sounds like your machine has an automated glow plug system. This type of operation is normal in automotive diesels.

Basically the glow plugs are energized by a relay as Chief noted, however the relay is in turn controlled by heat, the engine temperature. If the engine is cold, the plugs have power, if the engine is above a certain temperature, either from running, or just the anmbient temperature, the relay does not power up the glow plugs.

If your system is as mentioned above, you will have 12v. to the glow plugs till the engine gets warm. Try running it to operating temp, then check for voltage again, if you still have 12v. wghen the motor is hot then you need to look farther.

Is the engine temerature gauge working properly? It is porbably the source for the temperature signal.

Either way glow plugs usually last a VERY long time. They will not however stand a cold blast while heating, if someone were to give the engine a shot of cold WD-40 while the glow plugs were hot it would probably burn them out right away.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-11-12          68541

When you first turn the key on your 4100, you see the dash lights come on and then you hear a click and they dim a little.

If you wait about 6 seconds you hear another click and the lights brighten.

I think that this interval, where there is a power draw, is when the glow plugs are active on the "indirect injection" Deere engines.

This design is found on the 2210, 4010, 4100 and 4110 but not on the 4115 and larger CUT's. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-13          68623

Cost cutting again! That's the only reason I can figure why there wouldn't be an indicator so you can tell if the automatic system failed. There was a similar discussion maybe about Kubotas where an indicator light was staying on so all automatic systems aren't equal.

I don't recall if the discussion had a conclusion though. The problem there was figuring if the system or the indicator failed, but at least you knew something was wrong. Sure must have been a challenge for the alternator while the plugs were burning out if that's what happened and there's a good change that the relay was continuously energized after they burnt out. It'd be good if the relay is rated for continuous operation. Good thing the cost cutting folks haven't discovered nuclear power reactors. ....

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jcslocum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5 NY
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2003-11-13          68625

Installed new Glow Plugs yesterday. $111 for 3 from the local JD dealer. Installed them and the tractor starts instantly like it always did. I let the voltage run for 30 seconds after the engine had started and then pulled the plug on the relay to shut them off. I'm afriad of burning them out again becasue I have no idea how long they can run before buring out. I'll order a new relay; $80 and see if that shuts off the juice after running.

Thanks for the help. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-11-13          68639

Mark, do the 4010/4110/4115 tractors utilize a flashing trouble code indicator light? Or are those only on the computerized models? I'm curious if the 4100 has such a thing. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-11-13          68644

Nope. I think that stuff only comes on the computerized models. ....

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jcslocum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5 NY
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2003-11-13          68669

Just ordered the "Glow Plug Controller" from JD. There is also a relay in the system. It's a black plastic, fully sealed box 3"x2" that is mounted up front by the battery.

It should be in tomorrow and I'll post the results. I hope that this is it. Netx step will be to put a push button in to do it manually. ....

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GottaHunt
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1 Northern Lower Michigan
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2003-11-17          68956

I bought a new 4010 in May 03. My glow plugs only energize when the key is in the "start" position...so I have to place the range selector in gear or turn on the PTO to keep the engine from starting while I energize the glow plugs. I discussed this with my dealer as I thought maybe mine was wired incorrectly. He tried it and found the 2 tractors on his showroom floor worked the same way.
Works OK for me...I don't have to worry about them staying on!

Rick ....

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jcslocum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5 NY
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2003-11-17          68967

Final resolution:

After replacing the glow plugs, I installed a new controller. This has solved the problem. The GP's now heat for about 7 secons when the key is turned to the *ON* position and shut off automatically.

Thanks for everyone's help. ....

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HuskyGTH200
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 23 Tug Hill NY
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2004-01-09          73519

Jon,
I have a 2002 HST 4115 and my JD operations manual says to set the throttle at 1/3 to 1/2, turn the keys on and wait for 3 seconds, and listen for a click. This seems to work fine for me. I played with the system and if the throttle is not cracked open, just a little, no click. I have to do this with the parking brake off, cause the flashing brake indicator light on the dash makes more noise than the click I am supposed to be listening for....You might want to try that. Good Luck
Scott Casey ....

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ipollard
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2 Monument, CO
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2012-11-05          185399

I have a JD 4100 with the same problem. I checked the glow plugs and all are bad.
Could you let me know where you ordered the glow plugs and the relay?
I have looked and I'm not sure I'm looking at the correct ones.
Thanks,
Irv
....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2012-11-05          185400

Don't know for sure..... but since this thread is 9 years old you may not get a timely response. ....

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