Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 07-15-2003, 21:04 Post: 59573
Andyw
2003-07-15 21:04:29
Post: 59573
 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

HI,

I have a 4700 with a 460 FEL and a 48 back hoe. If I have my paleet forks installed on the loader and a pallet loaded and raised and leave the loader in an up position for five minutes or less the forks start tipping. I have the same problem with the back hoe. I start working with the stabalizers lowered and after five minutes I am bouncing off the tires. I have had the dealer check for this problem but get the reply that the leak down rate is within the service manual specs. This was checked before the tractor was two years old and had approx. 250 hours. Is anyone else having this problem?






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 07-16-2003, 07:47 Post: 59587
TomG

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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

I have the stabilizer problem with my hoe. I don't try to lift the rear wheels with the stabilizers but the tractor is pretty heavy for the hoe. I'm going to check the relief valve pressure on the hoe valve to see if up to spec before tearing into the valve. There's a chance that weight plus load shocks from digging are bleeding off some oil in the stabilizers.

Other people have commented that the JD leak down standards are generous enough to be aggravating. As Murf mentioned in another thread. Fancy valves can have load locks and then the problem goes away, even if the price does go up. My loader valve doesn't leak down appreciably and it doesn't have locks. The valve is at least 10 years old.






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 07-16-2003, 07:53 Post: 59588
DRankin



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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

Yes, it is a common complaint. My 4100 FEL leaks down, as do most Deere loaders judging from the comments we get here.

If I recall the specs correctly, anything less than a foot of movement per hour, measured at the hydraulic cylinder, is considered normal.

There is some information on the Deere web site on this topic.






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 07-16-2003, 11:16 Post: 59608
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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

Hi Tom and Mark,

Thanks for replies. The leak down problem is there even when there is no load applied. If you leave the back hoe with out the travel pins in it it will lay on the ground in approx. 15 minutes, as well the FEL will do the same. If I was aware of this so called normal leak down I would have looked at other products. I purchased JD because I thought it was top quality product. There are many other products in this class at a much lower price that do not leak down at this rate. Is anyone aware of a fix or modification to correct this problem.






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 07-16-2003, 12:04 Post: 59613
Murf

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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

This seems to be a rather widespread problem, and even then it appears that sometimes it is the cylinder that is the culprit, sometimes the valve.

The loader on my new 'Bota has an extremely slow leakdown, and my hydraulic toplink which NEVER leaked down on my old unit now drops rather quickly.

If you could determine whether it was the cylinder or valve that was leaking it could concievably be fixed, but is it worth it?

Since none of us would ever park a machine, or probably even get off a machine without lowering all hydraulically moveable parts it should never be an issue, right ? ;-> Laughing out loud

Best of luck.






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 07-17-2003, 04:54 Post: 59662
jeff r



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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

A foot an hour?????? That redefines the leakdown standard. My Wood's Loader will stay in place for a couple days or longer before it drops even a so slightly and the PD backhoe boom moves down about an inch in 2 days. A tilt on the loader bucket with no load in 5 minutes is totally UNBELIEVABLE.






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 07-17-2003, 05:43 Post: 59664
TomG

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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

The internal control valve parts for the factory Ford loader valve (which I don't have) are in my parts manual so most valves likely can be rebuilt and cylinders resealed. However, rebuilding things wouldn't solve the problem if appreciable leak down is accepted in the engineering design, and it seems to be.

There might be various reasons why a leaky valve would be designed (more gratuitous safety stuff for example). Sloppy spools and cylinders may last longer. There also can be all sorts of unanticipated factors in the use of equipment that are missed in design. For example, people may use lighter oil than anticipated or, more particles during break-in get through the filter and end up in the valve spools. Maybe JD CS has some answers. I'm not sure that rebuilding things would lessen the leak-down.

If you're interested in delving into it a bit, Your loader may have quick connects on the cylinder lines and disconnecting them to see if the leak-down stops would help identify where the leaks are. If the leak down persists and the PB line has a quick-connect for the hoe, the loader PB can be disconnected, which would stop oil leaking from the cylinders back to the sump. If the leak-down persists, it still could be inside the control valve across the valve If so, there's really no fix except now control valve sections. Most spools seal by close tolerance machining and lapping into the valve bodies. There aren't any seals to replace.

I'm pretty much with Murf here. Leak down during operation isn't much of a problem since I continuously adjust the position of things anyway. My hoe stabilizers is another question. The leak down does affect my operation and is aggravating enough to motivate me do fix it.






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 07-17-2003, 08:18 Post: 59673
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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

Jeff, the leakage is situational.

Worst case I have observed: load in the bucket(one foot off the deck), hot day, in the sun, the bucket will drop a foot in 20 minutes.

Best case: cold day, in the shade, no load.... it stays put for a couple of days.






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 07-17-2003, 09:24 Post: 59681
jeff r



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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

I know Mark......but the problem he has would be intolerable for me. A bucket tilt in 5 minutes????? stabilizer drop on backhoe?????? For all intents and purposes in my mind he might he might as well have a hydro hose streaming oil and leaking badly. It may be within JD convoluted specifications and it may be situational.......BUT IT IS NOT NORMAL, there is a problem, and it is affecting operation. I wouldn't put up with it.






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 07-17-2003, 11:06 Post: 59693
Murf

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 Cylinder leak down on 460 FEL and 48 back hoe

It may also be that JD's "normal range" is a little 'customer abuse' tolerant. A friend of my Father's bought a CUT for playing, err... I mean working, around his cottage, this machine had the same annoying problem. He talked to a hydraulic shop and they said the cylinder 'O' rings had likely been damaged by excess pressure.

He removed all the cylinders and took them in to be re-sealed, they said every one of the 'O' rings had dimples on them from fluid jetting past them. It cost him $30 per cylinder and now the loader will stay in position indefinitely.

Best of luck.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 59573 Filter by Poster:
Andyw 1 | andywoj 3 | DRankin 6 | jeff r 2 | John R. 1 | Murf 6 | TomG 3 |




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