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Hello Green Goodbye Orange

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DRankin
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2003-06-27          58426

Well I made a financial decision yesterday. I had been trying to sell the 4100 the whole latter half of last year, ever since I got the BX22.

I could not generate any interest in it, and a couple months ago I quit trying to sell it and decided if I was going make payments on it I was going to use it so I brought it home.

Yesterday I ordered the new 46 Backhoe for the 4100. I am thinking that since the Kubota's are in such short supply that it will be easier to sell the BX22 than it was to sell the Gear/Deere.

It will be sad to see that little sucker go but it will also be good to have just one tractor payment.


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Chief
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2003-06-27          58433

2 tractor payments???? I guess I am about on par with you then. I have a tractor and my Dodge Cummins payment. Have you asked the local JD dealer if they would sell it on consignment for you if you purchased say a 4310 or 4410 or is that more tractor than what you need of want? I think 4310 or 4410 would be a good choice for the 48 hoe. ....

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2003-06-27          58435

It is a new product, sized for the 4100/4110/4115.

And yes, they will handle the BX on consignment if I cannot find a ready buyer. ....

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Maynard
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2003-06-27          58436

I'm sure you're aware that JD and Kubota has zero interest for 24 -36 months? When I bought my 4210 I was going to pay cash, but was informed of the zero interest so I decided to use their money for 24 months and make payments. I don't know where you're located but used compact tractors are a big demand here in Northern California. I sold my JD 750 4x4 with FEL, box scraper and 350 hrs for $8500 ....

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DRankin
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2003-06-27          58437

I am not far... Northern Nevada. I am not sure if the zero percent money applies to component purchases without a tractor in the loan, but I will sure find out. ....

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Art White
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2003-06-27          58443

Sorry to hear of your options Mark. I know from your comments that you really liked and seemed to enjoy the BX tractor. I'm quite sure it won't take long to sell it as they are in short supply. The other option would be to just reduce the price on the Deere to a wholesale price and dump it if you could find a buyer and keep your BX22. ....

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Murf
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2003-06-27          58444

Zero percent interest? Don't count on it, it's called "False Economy" in fact the Government recently ordered GM to clarify it's ad's by making disclosure that if you buy a vehicle under their "Zero Percent" financing program you will PAY MORE for your vehicle than if you negotiate a cash sale or find your own financing.

I buy several new tractors a year, every year, for the fleet, and my dealer, who is PAINFULLY honest, openly tells me that the (financially) best time to buy is mid-winter when (here anyways) sales are at the lowest point and they are trying to clear out inventory at both the dealer and manufacturer level.

Most dealers will tell you to save your cash and finance the deal at "zero percent" because they make more money that way. Check the sale prices you will see just how 'good' a deal Zero really is.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2003-06-27          58445

Absolutely right. There is no free lunch. ....

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2003-06-27          58449

Art, there-in lies the problem. I could give it away and still make payments on it for the next year, but that makes no sense to me.

I think I can get enough out of the BX to pay off the loan and be rid of the monthly payment.

There are a couple of things I can do with the 4100 that I cannot do with the BX, like pick up the nose of my 5th wheel and spot it into it's blind parking spot. The BX loader does not have enough power to lift it.

Someday I would like to get a B2410/7800/2910 class tractor with a backhoe. Having an HST has spoiled me to a certain extent, but I can get by OK with my 4100 Gear as long as it can run a backhoe. ....

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2003-06-27          58450

Mark, if moving the 5th wheel is an issue you should try it with a hydraulic deadman dolly, once you have spotted a trailer using it instead of a loader you will wonder how you ever did it before.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2003-06-27          58452

I've seen some dead guys in my time, but none of them had much hydraulic pressure left........

Seriously, what is it and where do I find info on it? Does it work on non-paved surfaces? Hills? ....

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Art White
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2003-06-28          58461

You just need bigger tires on them or a larger load capacity. I've seen several sizes of them. How about a two for one trade? Get what you want now, knowing what your needs are why spend more to get to where you want to go? That is what this site is about to air ideas to help people get the the right products without making mistakes or when you,or we do get them corrected quickly. That is often how dealers wind up with less then hundred houred trades. ....

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DRankin
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2003-06-28          58470

Good thinking. I have explored the double trade option and came up with the same black hole.

It was far more cost effective to keep two tractors that combined needed features than it was to trade both in and still owe several thousand bucks on tractors I no longer had, at least until there was some viable equity in the loan balances.

If I decide to get a bit more power and an HST in the future, the new hoe and several other goodies will go right on a new 4115. After reading this board I don't think I would look any higher than that in the Deere line.

Tell me more about this dolly.... is there a web site with pictures?

Art, thought it might interest you..... Talking to my buddy at to local Kubota/Deere shop yesterday.... Kubota's Stockton CA warehouse is out of tractors.

Not just BX22's, all tractors.
....

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Art White
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2003-06-28          58472

Mark, we have had another good year with Kubota's on all sides. Our rep just loves us as in his area the dealers maintained just over 40 percent of all tractor sales under 100 horsepower last year. I feel bad that I can't deliver in my own back yard the units we are selling now. Some we are setting for September deliveries. I was told that the dealer orders for the BX22 were 100% more than the factory could build. Tough break for them. I've seen the tongue dollys Mark but I can't tell you were to get them or much about them. ....

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jeff r
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2003-06-28          58476

Mark,

IF you lived in southeast Michigan that JD 4100 would be sold faster than the Indians overtook Custer. I have had no less than 4 people stop this spring wanting to buy my B-2150 in their desparate search for ANY used COMPACT utility tractor for less than a new price.

Jeff ....

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2003-06-28          58478

Mrk
Im interested in finding out more info on that 46 backhoe for your 4100. I also have a 4100 and thaught that this platform could not handle a backhoe. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-28          58479

I can tell you for a fact that Jeffr is right about SE michigan. I know I spent enough time looking. I guess I am a little lost on the zero % post murf. How do you pay more on zero % than paying the same price with interest ??? I guess maybee some folks might to forget to negotiate. Here it really is not that tough to negotiate down to within $500 of plan price. I have never done better than that paying cash. I know one thing though, I sure am glad I only have 12 payments left on the duramax becuse it is a FAT payment. Of all of The Kubotas I looked at Mark I really did like the 2910. ....

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2003-06-28          58480

DOC

Real simple......get your best price less rebates and then get your shop to grt BEST financing locally,,,what ever the amount comes to it will be better than the O% financing total amount offered by the by the dealer or manufacturer. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-28          58482

Ok, I'm a little slow. If my best price on a new Duramax is $41,500 and GM holds it at 0% how in the world are you ahead when the banks are at 8.25 % ?? ....

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DRankin
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2003-06-28          58483

JW9643,

Here is what I know about the 46 backhoe:

It is brand new, it is supposed to be available in July, it is an official Deere product, 6.5 foot digging depth, on a sub-frame, comes with a 9" bucket and has options for 13, 16, 20 and 24 inch buckets.

It requires a 410 loader on the front, A tall folding ROPS ($309), and a power beyond kit ($200).

The full list retail is $5799 for the hoe and sub-frame.

It is NOT available for the 2210 or the 4010.

....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-28          58484

Sounds Like a pretty slick set up. I have been searching about the zero % financeing. All the articles I have read so far are relateing to people not negotiating or not qualifying for the 0%. I read that less than 10 out of 100 who apply actually get the 0%. You sure need to make sure you read what you sign. If you dont qualify I would think you would have to shop around. I got in on the 36 month plan which made for BIG payments. I understand now though that they have a 60 month plan. I see JD and kubota are at 0 % for thirty six months. If you qualify and are still able to work a cempetitive deal I guess I sure dont see the down side. ....

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jeff r
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2003-06-28          58492

DOC

GM 0% financing is real simple. You can have O% financing for 60 months IF you qualify, but you CAN't get the rebate. You have to choose between the rebate OR the 0% financing but you can't get both. Around SE Michigan Credit Unions show you on paper where if you take the Rebate and the credit Union's 5% or lower financing you are ahead of the game rather than take 0% financing and NO REBATE. 8.25% for new vehicles DOES NOT EXIST in SE Michigan. That is what they charge around here for used vehicles depending on age of the vehicle. If you have a relative who works for or is retired from GM as I have the price GETS WAY LOWER TOO. Shucks, back in 1994 I financed a new GM Extended Cab and got 7.25% with NO money down for 60 months. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-28          58497

JEFF R

I am not sure, you might want to take just a second or two to check loan rates. Try Standard Federal. They have a web site with their rates posted and they are the biggest bank in SE michigan. Their rate TODAY, NEW CAR 60 mos is 7.750 %. Now haveing lived in grand Blanc for several years I know EXACTLY what the banks in greater flint are like and they dont even come close to the rates here, BUT I will play along at the rate of 5.00%. Based on $41,500 for a 2500 HD Sierra, Duramax Loaded. Plus 6% sales tax your payment at 5% is $830.15 x 60 = $49,809 - $41,500 -$2,490 (6% sales tax) = $5,819 in interest. Maybe I am not as smart as I think but how is takeing a $3,000 rebate better than paying $2,819 EXTRA in interest. OOPS ! Now for the REAL WORLD interest. $41,500 at 7.750% for the same vehicle etc is $886.70 per mo x 60 = $53,202 - $41,500 - $2490 sales tax is $9,202 in interest WOW you LOOSE ! $6,202 if you take that big $3,000 rebate. Now This is excepting the example Murf gave of paying cash because then you would save the 3k which at the rates the banks are currently paying you would never recover $3k on a $41,500 cd in five years in fact I calculate you would save about $1,800. ....

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2003-06-28          58498

First of all, I am not a member of ANY labor union. I worked for GM back in the 70s and QUIT, it was the worst UNION job I ever had. They union people were druggies and the management people were alcoholics. It was a miracle anything got built correctly. My dad is retired from Buick where he was a group leader over 65 mechanics. My Dad hired in at Buick with a journeymens card in his trade and wouldn't give you a rubber nickel for a GM/UAW trained mechanic. A group leader is a union position that gives technical expertise to management/foremen who KNOW nothing about internal combustion engines and the guys that fix them. Secondly, I dont deal with for profit banks and their 6 digit over paid bank executives. I deal with non profit credit unions. Lastly, if you call Dort Federal Union, I'm sure they will explain why no interest financing is a joke. ....

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jeff r
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2003-06-28          58499

I just checked my Credit Union's car loan rates. 4.75% for 2001-2003 vehicles for 66 months. 4.75% for NEW or Used 2001-2003 for 60 months. 4.5% for 48 months for New/used 2001-2003 vehicles. Dortfcu.org

Here is some food for thought. LMAO,,,,Last year I bought my 1994 Kubota B-2150 with new Woods FEL at another credit union (ELGA Credit Union) I belong to and financed it for 60 months no money down and at 5.25% APR. Somebody is getting ripped off on interest rates and it sure is not me. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-29          58511

Jeff R, Firstly I was simply trying to understand the logic behind a statement like, "just ask the dealer for the best comparative financeing and what ever it is it will be better than 0 % ." I am still more than a little befuddled by that statement. I can easily understand why your Credit Union and all other banks are more than a little miffed at the auto companys. Their is no mystery here, Why dont you explain it to me ? Look there are enough on line calculators that you should easily be able to tell that even with the rate you mentioned you will still be paying MORE $ if you take the rebate. One thing I learned a long time ago about purchases is not to get caught up in the Minuta. There is only one number that is significant. How much will you pay in the end. No Dissrespect to Murf at all but the vast majority can not pay cash. I do also agree that the advertiseing is VERY missleading if in point of fact less than 10 out every 100 who apply actually get 0%. That Sounds like the old bait and switch to me. If the reabate were say 5k then you would be ahead. Chagrined as I am, knowing that you would fire back with a rate even lower than your example it still doesn't add up. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-29          58516

Useing the same example as above. Est $46,500 sticker $41,500 purchase price, no money down, 6% sales tax, 4.75% 60 mos not takeing the 0% and opting for the $3,000 rebate you would pay $2,517.20 MORE ! ....

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jeff r
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2003-06-29          58518

DOC

The reason it doesn't add up is that the financed amount is so large that it negates the rebate value. My wife told me the example the credit union used was based on a 3000 rebate and a 21,000 dollar financed amount. Your huge 41,000 financed amount takes a huge chunk of interest over 60 months at even 4.75% and eats up that 3,000 rebate like no tommorrow. I'm sure GMAC will cry like a baby financing 41,000 over 5 YEARS, their profitabilty goes right out the window with 0% financing on huge financed amounts like 41,000 buckeroos. If you really want to see them cry, watch how they wine when a GM employee gets the GM employee price and incentatives and takes the 60 months no interest. That makes Wall Street and Mooney's ratings go right into the toilet. My guess is that few people will qualify for 0% financing because it is a terrible money loser fot the car companies like GM. Case in point, my brother just boughtlas fall a loaded 03 Chevy extended cab 4X4 with all the GM employee discounts and GM mastercard discounts. He got a 33,000 sticker price down to 24,200. That my tractor friends is 30% off sticker. With his down payment, he financed for 60 months at 4.85% and has a payment of about 385.00. My suggestion to anyone on this board is to get ahold of a GM active or retired employee and get that referral certificate that every GM employee has been getting in the mail so you can get the BIG GM employee discounts. A GM retired friend of mine offered his 2 certificates on the Walleye fishing board and had over 1500 people that wanted them. He had to have a drawing to see who got them, LOL. ....

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2003-06-29          58519

Yes that is certainly True. Although I think it fair to say not too many people get a new vehicle for $21,000. In the above scenario you would be ahead $300 by takeing the reabate which still is a fair amount of money. Especially if you have auto debit or your banking servicer offers incentives that will save you $ like free checking etc. At the $41,000 I was useing Plan price. For those who can not get the Plan one thing I used to do was find the exact vehicle I wanted on a sunday. Then I would call a dealer I did not intend to use, read the list for the vehicle, tell them I had the plan and then get the price. I new exactly how much room I had to negotiate then. In the Detroit paper now many dealers advertise the plan price. It is also noteable that if you have a trade in with a ZERO balance or are putting ANY money down the bank with the rebate COULD be a much better deal. It also works the other way if you are unloading a vehicle that you do not want and are paying interest the 0 % if you qualify can be a great deal as you are transferring a interest bearing debt to 0%. One thing is for sure, I make a decent liveing and new cars are getting to the point where I just wont pay the price. I have a 95 Bronco with 100,000 miles on it that I intend to put another 50k on before it goes. That is really the only way I can justify a Diesel as I hope they will last 10 years. ....

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2003-06-29          58521

DOC

The average new purchace price for all vehicles in the U.S is 25,000. Remember $21,000 is the financed amount after incentatives. The sticker price for that vehicle could be 28,000 or more. THe Detroit newspapers DO advertise employee pricing you just have to look for astericks and small print. Most advertised pricing in anybodies newspaper today is LEASE PRICING since lease pricing is always lower than BUY pricing. A lease is nothing but a RENT for a predetermined time span with no equity built in the payment. If you didn't have lease pricing today you would take out a zillion people who couldn't afford to buy vehicles. I refer to lease pricing as a Herpes car payement because it lasts forever and you have nothing to show for it after the lease it up. At least if you buy a 25,000 vehicle and complete 60 months of payments you at least have a vehicle that is worth 12,000 60 months later poor investement none the less. YOU HAVE NOTHING AFTER A LEASE EXPIRES except your ego in jumping into a new lease with a new vehicle.

Let's talk about your Duramax/Allison transmission. That option is costing you 10,000 bucks extra. That engine gets no better gas mileage than my neighbors 2500XD with a 6.0 gas which is 10-13. You better make darn sure you need the extra torque because it will surely cost you a heap of dough more as compared to a gas engine. Back when I owned a suburaban with a 6.2 GM diesel I got 24-27 and drove it for 360,000 miles trouble free except for maintanance. The extra 2700 for the Diesel was more than worth it because it got better gas mileage and the fuel was cheaper. I too am miffed at these hugely outrageous vehicle prices. The best deal on the market today is a CLEAN 2- year coming off lease vehicle with 30,000 miles that the dealers have sitting around by the 1000s choking to DEATH with the floorplanning charges. YOU CAN STEAL THESE VEHICLES AND NAME YOUR OWN PRICE. A buddy of mine stopped over yesterday with a 2001 Chevy Malibu 4 door loaded with 38,000 that he bought for 5,000 bucks. Used SUVs and 4X4 Trucks with extended cabs with 30,000 to 40,000 miles are a dime a dozen around this area.

My next door neighbor used some creative financing by getting a 5.25% Home equity loan to buy his Chevy 4x4 crew cab 1500XD. Now he can deduct the interst as home mortgage interest.
....

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Misenplace
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2003-06-29          58523

Well Jeff I can agree with about 98% of that. But I'd make you a strapping large wager on that MPG statement. I have ownded both and you have to be passing gas going downhill on a good day with the gas engine to get 12 mpg. I NEVER get under 18 and I have hit 22 a couple of times, regularly over 20 mpg. My price on the Allison/Duramax was actually $4,000. Believe me if it was 10k I wouldnt own it. You also need to consider I regularly pay 15 cents per gallon less than regular. I will EASILY recover the cost of the diesel. Even when towing my tractor I am over 17 mpg. ....

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WillieH
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2003-06-29          58531

My 1909 GMC 4x4 came equipped with a 3 cyl 4100 Deere diesel installed...? ARGHH !!!! Now I'm all screwed up!

Seriously, my 1990 GMC Sierra is only used for towing my oranges around, and maybe a little showing off on the streets. It has 200,000 + miles on her, a 350 fuel injected, 4spd 'matic beauty, with twin 3" pipes straight back, and a few other,ahem, modifications that I threw into her mix. Point being, having fun with her without the trailer, I get about 26+ miles to the gallon on the highway at 65mph. Drop it down to 55, and the mileage raises to about 28mpg. Throw on the trailer with the orange and hoe, she delivers about 22 mpg. Certainly not gonna trade her in for something newer, yet. ( Though my mileage savings on "gasoline", is somewhat offset by the loss of tire tread leaving the hole! )

Willie H. ....

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2003-06-29          58532

26 & 28 mpg??????????????? 22 mpg towing a tractor with hoe????????????? Sorry Willie but that is just not possible, not even with a diesel. Even with pusher fans, going down hill with 14 men farting and flapping their arms continuously for thrust. I think maybe you made a typo and hit the 2 instead of the 1. ;o) ....

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2003-06-29          58535

18 to 20mpg with a 4.11 rear end????,,,never!!! I have 4 friends with the Duramax/Allison and they aren't getting squat close to that. Better check out that sticker price for the Duramax/Allison option as I have already, It is nearly a 10k option on the sticker. Shucks, 4 wheel drive alone is nearly 4000 as compared to its 2 wheel counter part. Why do you think it is 41,000 dollars as compared with its gas 6.0 and a GM transmission on a 2500XD??? IF a Duramax/Allison was only a 4000 option cost they would be selling 3 to 1 over their gas equivalents of which they NOT. Do you actually thing GM would offer a Turbo Diesel and a custom transmission and only get 4000k for their extra efforts over the gas/regular tranny option....no way!!! ....

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2003-06-29          58536

Hah Ha...that's exactly the responses that I have been dealing with since back in the mid-nineties when I did the work on her.

Many different garages have had to take a second look even a third, as to what I have done. They too were disbelievers, as were some friends, until they used her for
trailering another truck some 250+ miles, and were flabbergasted at the mileage she gave. They used my GMC with my 20' tandem flatbed trailer, carrying a japtor pickup, up the highway, back up into the hills of VT, and realized 16+ with their trip.

I kid you not. I set up the truck for performance towing. Some years ago, the electric brakes were energized for a long haul, without me knowing it. This ultimately led to the tranny's demise by the end of that particular trip. When I rebuilt the tranny, I put in a set of spags and clutch kits designed for racing, along with other set-up modifications internal to the tranny. The guy that assisted me with the rebuild, owns and operates a performance tranny shop, and told me ahead of time that the performance difference of this NP tranny, before and after will be like night and day. He certainly was correct. It actually travels better,(weight displacement and handling), with the flatbed on , rather than off.

Realizing another usually overlooked element, is the tread design of the tires. I changed from GoodYear agressive style tread design, to Cooper SE's,(road hugger tread design). HUGE difference in mileage right there alone, without the loss of traction in the slippery stuff.

I set up my father's 1985 Chevy Beauville long chassis window van somewhat similarly. That came equipped with a 350, carburetor, and 4spd NP 'matic. He still drives it and realizes 21 - 22 mpg loaded on the highway.

I too WAS a disbeliever, until I ate the pudding...and the proof was in it. No typo here, my friend.

Willie H. ....

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2003-06-29          58538

Sorry Willie, nothing personal but you nor anyone else can change the laws of physics and you ain't gettin' no 22 mpg towing a tractor and definitely not 26 to 28 empty. If you could make mods such as that successfully, you need to patent the mods. because this will make you a billionaire. ....

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2003-06-29          58541

Ah, but one should inquire about the patents that I hold.:-)

Willie H. ....

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2003-06-30          58545

Hate to break in here and distract Willie, I think he is going to tell a few good secrets on fuel economy. Not all manufcturers deal with the low interests the same. Some, lets say the majority have back charges for there use. Yes, the numbers do often come out looking better for standard rate then 0%. When purchasing it is always good to go in not looking to buy that day. Study, look at your options. I know what I would use for every type of work for the equipment that I sell, but when my wife wanted a car, I spent about 50 hours studing the market and vehicles. ....

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2003-06-30          58546

Hay Jeff, I'm sorry bud but I think you better bust that calculator back out and learn how to use it ! lol. Please forgive me for not accepting your math after your financeing boo boo's. READ THE POST, I said I paid 4k. Remember how that A plan stuff worked to your advantage when you were talking $. Plan price really kicks in on the options. The Diesel/tranny is NOT 10 k. I am starting to wonder if you work for Toyota. Buddy you are absolutely LOST if you think the gas gets the same MPG as the diesel. I have talked to many Duramax owners who regularly get better MPG than mine thanx to performance mods. But Like I said, I'll wager $1,000 that you are dead wrong. You just live an hour away. I'll pick you up, We'll have the wife hold the cash take a cruise up the highway and we get back I'll be that much better off. I'll then wager another bet on that package price as I Actually have my window sticker ! LOL ....

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2003-06-30          58548

Art, I certainly agree you have to do your homework as we have shown you COULD get a better deal with out the 0% but would you mind elaborateing on how a manufacturer can handle 0% differently ? ....

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2003-06-30          58550

Some companies do not have the 0% (cost you 3000. or 3 or 5%) add on to use the 0% interest. Some do and some don't it is always buyer beware. Most all auto companies do! Not all ag companies do but most are on board with it. It seems the computer has been put to use to find out exactly what percentages they need to cover the cost of 0%. There are times it works good on using the cash discounts vs the 0% and it is up to the dealer to inform you of the options and what they do for you to make a better decision. ....

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2003-06-30          58552

Art, Thanx for the tip, Something to watch for. I also noticed with some of the Ag companys that they have really great % rates and advertise a real low payment. You really have to read the fine print because if you dont pay the loan in FULL in the short term special rate they start chargeing 19% interest. The real kicker is they back charge it from day 1 ! Willie, I'd personally like to hear about some of those fuel saveing mods. Always looking for fuel saveing tips. It really makes my day topping 20 mpg in a HD truck. ....

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2003-06-30          58553

Chief, what kinda mpg are you getting with the cummings and was your tranny/Diesel combo 10 k ??? ....

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2003-06-30          58557

Example of 0% financing verses 4.79%

I bought a 2003 Silverado Z71 a few months back. GM offered 0% financing for 60 months or $3,000 rebate.

I financed $18,000 at 4.79% for 60 months. The payments are $337.95.

If I had taken the 0% financing, I would have had to finance $21,000. $21,000 at 0% for 60 months = $350.00.

I saved $723.00 by not going the 0% route. ....

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2003-06-30          58560

I guess it seems similar to the points at closing with morgages. They advertise a low rate on the morgage then charge closing costs to complete the sale. If you add the closing cost to life of the morgage then the interest rate does not look as good.
I guess I consider a morgage as any other item for sale. Charging someone for the right for you to make money does not sit well with me. I thing all the charges need to be up front in the morgage rate. ....

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2003-06-30          58567

Doc, Mark, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, the lake was calling too loud, LOL.

Doc, my point about the 0% being MORE expensive was that if the 'program' wasn't on you wouldn't be paying $41k for that truck, and the savings would almost certainly exceed the cost of borrowing. Your own bank will like you better than any manufacturer, no question, if you add on to that the fact that mortgages are tax deductable in your country you get a second kick at the savings, if you were to enlarge your mortgage and use the cash to buy the machine then not only would you get the best possible price, but the interest that you did pay would be with BEFORE tax dollars.

Mark, I couldn't find any pics of a dolly on the 'net but if I do I will post them. The best way to describe it to you is as follows, it is a nearly vertical (tipped forward about 15 degrees) jack which is hydraulically adjustable up & down, there is a hitch on top and wheels on the bottom, the implement is fixed in position behind the tractor by the 3pth with no motion in this junction side-to side, vertically only, the wheels, usually two trailer type wheels, however are mounted on a VERY short axle which swivels on a 5th wheel-like arrangement allowing extremely tight turning.

The big advantage with this arrangement is that it allows ultimate flexability both in moving and manuevering. If you have to move a trailer very far you are driving forward rather than reversing, and when positioning the trailer requires travel on less than flat ground, as most of yours is I assume, then the weight which is transferred to the 3pth, together with the front weight of a loader gives incredible traction and braking power, in fact most of the bigger units I have seen also have electric brakes on the dolly wheels. The dolly action also takes out a lot of the vertical travel problems caused by the long forward extension of the loader arms, the constant adjustment to maintain correct height of the hitch is gone. Most of these units also have a height-adjustable hitch for tag-a-longs as well.

Best of luck. ....

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2003-06-30          58568

Doc, so nice of you to ask! ;o) That was a very close guess at 10K but it is actually 10,763 mpg. ;o) Pretty good mileage ehhhh???? Actually cruising at around 55 - 60 I get 22 - 23 mpg. Pulling a good load anywhere from 16 - 18 mpg. ....

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2003-06-30          58570

Billy, anytime you finance LESS than 25k and there is a sizeable rebate you will probably be better off with the bank. It is sinmply stateing the obvious to say the less you finance the better off financially you will be. I am not sure I understand your point Murf. The truck I purchased at 41k was PLAN price. You can not get lower, 0% or not. I think you might be trying to say that now the zero % has gone on so long some dealers might not deal as much so you have to be carefull about where you buy if you do not get a plan price. I can not agree with you at all about loaning money off a mortage to buy any depriciable asset. I am a little suprised that your advisors would not councel you on that at tax time. It would take way too long to get into here but after application fees, interest over the years you will pay far more interest that way even with the very limited tax saveings. This does vary with your tax bracket/bank but I personally think it would be a poor move. Useing your home as collateral should be used very carefully. Now that we are on very personal topics such as Money, religon, politics and the other fellows wife, we should probably leave theese aside as much as possible. I do think your initial statement is dead on, Pay as much down as possible and take the time to negotiate the best deal for yourself. ....

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2003-06-30          58571

Chief, What year is your truck ? I am assumeing that is sticker and you didnt actually pay that much ! You are getting better gas mileage than I am. I may join the ranks of the Dodge boys again after 20 years. My wife is ordering a 1500 SWB 4x4 Hemi. ....

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2003-06-30          58572

Doc, I misread your post. The Cummins HO is about $5000 and it requires the NV5600 6 speed manual. REALLY BEEFY transmission. Weigh about 400 lbs. We need to get you into a real diesel truck Doc. Nothing runs or sounds like a Cummins. I used the be a dyed in the wool Chevy man but after the pissing on I took with the Suburban; I will NEVER own a Chevy again. My wife's Ford Taurus is a piece of crap and Ford has not stood behing the vehicle very well at all. After following Ford-Diesel.com which later became Thedieselstop.com and reading all the complaints and problems with the ford powerstroke and transmission problems; I went with the Dodge. They have their problems too but for the most part solid trucks with a very loyal following. After owning and driving mine for nearly a year, it is VERY clear to me why. The Ford and GM diesel pickups are faster (stock) however, hook up a 14,000 lb. load to them and Dodge significantly pulls stronger and get better mileage with a long proven engine. I do wish that Dodge would offer a full crew cab like Ford does. If Ford offered the Cummins and NV5600 6 spd.; I would be driving a Ford. ....

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2003-06-30          58573

Chief,

So your Cummins Diesel and tranny cost 10K extra or close to it????? Well Good OL GM with their 26 dollars an hour UAW assembly workers and Management staff smarter than Einstein must have some miraculous price WEAPON to OFFER a DuraMAx Turbo 8 cylinder Diesel with a custom ALLISON Tranny ALL FOR THE LOW BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICE OF $4000 measly buckerooos extra?????? Darn I'm going to a dealer today to see why a Duramax diesel is ALWAYS in the high to middles 40K bracket and a NON DIESEL NON ALLISON Tranny is in the low 30K price range. Somebody is full of bull feathers BECAUSE GM DONT GIVAWAY A TURBO DIESEL AND AN ALLISON TRANNY FOR 4000 BUCKS. My 1983 Chevy Surburban with a 6.2 dDiesel was a 2700K option, about the same as the 4 wheel drive option. If you think GM is is offering a Turbo Diesel with an Allison Tranny You are looking at the WRONG BASE price. THAT OPTION ADDS 10K TO A TRUCK AND THATS WHY THEY ARE 40 GRAND PLUS. ....

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2003-06-30          58574

Chief, ya I know all the guys I talk to that have the cummings love it. It is a sweet looking truck. I took a major beating with a cadillac STS that was a lemon so it was a roundabout story on how I got into the Duramax. I can honestly say I really like it though and at 50k miles it has been very good to me so far. I took a real shellacing by dodge on a truck when I was in college and I have Not been in a chrysler dealership in 20 years. I guess you can get a good or bad one no matter what brand. Just dont buy the ones made on a monday morning or a friday afternoon. ....

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2003-06-30          58575

Ya know jeff RRR if I didnt know what I was talking about and if I didnt have my invoice in front of me that might rub my rubarb the wrong way. But instead its just plain funny. Is it not laughable that someone who doesn't have one knows more than the fellow who bought one. For your ill informed info one of the reasons MY truck was that expensive was also due to a nearly 5k package of leather and stereo etc. Got that calculator handy bud ? 5 P-L-U-S 5 E-Q-U-A-L-S 10. Or do you need to talk to your wife on the math. Good grief. ....

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2003-06-30          58576

So we got a 5000 option for a 6 cylinfer Turbo and you are still stuck with a MANUAL tranny????? DArn that 4000K GM givaway option for the GM/ Allison sure looks like a winner. I think I'm going to stand in the long line down at the Chevy dealer with all the other guys to buy my 40K plus diesel. Only God knows how that truck got to be 40K plus. Must have had heated mirrors and the satellite radio to push it into the 40K range, LMAO. Maybe I should call GM, Allison and Iszuzu and congratulate them on on a fine engine combo for a measly 4000K. ....

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2003-06-30          58577

DOC,

Price out the SAME exact Truck with a GAS Engine and Hydramatic Tranny. You are are some serious hallucinogenic GM dealer drugs if you think that Dieasel option only cost you 4000K. My Neighbor who is a GM Truck plant employee just last fall bought a 2003 4 separate doors CREW CAB 2500XD 4x4 LOADED with ALLLLLLLLL options with 6.0 GAS and a Hydramatic tranny WITH ALL THE GM PLAN INCENTATIVES Did I forget to say ALL optoins ,,,,,,,,OUT THE DOOR PRICE 33,678.......NOW WHY IN HADES DOES IS YOUR PLAN PRICE AT 41,500 ??????? Do ya think it might be that GMDURAMAX/ ALLISON tranny might have boosted it a WEEEEEE Tad MY LAD??????? ....

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2003-06-30          58578

Now jeffy if you want to play with the other boys son you need to stop playing pocket pool and get that calculator out. You see back here on earth we have this little thing called TAX, TAG Title. Do you think you can figure out the actual cost of the truck ?? OOOPS ! Heres another clue my lost friend. Use your computer, go to the GM web site, follow the steps to build a truck, you know 1-2-3. When you get to the options page you will see that the MSRP for the Duramax is 5k and the tranny is $1,200. Now heres a little tip...are you ready ? Dont PAY MSRP ! I know youre just messing with me. I get the crux of what you are saying. lets see. I got screwd at 0 % lol. Your gas engine gets better fuel economy than the diesel, stock. Gm sucks, blah blah blah. ....

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2003-06-30          58579

Regarding Kubota's 0% interest deal: This is for real. I know auto dealers frequently make up for special financing by jacking up the amount financed, but this does not seem to be the case with Kubota.
When I bought my B7800 a few weeks back, I went with my checkbook in hand ready to pay cash - I had sold my old, paid off home, and had not closed on the new place yet, had a couple hundred G's in the bank for the first time in my life! Anyway, when I negiotiated the deal on my tractor, which from reading other posts here on the boards was a pretty good price, my dealer asked if I wanted to do the 0% financing. I could not get him to come off another penny if I paid cash. The only difference was a processing fee of something like $150. I'll pay a hunderd and fifty bucks anyday of the week to get a true 0% 36 month deal.

Regarding truck mpg: My '01 Cummins Dodge with H.O. motor/NV5600 6 speed gets 13mpg towing around 10K lbs. (2240 JD on heavy duty triple axle trailer), babying it empty I can get 21mpg.

Diesel option cost: On the Dodge, I think the H.O. Cummins was around $3500 list above the base 360 gas burner, around $2500 extra on the invoice price. Seems like the NV5600 tranny was around $1K. No way in the world a Dura/Allie LISTS anywhere near $10K more that a comparable gas burner, assuming ALL other options are the same. It is entirely possible that dealers will not deal on a Duramax nearly as much as on a gasser though.
....

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2003-06-30          58580

Jeffr, I wanted the manual transmission, in fact, I would not have purchase the truck without it. No automatic transmission in ANY of the diesel pickups is suitable for use for heavy pulling. Not the Allison or the Ford Torque Shift and certainly not the Dodge 48RE. As long as a torque coverter is involved you need a radiator the size of another truck to cool the trans. fluid or a lock up torque convert capable of lock up in all gears except 1st and able to handle 650 ft/lb.s of torque. None exist. Been there, done that, got the Tee-shirt and the entire jogging suit & shoes. Another reason I wanted a manual is that it is suitable for use with a Jake Brake. Saves a BUNCH on brakes! Sounds cool to boot! ;o) I researched and followed ALL the diesel pickup makes for nearly 5 years before I made my purchase. In my opinion for what I do with the truck the Dodge Cummins is far and away hands down the best truck. ....

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2003-06-30          58581

jelliot; Wow that is good fuel economy. I thought I was doing good but you Dodge guys are smokeing me. I know with all the gas engines I have had in the past you are getting the same fuel economy under load that I normally got going downhill empty. The only exception is my wifes bronco with a 351. It gets 15 mpg everyday. I dont know what this new Hemi will get and honestly I dont think she really cares. It just looks way tooo cool. I think you got a peach of a deal on the Kubota and even with a $150 fee I would have done the 0% every day of the week and twice on sunday. Chief, Ya I know you are right about the tranny. I just had to have the allison though. Overall the one thing that sells me on the Duramax is volume. It is very quiet. The tranny cooler is bigger than my first apartment.lol. C'mon Chief I'm joining the Dodge club, er well, my wife is any how. we'll see who drives it the most. ....

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2003-06-30          58582

Mark, thats a tough call, but as always it seems as though you got it all figured out. Good luck with your new backhoe and the sale of your BX22. ....

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2003-06-30          58583

I looked at a BX22 yesterday, No tach. mark how do you know where the r's are at for the proper PTO speed ? I think Murf had a good point earlier as well. I am not sure if it applys to tractors but here with trucks in late summer early fall you can work a good deal on in stock vehicles that are last years model. ....

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2003-06-30          58584

OK, before anybody unholsters their mouse I'm jump in & out real fast here with a couple of observations. Doc, I'm sorry you misunderstood me, I was talking about 'Joe Citizen' not somebody who had the benefit of buying under the 'plan', BTW I'm not sure of what 'plan' you're on but I went to gmbuypower.com and got an online quote of $39,187.00 for a 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD fully jammed, including the Duramax/Allison combo, which was BTW, a $6,210.00 option.

As for buying a depreciable asset, that's more reason to do it with before tax income, to maximize the buying power and capitalize on savings. My situation is moot, firstly because I'm in Canada, secondly 'cause everything I buy is a 'business expense', nudge, nudge, wink, wink, so it's ALL before tax income.

As for mileage, we run Ford Powerstrokes in the fleet, mostly F350's with the 6 speed & 3.73 rearend. They get on average, 15-16 mpg, with no trailer or speeding tickets it goes up to about 20 mpg, with a heavy trailer (12k. #) they get about 12 mpg.

However my own unit is kinda like Willie's is I think, somewhat less than stock or EPA approved, it however still manages to get slightly better than stock fuel mileage.

Best of luck. ....

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2003-06-30          58588

Murf; I was operating under the premise that was what you meant. The price difference was for several reasons, not the least of which was some custom painting, hard Tonnou cover, PIAA lights, running lights, Chrome plated SS nef bars, a old balace etc. I was still 4k under sticker and got it all in at 0%. I cant tell you what plan I got because My wifes best friends brother owns a dealer but you get a print out that shows MSRP, dealer invoice, Plan price. Duramx and Allson, were $6,200 MSRP $4,000 my price. The average joe should not wind up paying more than 5k for the combo but I suppose it is all in how you look at the end price when you are done haggeling. I think you would also have to add tax tag and title to the price you showed. As far as takeing money out of your home, well we just dont agree and who knows who is right. I would think it very poor advice for the average joe. That just my opinion, not saying you are wrong and I'm right at all. ....

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2003-06-30          58590

"After following Ford-Diesel.com which later became Thedieselstop.com and reading all the complaints and problems with the ford powerstroke and transmission problems; I went with the Dodge."

Chief that may be a little bit of a misperception. The Diesel Stop has about 30,000 members almost all of whom own at LEAST one Ford PSD. If you look at any of the truck forums you can get scared reading about problems. This is not indicative of the performance of the vast majority of the vehicles, be they Fords , Dodges or Chevys. Take me for example I have probably 1000 posts on the TDS.com and none in the last 6+ mos. I learned all that I could and have zero problems, so you won't see my post "Gee another 1,000 miles trouble free" :)
Just as Ford probably sells about as many diesel pickups as Dodge and Chevy combined. So if Ford has less than twice as many tranny failures as the other brand they may ACTUALLY be doing better. :) Likewise the TheDieselStop.com has exactly twice as many members as the TDR.com so any search that turns up less than twice as many issues may also actually be a better outcome.
As far as tranny issues the auto(99-2002) is OK and the new tranny is supposed to be much better.
I have nothing against Dodge and I looked long and hard at the Dodge but I really need a CC and an auto I could have MAYBE not had the full CC but the Dodge auto tranny reputation seemed worse and then I couldn't have gotten the HO Cummins motor.
I will agree that the Cummins is a TREMENDOUS motor but I thought the overall Ford package was better.

P.S. I think we (me included) may read the forums with an eye towards supporting whatever conclusions or preferences towards brand we already have ;) ....

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2003-06-30          58591

F350. well put. I remember a buisiness law professor who used to say a jury trial is won or lost within the first 30 seconds of the opening statement. The theory being that we all make pre-concieved conclusions and any info taken in after that simply goes to support our pre-drawn conclusions either way. I think the Cummings a sweet engine as well. I like the Duramax but I hear about "all" of the problems. Interstingly enough I have yet to hear them directly from a Duramax owner. Now What I really want is a SWB Reg cab 2500 4x4 Cummings HO, Laramie package. Did you know that dodge is the ONLY manufacturer still makeing a SWB reg cab with a leather option ? The other day I saw the sweetest F350 Diesel but I can not find it listed on the Ford web site. It was ( I Think) a real tree special edition with oversize tires, rims and camo trim. Not bolt on stuff. Way cool. ....

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2003-06-30          58593

That camo truck sounds nice, can't say I've ever seen one. I also didn't know that about the reg cab leather option but come to think of it I guess I never have seen a Ford Lariat reg cab with the leather. I always see CCs. ....

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2003-06-30          58594

Yeah its kinda funny when you think about it. Just a few years ago you couldnt get a four door really with out dooleys. Now the reg cab is almost extinct. I know its a bit of a odd bird but it is great for the wife, easy to park etc. She has a 95 Bronco that she will miss but got a friendly offer for plan price (1% under dealer invoice) on a new Dodge for 60 mos 0%. Kinda hard to turn down. I searched High and low for info on that F350 and by gumbie you can bet I sure wish I had a camera with me that day. It was probably some new proto type and I coulda got enough for the photo to pay off the 2210. lol. We see a lot of that in our area by the test tracks. I pulled up next to it at the gas pump, got out and was checking it out when I realized I forgot My wallet. ooops ! Hightailed it home before sdomething else weird happened and I needed my wallet. Isn't that the way stuff like that always happens ! lol ....

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2003-07-01          58647

Doc, that sounds like a sweet unit you have there indeed.

I'm with Lawman on the Ford, we have run them exclusively now since 1992, yes there WERE some problems, quickly fixed for the most part, the big problem was the electronic 4 speed auto tranny, all it took to fry it was a corroded trailer plug. The ONE I had was at the dealer's to put in a reman tranny EVERY 3 months, I used to kid him we were bring in the truck for a new tranny & check the oil!!! Other than that we don't have any problems other than the usual stuff, sticky calipers, etc. After one year he convinced Ford to take the truck back for FULL PURCHASE PRICE and give me one with a gear tranny. The new 6 speed is great, 4.10 power with 3.55 economy and top-end, they run 1500 rpm's at 80 mph, can't ask for more than that.

Best of luck. ....

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2003-07-01          58666

Murf, It sounds good and looks good. We have to test drive the Hemi next week. Like I said I got beat up pretty damn hard by Dodge when I was in college so I am a hard sell. The Boss says she makes enough $ to buy leather seats and thats that. Who am I to argue with such logic. I do know when were first together she always had to have a convertable or a caddy. Now she likes trucks so the 4k for leather Vs the 40k for a car is ok by meI just wished that Ford was makeing the King Ranch Flare side in a reg Cab. I did have one of the new 5.4 Triton ford engines. No problems at all but a bit enemic in the power dept compared to the 351 in the Bronco. After talkimg to her more last night I am starting to suspect that she doesn't even want a new truck but wants me to take the Bronce so she can have the Duramax. CAN YOU BEAT IT ?? I'm getting hood winked out of my truck by my wife. Am I the only one this stuf happens to ? Heck Murf they all have their problems, shoot I havent owned a truck in the last 10 years that hasn't suffered from sticky calipers, especially after a slushy winter. I guess I'll have to play it by ear, The Bronco has been a great truck but shes been driveing it for eight years now. You know when she bought it cell phones were the size of a brief case and hardlyanyone had PC's let alone the internet. Thats the sales pitch...LOL ....

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2003-07-03          58766

I hate to interrupt the thread evolution here, but here is the latest.

After reading my own posting about what I really want it occurred to me that this might be the time to upgrade the whole outfit.

So... I found a dealer who will work a reasonable trade for the 4100 Gear on a new 4115 HST T/L/B. I am going to try one more time to sell the Green Tractor while waiting for the new one to arrive.

When I get the 4115 I will sell the BX.

The local dealer fritzed out on me again. So I am buying the new tractor out of state. Can you believe someone with a multi-million dollar inventory cannot generate sufficient cash flow to facilitate an $8,000 trade?

Oh well. I tried. ....

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2003-07-03          58768

Mark, the lack of trade ability is not surprising. Most dealers today do not own their inventory, it is financed under what is called "floor plan financing" under which they only have to make payments, interest only, on the inventory they have on hand.

Thus, the bigger the inventory, the bigger the interest payment, the less money there is for buying trades. Notice I said 'buy' because that's exactly what they have to do. When a new unit covered by the floor plan is sold the dealer MUST payout the amount of principal ear-marked for that unit, PERIOD. The floor plan does not cover trades, so if a dealer wants to take one he has to cover the difference out of pocket in order to pay out the financing on the new unit.

Now, around here a lot of established dealers are quite happy to take trades because they often make far more profit on a used unit than a new one, especially if they can move them out quickly and don't have to carry them in inventory for long since there is not as much competition on used units and they can 'beat up' customers on trade prices by manipulating the numbers. You know, the old "I'll give you $5,000 extra for the trade by bumping your new unit by $5,000 too." trick.

Best of luck. ....

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2003-12-28          72522

Mark, I guess you have had the 4115 for about 6 months now. I would be interested in hearing your feedback on the likes, dislikes, good, bad, and the ugly. ....

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2003-12-29          72557

Yup, about 40 hours on the clock now. I have been side tracked into a lot of other stuff so I have not been in the seat or using the backhoe as much as I would like.

The 4115 HST is substantially more stable than the 4100 Gear it replaced and gets measurably better traction.

It is much easier to operate, especially at tasks like grading. Being able to do a full power creep or stop while fiddling with the three point hitch is a snap, now that the clutch is out of the picture.

The 46 backhoe does not quite have the fine feather touch I found on the BX hoe, but in fairness the controls are still new and stiff.

The big deal was the improvement in ride quality. The 4115 beats both former tractors hands down. I no longer feel like a bull rider on an orange bull.

If I could change one thing, it might be to add a middle speed to the transmission. But like everything else there is no free lunch there. I have noticed that the Kubota's with three speed HST's suffer 7-8 hp losses between the engine and the pto. My 2 speed HST loses five hp.

All in all I am quite satisfied with the tractor. ....

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2003-12-29          72593

Mark, I wouldn't be at all concerned about that horsepower dip considering the added performance and power of the three ranges for the added power I've seen in them. There is a bigger horsepower loss from all hydro's that overwhelms the gear drive paper advantage. ....

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