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 09-09-2002, 23:21 Post: 42216
EdC



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I have a JD870 and want to order the manuals that will allow routine maintenance like valve adjustments etc. I have the operators manual and it does not cover engine valve adjustments. The Op manual does have an order sheet for other manuals -- there is an "engine technical manual" and several "FOS" manuals whatever that means covering topics such as engine, electrical, hydraulics, etc. What manuals should be ordered to allow reasonible maintenance. Should serious service work be needed, I would use a dealer or service shop. Thanks for any guidance. Ed






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 09-10-2002, 15:25 Post: 42244
MRETHICS



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Hey Ed,

The Engine Technical Manual will give you the specs you need for valve adjustment. There is another manual for the trans. These, if you are fairly adept at mechanics, will guide you to the light.

The FOS (Fundamentals of Service) can also be of great help. They explain theory, and procedures outlined in the technical manual, only in greater detail.

For example. he FOS manual, may help you diagnose Hyd system problems because it will explain theory of operation. At the same time, it would also explain how to test relief valves. You would use the FOS manual, to determine you had weak relief valve, the tech manual to find the specs for the relief valve and the procedure for removal, the FOS manual to show you how to run a test on the valve.

The FOS manuals a very broad, and not always model specific. But they outline individual procedures that are used in a varity of situations.

we have a full set at our dealership, but on the newer models, They now call them testing and diagnostic manuals.

I'd just get the tech manuals. If you still have some questions. then get the FOS books.






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 09-14-2002, 00:15 Post: 42360
EdC



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Thank You, I will place the order tomorrow. The shop that did the 500 hr service on this tractor (not a JD dealer) decided that the valve adjustment, changing hydraulic oil, FWD drive oil change, were not needed (based on his experience of doing many in the past). An interesting view, I am concerned about not following the Deere instructions to the letter?? Any comments from the forum?






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 09-14-2002, 05:00 Post: 42365
TomG

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Sounds like good advice. I don't do serious maintenance either--at least not until I have a proper shop to work in. In the meantime, setting valves, timing and all sorts of minor repairs are very reasonable to do. A repair manual is needed for specs and procedures. Repair manuals also indicate when special tools are called for. Nobody except dealers generally have them, but at least you get a warning if there's something in a procedure that has to be worked around.

I also have parts manuals. There were a bit pricey but I find them useful since they have exploded parts diagrams even for minor assemblies. I can see every nut bolt and washer used and how they fit together. In addition, my dealer is far away so I order parts by phone. I just can't take a part in and say 'this is what I need.' It's handy that the parts guy and I can look at the same diagrams while figuring out what I need.

I stick pretty close to recommended maintenance and donít even have to worry doing it for the warranty. I also talk to my dealer. I figure thereís a fair amount of research behind the recommendations and thereís little reason to second-guess them. Maintenance procedures do become dated, but I figure that my dealer keeps up on these things. At my dealerís recommendation, I use newer type oils, I didnít pull the injectors at 600 hours as recommended and I do change coolant every two years, which isn't recommended in the manual.

The FOS manuals sound very interesting. I'm going to check if NH has similar manuals.






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 09-14-2002, 09:44 Post: 42369
MRETHICS



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Ed, Any mfgr. service recomendations are based on a broad amount of expeirience and testing. Your situation may vary somewhat.

As far as the fluid changes go, if youve seen my post on synthetic oils, you will know that I am an avid believer fluid analysis. Your answers on fluid change inervals lies within those tests. The oil is sent to a lab, and you will recieve a print-out with wear metal levels, viscosity breakdown, contamination, and additive levels. Also, they will include a recomendation for the next interval , be it longer or shorter. Another plus is, the lab will make a phone call to you if an emergency situatuin arises.

For example, let me give you one of my own experiences.

I have an ag tractor, a John Deere 4640 to be exact. A couple years ago, after draining the crankcase, and sending in a sample, the lab called me 3 days after I mailed it to them. Silicates were extremely high. (Silicates are from dust. The higher the silicate level, the more dust is getting past your eng air filter)

I had replaced the eng air filter at the time I had changed the eng oil that that was at the lab....it was a new filter!!! So I investigated further, and found a pin hole had rubbed in the air pipe between the filter and aftercooler.

Had I not been alerted to the problem, I would have run all spring with that hole there, and probably wasted a motor. And I beleive there is another post on this site where excactly that happend, and...the motor is shot.

As far as valve clearence, I'd have done it anyway. My reasoning for this is the fact that engine usage varies, then so does valve train wear. For instance, an engine operating in it's mid RPM range and 25% load will probably not wear valve train components as fast as an engine operating in it's high RPM range and 85% load. I do almost all of the maintinence on my equipment, valve adjustments included. I've seen times that I felt I wasted my time, but every once in a while, the clearences are way off, and it was in dire need of adjustment.

Deviating from mfgr. maintinence intervals is only acceptable if you have good, hard evidence that indicates such a decision is in order. Everything else is just a rumor.






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 09-15-2002, 06:19 Post: 42399
TomG

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Mr.E: The subject of oil analysis comes up here from time to time, but I don't think a testing company was ever identified.

My impression is that testing usually is done by equipment fleet operators who extend recommended oil change intervals. However, I've always thought testing would be a pretty good idea for private tractor owners for the reason you described.






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 09-17-2002, 15:17 Post: 42542
MRETHICS



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TomG,
Most Oil Companies, Eng. and equip. Mfgrs will provide this service, for a small charge of course, usually $10 US or under. I am useing Shaeffer Brand products, and they provide sample kits with each barrel....no charge.

At first I was sceptical...kinda like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse, so I divided each sample and sent a sample into J.D. as well. After a few tests that produced almost excact results, I decided it was safe to reley on the Oil Co. at at a price I could live with (free).

You can learn very little from one test. Unless of course there is an extreme problem( such as a high silicate number, as I read in my above post).

A base line must be established. What you are looking for is trends.

In the cases of everything in my fleet of farm equipment, after a years worth of analysis, it apearred that I had been draining oil that was well within paremeters. I was changeing too soon.

I increased my drain intervals in 10% increments. And would maintain those intervals for 3 drains. Then after 3 consecutive similar samples, I would increase the interval another 10%...and so on. Until I reached the threshold. As it turns out, viscosity breakdown was the limiting factor, in every engine in my fleet. Wear metals and other contamination levels were still well within acceptable levels when viscosity became to low.

Those results tell us three things fo sure,
No. 1) My Engine was wearing just like it should.

No. 2) Filtration was doing it's job superbly

No. 3) I could use a heavier weight oil.
( I chose to remain with 15w40 instead of
switching to a 30w due to possible cold starting
problems)

With that baseline, on the few instances I expeirinced a high level in one or more columns, I was able to diagnose the fatiged component, before said component failed. or caused subsequent damage. Another example,

A high fuel dilution level on a John Deere 404 eng. in a 4020 Could be caused by three things things.

No. 1) Fuel transfer pump leaking fuel into lube
system due to a failed seal or diaphram.

No. 2) Injection pump drive seal failure

No. 3) Partialy plugged injection nozel

It turned out to be No. 2. and, The sample picked up the fuel long before my nose would have.

The longer I sampled, the more I learned.

In the case of my compact, my drain intervals actually decreased, due to condensation from low usage, and normal ambiant temp changes expeirienced in my area.

But overall, I used less oil and filters per year on my farm.

As far as increased fuel economy, I dunno. It's hard to compare fuel usage in my farm operation. Conditions change from year to year and sometimes they change dureing the same season. A field I plowed two years ago, may pull harder this next year due to several factors I won't get into right now.

Hope you find this interesting enough to read all the way through it.








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 09-18-2002, 07:58 Post: 42561
TomG

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Mr. E. Yes I did read all the way, and it sounds like there are many good reasons for individuals to think about testing. My main reason is that disposal of used oil has gotten so difficult that I don't want to change oil unnecessarily. However, the ability of tests to identify premature wear and changes in maintenance routine that might be better than factory recommendations make testing even more interesting.

I made a rare drop-in to my distant dealer yesterday since I was in the area. Bought a bunch of 'odds and sods' and my wife bought me a new seat for my birthday--ahh but itís more romantic than it might seem. I also asked if NH had the equivalent of JD FOS manuals. They probably don'tótoo bad.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

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