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Captain B
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 53 West central New Hampshire
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2002-07-17          40458

I note a lot of discussion on rear counterweights. I have a related issue. I have a JD990 with six 40lb. Quik-Tatch weights mounted on the front. I cut a large, steep hill (maybe 8 acres). The front end comes lose cutting up hill and threatens to buck up, particularly on turns. Deere has an auxiliary front weight bar which apparently mounts 40lb. or 70 lb. Quik-Tatch weights. Anyone have experience with this added front weight bar and the 70lbs weights? Are the 70lb weights too much for quick changes to mount the FEL? Any suggestions for a home-designed rig that mounts on the front?

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-07-17          40459

Have you tried mowing up these hills with the loader on? I often tell customers to run with the loader when on steep grades rather than purchase the weights. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-07-17          40463

I mow now with a JD4700 and LP84" mower (heavy). Used to mow with a JD1070 and 72" JD272 mower. Or a JD516 cutter. On hills, including going uphill.
Always used 8-40# suitcases in front, but it still got loose in front going uphill. Now I'm using 4-70#'s and 4-40#'s, and haven't had the light frontend problem.
The 70#'s aren't too bad to drop on the front, and they fit fine w/o interfering with anything.
Despite postings of cost being $1/lb, many dealer networks buy and freight-in bulk shipments of both size suitcases. I've found them at $20/40lb, and bought the 70# at $48. A good dealer will take the 40# size in on trade.
Mowing with FEL isn't exactly the most desireable setup. You'd be sitting there with long "outriggers" front-to-back, so turning and mowing around corners, trees, etc, would be challenging. Cuts off view of the grass ahead, too.
jim ....

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BCMarriott
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4 Mishawaka, Indiana
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2002-07-17          40473

I also have a 990. I recently purchased an MX-6 cutter and had the same balance problems with only the 6-42 pound front weights. I have R4 tires all around, and my solution was to have the front tires filled with foam. This added 130 pounds/tire and eliminated the balance problem completely. The added benefit is the front tires are now puncture proof. I had it done to a previous tractor and was happy with the result. I can't tell any difference with the ride, so its not like they are so hard you will be bounced around any more than normal. ....

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Captain B
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 53 West central New Hampshire
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2002-07-18          40481

The replies have been very helpful. BC--I have loaded rear R4s also. Never considered loading with foam. It appears to be about even between 6x42# suitcase weights and two loaded fronts. Loaded would be easier when switching to the FEL. I'm in New Hampshire. Don't know who does foam up here. What are the advantages/disadvantages of foam vs. calcium cloride? What did it cost you for foam in both tires? ....

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BCMarriott
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4 Mishawaka, Indiana
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2002-07-18          40497

I considered calcium chloride, which was cheaper by far. Only problem is that the weight was about 80 pounds per tire, plus I have had leak/rust issues with previous tractors. I also have many locus (spelling?) trees with thorns, and wanted to kill two birds with one stone. Price here was around $1/pound including new tubes. I have a front end loader too, so I was concerned about ease of on/off. I believe there is something called Rim-Guard out there that is made from beet pulp. It won't freeze or rust your rims, but no one in this area carried it. It is also lighter than foam. Hope this helps.... ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-07-19          40501

As I understand, foam filled tires have to be cut off when a tire needs to be changed. Although that sounds difficult, it may not be too bad.

I've heard some people say that foam filled tires give rough rides, but BC says his ride is normal. I wonder if the people who mention rough rides are talking about roading their tractors at max speed and if they might find their rides just fine at normal working speeds. I drive my tractor about 10-miles at max speed along a highway a couple times a year on my turf tires. The ride is rough enough in places that I have to cut throttle to maintain control and steering. A rougher ride wouldn't be good for me, but roading the tractor probably isn't much of an issue for many owners.

I question just came to mind. I wonder how the foam is installed. I'm thinking that there must be some way of truing the tires. Any out-of-round probably is permanent once the foam sets-up. Again, out-of-roundness probably is mostly an issue when roading a tractor. For a couple of dumb reasons I left my loader and heavy 3ph forklift up for several days in cool weather. I had to take the tractor a mile along the highway and the ride was like a horse with a bad gait for the first half. I didn’t notice the problem until I got up to speed.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2002-07-19          40514

Tom, tire foam is an excellent product, IF, like anything else, it is installed and used correctly. I have all of our tires, especially on the 'heavy' equipment, foam-filled. The product we use is called 'Tyre-fill' I believe. The dealer calls it a 'transitory' type of foam, by that I mean it is pumped into the tire as a liquid, then a catylist is added to cause it to solidify. If removal is required a further agent can be added causing the foam to revert to a liquid to be pumped out, it is not however re-usable, but at least the tire is able to be dismounted. The product must be pumped in with the tire lying flat on the ground with the valve facing up to allow the air to bleed out. The product never really goes solid, it just basically gets to a jelly consistency and if nobody told you it was in the tires I doubt you would be able to tell from the ride quality (or lack thereof). Best of luck. ....

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Frank R Taylor
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2002-07-19          40517

I do like what Art recommends, I mow my steep slopes with the FEL mounted.

It would scare me to death to have the front end get light or buck. I have been known to throw a couple of 50# sacks in the FEL too. When you have that much weight low and out in front of the tractor it is a lot safer climbing stright up slopes than with just the equivalent amount of weights attached.

When the loader is kept low, as it should be, there is no problem with seeing ahead although you do have to change your technique mowing up to fences and around trees but it's no real hardship and really doesn't take any longer.

I drove a tractor with true foam filled tires (not the antipuncture gel stuff) and the ride was a little harder than normal but when you ride a tractor with R4's, the ride is pretty hard to begin with. I can't remember exactly what the cost to have them filled was but it was high. If you have a problem with punctures and hate changing tires or can't afford the downtime, it might be worth it but surely not just for stability - I would have thought that weights would have been a lot cheaper. ....

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Chris R in IN
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2002-07-19          40522

When I was shopping for a Bush Hog. The dealer knew I had alot of steep hills to mow. He suggested that I not use the top link. It works fine. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-07-20          40528

Murf: That sounds like a very interesting product. Certainly more interesting than the stories I've heard about people sawing off their old tires. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-07-20          40530

My impression is that flexible top-links or boom and chain rigs generally work better than a standard top-link for mowing. Standard top-links work OK for brushing.

It might be useful to keep in mind that the original purpose of the 3ph was to reduce tractor over-turns that can result from large sudden increases in draft (such as hitting a rock with a plow). I think that's more a plowing than a mowing issue but I suppose there is some chance of snagging something with a mower.

Compression of the standard top-link from a ground engaging implement helps hold down the front wheels. I believe the higher pin positions on a top-link bracket provide more leverage and are used for heavy draft implements. I suspect the higher positions also provide more leverage for suspended weight on the 3ph to lighten the front end, which isn’t always a good thing. Don’t know: I suppose many rotary cutters constitute both a heavy transport load as well as a potentially heavy draft and the best pin location isn’t obvious.
....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-07-20          40543

When using a mower, typically rotary cutter type, that is held up by lower 3pt arms and a rear wheel, approx half the weight is loaded on the tractor rear wheels. Using weights in front while mowing uphill is to counter the shift in the tractor's weight to the rear wheels, which (in addition to 1/2 of the mower's weight) is what makes the front end loose.
Removing the top link of a 3pt connection to a mower has the effect of eliminating the occasional shift in that part of the weight of the mower that is carried by the rear wheel. This occasional shift only occurs when the ground is uneven and the mower goes over a rise, which isn't necessarily tied to uphill mowing.
If the mower is a finish type that rides on its own wheels, the only time any of it's weight is loaded on the trac's rears is when a severe dip/rise in the ground is encountered, again not necessarily a hill-function.
By the way, I thought the design purposes of a 3ph over a 2ph was to enable lifting of implements off the ground and to adjust implements' angle?
jim ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-07-21          40549

Jim: True enough that I've picked up most of my tractor history from forums like this and from people more knowledgeable than myself. The safety aspect of the 3ph is a story I've heard a number of times. Ferguson patented the 3ph and licensed it to Ford and maybe others. I don't know if this was Ferguson before Massey. The 3ph does of course allow implements to be lifted and angles to be changed, and I think the top-link compression also provides more safety in sudden high draft situations. It's probably a chicken-egg sort of thing, and the answer is what was the original motivation that led to the 3ph. Maybe the answer is in knowing if the first implements used with 3ph's were still the old pull type implements.

Another bit of tractor history I picked up is the difference between Ford and Fordson tractors. A ford, probably a son of Henry I, started a tractor company and then found that the tractors couldn't be name 'Ford.' So, the tractors were called Fordson until the company became part of Ford Motors after which the 'son' was dropped. I was surprised to find that Fordsons were made into the ‘50’s and one model used a diesel engine. I think there’s a thread in the archives where we figured out that some WWII era Fordsons were designed to use either gasoline or coal oil (kerosene) as fuel.
....

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