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4400 HST Safety Problem

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davebc
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-05-13          38571

Caution if you have a 4000 series Hydro with "cruise control"!

I have a 1999 JD 4400 HST with a potentially serious safety issue that showed up last winter. Our HST tractor has a useful feature the "cruise control", a 3 position switch on dash that holds the speed contol at your choice of speeds until you turn it off or hit the brake. Useful for field mowing/spraying to rest your foot from the constant pressure against the strong spring in the footfeed.

Our tractor is always stored outside.

Last winter during heavy, (normal in Oregon) rain a serious problem developed.
Apparently water leaked in to the switch and the cruise feature was activated without warning and without the ability to shut it off with the brake.
The really interesting part was this happened while my wife and I were cleaning horse stalls in quite close quarters.

This normally very controlable tractor, take your foot off and it stops, suddenly decided to "keep right on trucking" until I would either kill the engine with brakes or turn off the switch. Nearly hit the stall wall the first time it happened.

Happened several more times that day and the next few. The clue was the green indicator light for the cruise control would glow with different intensity and when it got bright enough, would lock the foot feed in position. Here we go again. Rapidly operating the switch would eventually get the light to dim enough to where the unit would release.

This also happened to our neighbor who feeds for us sometime and was trying to move some hay when he also went for an unexpected ride.

Tempory fix, cover the dash during the rainy season, the switch dries out and no further problem. There is no separate fuse to pull to disable the unit.
Complained to dealer, and spoke with the factory regarding this problem. Factory solution, "cut the wire" to the magnet that locks the footfeed and we will get back to you. (right!!!)

This was Feb/March and nothing more from factory.

Also filed a complaint with US Consumer Products Safety Board. They did a tele interview with me, but nothing more from them yet.
The switch is located on top of the dash and faces up to the rain.

Just be careful and keep that switch dry. Hopefully a better switch design or cover will be forthcoming.


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JDMan
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2002-05-14          38585

That's why I didn't by a new Ten Series.. to many electric switches now!! ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-05-14          38588

Unless it is totally sealed if its electric and exposed to the water it will eventually corrode and go bad.
I keep my machine in the barn but will let it stand out once in a while if I have an implement attached. Have been caught once in a while on the tractor in a sudden shower.
A totally sealed switch is expensive and if the case is plastic, normally ABS, the case is not sealed as the water will migrate through the plastic.
It seems that the JD people are taking leads from the lawntractor group. It is a little easier to store a lawntractor inside. I went looking for accessories the other day for the 4000 series and the info was all under lawn care in their site. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-05-14          38589

Sounds like you made all of the right calls. Hard to believe that anyone would be so cavalier about a potentially lethal design defect. You might keep one of those little squirt cans of WD 40 on the tractor. WD 40 has the unique property of displacing water without affecting the electrical conductance. It will “dry” the switch contact points and flush away any other materials that may have accumulated there. Good luck and keep us posted. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2002-05-14          38595

It sounds like a similar switch and cruise setup as my New Holland TC33D. Thanks for the tip. I keep my tractor inside but I still wash it now and then. ....

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DavidJ
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Posts: 62 Alabama
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2002-05-14          38598

I can't believe that all manufacturers don't put rubber booted switches in those places. I had a pushbutton on my JD that kept giving me probs until I replaced it with a sealed one. ....

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MRethics
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-05-14          38602

Please contact your dealer with this potentialy seriuos safty issue.
He can report it to the proper people at JD.

Believe it or not, Deere wants to here of these kinds of problems, in order to make needed improvements.

As much as we all want things to perform without any glitches, glitches still happen.

John Deere has a major program for saftey issues such as you described. If you have a good dealer, ( and I hope you do) he will know where to report it. And hopefully.....an improvement can be made. Maybe even at no cost to customers, JD has had several improvements over the years that have been added at no cost to old units. Covers to prevent jumping nustral switches on ag tractors for example.

Thanks for filling us in.

....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-05-14          38603

MREthics
If you read Daves post on the problem you would realize that he has contacted his dealer and the dealer has reported it to the factory. The factory reported back with a temperary fix, which is basicly cut the wire to the switch so you now have no cruise feature on the tractor.
Dave has waited the proper or improper period of time considering the problem could be lethal to others, to have the junior engineer to write a service bulletin, look through the part bin for a better switch and supply Dave with the proper piece of equipment that should have been on the tractor initially. Dave is now worried as the grass is up to his ____ and he has the prospect of holding the spring while is foot goes to sleep for X hours as he cuts the grass or sprays the trees. Cutting the dealer BS.
Peters ....

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mrETHICS
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2002-05-15          38641

ok peters..point well taken.

A follow up to the dealer and the factory is definatly in order.

I know 60 days seems like a long time...and it is. But wheels sometimes turn slowely.

I can offer no excuse. No BS.

I was involved is a case simalar to this about 25 years ago.
to me.....the solution seemed simple.

I made several calls checking on progress and a solution. The problem was resolved....Finally! But I was educated on the process.

My only answer...and I will admit it is a feeble one....do not give up! Be adult about it...be tenacious.

In the case I was involved with, the company that made the valve was working on the problem within days after the complaint. Then the legal dept. became involved and would not let them start installing new valves untill the repalcement valve was tested in it's new application. This kind of testing took alot of logistics, and was six months before completion.

I am not standing up for anyone, nor putting anyone down. Just giveing my expeirience.

Consumer Products Safty Board was quick to listen , but appaerantly they don't work any faster than anyone else at these things.

We have sold several of these tractors, I have a couple customers who live close by and the tractors are not shedded when not in use. I warned them of the potential problem, and like the factory suggested, we cut the wire. To this writting, neither of the customers has expeirienced the problem described.

I am trying to follow up on this also.....I have a concern here too....my own customers!!!

Please keep me informed if anyone heres anything ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2002-05-15          38647

Yeh, wait till a little kid gets run over and see how fast they solve the problem! ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-05-15          38648

The safety solution was simple, cut the wire, the repair is also but not for a large ponderous company like JD. ....

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kay
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2002-05-15          38655

How about just replacing the defective switch with a new one, and either put one in that is waterproof, (maybe even relocate the switch), and/or pack it with di-electric grease? I will be looking at my JD4300 and see if I can improve it before anything unforseen happens. I use the cruise control a lot.
Thanks for the heads up, though. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-05-15          38657

At least we found out that someone at JD has done something with the information. At least the info has apparently filtered back through the dealer network instructing them to cut the wire. Unfortunately that does not mean it will get down to the tractor owners before someone is maimed or killed. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-05-16          38677

I'm happy to know about the problem; that a dealer has taken action on behalf of his customers and the manufacturer is at least moving in the plodding abstract manner of modern large organizations.

Guess I'm just all together too happy today. However, it doesn't mean that large corporations shouldn't behave like individuals and be responsible and accountable for their behaviour. In much of the world corporations are identified by SA rather than corp. or ltd. SA stands for 'anonymous society' which is a pretty good description and also an explanation for their behaviour. I might wish for better, but the corporation is what we’ve got.
....

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John R.
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2002-05-18          38765

By this time I would suggest following up with your dealer again and ask them to call the John Deere Dealer Technical Assistance Center again to follow up and confirm the original instructions. The suggestion to "cut the wire" (if that is what they really said) doesn't strike me as coming from the factory. If you follow the wire coming from the electro-magnet you will see that after about 9 inches it has an electrical connector. There is no need to cut the wire. Just unplug it. ....

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davebc
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-05-19          38786

Yes it did come from the factory to me, my ears, as I was relating what happened on the phone, to the factory personal, (engineer?), from the dealer's phone after the dealership owner first related the problem to them.
"cut the wire".
Nothing more from factory, dealer or US CPSB to date. Will post any action or advisements.

One comment from the dealer when I was there Friday, 5/17: Well they don't get rain like we do here in Oregon. Didn't the Mid West just have flooding rains and something like 3 inches in 24 hours in Il and ID?
Keep those switches dry. Davebc ....

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Haras Lucero
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10 Kingston, TN
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2002-05-19          38787

I just looked at my new 4310 and noticed a whole bank of switches. All open to the elements.

A thought: Wally World sells a large variety of plastic boxes. Find one of the right size and invert it over the switches while parked. Kind of "Rube Goldberg" but should keep the rain off. Let the box rest at a slight angle and that should take care of most of the condensation. A short bungee cord should take care of the wind.

Kind of silly to do this an expensive tractor, but sometimes necessity IS the mother of invention! ;-)

Bill Kambic ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-05-19          38788

John;
On Daves behalf, as the problems is safety related the engineer instructed him to cut the wire. If he did not want him to unplug the wire as some one could see the wire unplugged and reconnect it or it could touch the ground and short out.
Peters ....

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DavidJ
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Posts: 62 Alabama
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2002-05-19          38790

I agree with most of this thread. The one thing I'm concerned about is the cutting of the wire. Dave said that an engineer fron JD told him to cut the wire. This is very odd to me. I could have understood of he had told the dealer to cut and tape the wire and label it not to be reconnected but, to tell the customer just to cut the wire. I would be very hesitant to do that, and yes, I am an electrical engineer so I have some experience in how things are handled. As for the statement Peters made about it shorting out if it's unplugged I have to disagree with, unplugging is the prefered method. All the manufacturers that I know of use shrouded connectors. So a cut wire is more apt to short out than an unplugged one. Just my take on this. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-05-20          38805

Thanks for the note David. I just realized that the shrouded female connector is supposed to go on the hot side of the connection. I just realized that I probably reversed a few automotive crimp connectors.

I've done a bunch of residential wiring (all inspected) and I'd never make that sort of mistake in residential wiring. Funny how the mind doesn't necessarily transfer skills from one type of work to something just slightly different. Well, I suppose I better check how many connectors I should turn around. Fortunately it's just one aux lighting circuit.
....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-05-20          38810

David;
I wass thinking it was a single wire rubber wet location plug, similar to the bar plug used on a trailer hook up. Silly me, if they did not get the switch right why would they get the connector right.
Peters ....

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DavidJ
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Posts: 62 Alabama
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2002-05-20          38813

Peters,
You have a good point. If they wouldn't spend a few extra cents on a rubber booted switch they probably wouldn't spend the time or money to install the proper connector.

The main thing is that DavePC gets his problem corrected swiftly and properly. And maybe help keep a few others from harm along the way. ....

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