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 02-20-2001, 14:01 Post: 24430
Craig Dashner



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I was looking at the rear of my tractor the other day and noticed something. If you look at the back of the tractor, just to the right of the axle/differential housing, there is an aluminum cover, that looks like it is a cover for auxilary(3rd) hydraulics. Has anyone else noticed this? Is that what it is? I thought a 3 SCV was not available, but it looks like basic plumbing for it, but I assume you would need to add a valve to control it? Does anyone know the answer to this?Thanks






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 02-20-2001, 22:23 Post: 24461
Jim Youtz



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Craig, I don't know any more about this than you. But I'd be interested in what you find out. Could you please post your answer or email me if you find out any info?






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 02-21-2001, 13:34 Post: 24491
Craig Dashner



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I called my dealer (probably what I should have done in the first place) and found the answer. What I was told is there are two options for the 4100 to have rear hydraulic valves. Option 1- Remote rear(I think that is what he said) is a kit that hooks into the loader hose kwik connects and routes the lines to the back, still utilizing the loader controls. Option 2-Auxillary rear hydraulic kit (~$200) which connects into the hydraulic system (sounds like through the cover I saw) which provides lines to the rear. This set-up would require an open center valve.

So it is possible to have 3 hydraulics on this thing. The way it was explained to me was the Aux Hyd kit, provides 2 lines to the back with the quick couplers and goes to an open center attachment. When not hooked to an open center attachment the 2 lines get connected with a (included in the kit) u-shaped hose with quick couplers at each end. If you wanted a third valve, you would need to get the aux hyd kit and run the lines into an open center valve(deere does not have this supposedly, I find that hard to believe) Then you would have the 3rd set of hydraulics. With the proper plumbing, I am sure you could route lines up front for a grapple set-up or power angle on a loader plow without disabling the bucket cylinders.

Some of you hydraulic pro's out there, does all of this sound legit? Are open center valves common or uncommon?






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 02-21-2001, 14:00 Post: 24492
Bird Senter

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 ? on 4100

Craig, that sounds much like my Kubota B2710. The dealer I bought it from knew the manual showed an optional rear hydraulic outlet, but didn't know anything else about it. The workshop manual also only mentions there being one. The parts manual shows it. It seems that most folks who add the hydraulic tip 'n tilt (or top 'n tilt) to their 3-point hitch use the power beyond port from their front end loader. I didn't want to do that, so I bought the optional outlet (just under $70) and I'm using it. And yes it does require an open center valve, which I think (may be wrong) is about as common as a closed center valve.






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 02-21-2001, 14:37 Post: 24493
DFB



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Craig, that aluminum cover is the end cap for the SCV. Removing it gives access to the valve spools. Under the large caps are check valve assemblies. To the left of the SCV body facing down are two plugs. According to the parts manual the available rear auxiliary hydraulic kit(part # BM19290)is plumbed in there.






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 03-04-2001, 17:43 Post: 25023
Doug



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 ? on 4100

Hi. I have a 4100HST with the optional rear hydraulic kit. I plan on using it for a log splitter - most are open center valve controlled. It is a very tidy installation with a short line to connect back when not in use. Good luck! Doug






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 03-05-2001, 01:57 Post: 25037
JonB



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Doug, The rear hydraulics on my 4100 connect to the FEL quick connects--and the FEL stick controls the rear when it is connected. This means I do not have full use of the FEL when I'm running hydraulics on the rear. Of course I'm don't like this. How does your rear hydraulic kit work? JonB






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 03-05-2001, 07:01 Post: 25039
TomG

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Here are a couple of basic ideas that I believe are correct and hope might help. Most compact tractors use open-centre hydraulic systems. Oil circulates continuously from the pump to the reservoir through the hydraulic lines and components. When no cylinder is operated, only low pressure is present. The pressure to operate a cylinder is developed when a control valve is operated. The control valve closes the centre and opens pressure and return lines to the cylinder. High pressure is not developed beyond the operated valve. For this type of system to work, there can be only one path for open centre flow, and all control valves are hooked into the line in series. It's not necessarily an absolute, but if several control valves are operated simultaneously, only the first valve in the line develops much pressure. For most practical purposes, priority goes to the first valve in the line that is operated, and only one hydraulic function at a time actually operates. I believe this basic situation is true irrespective of whether a power beyond or a aux rear option is installed.

I realize that there are fancy demand and priority proportioning valves where several functions at a time are possible. It's just that I know my tractor doesn't have them (except for the PS priority valve), and I don't think compacts in general have such valves. My tractor has a selection for remote (3ph) or aux system on a diverter valve that is part of the manifold block. In 'aux' position, an external return line to the reservoir must be supplied and the 3ph won't operate. My tractor is plumbed so the aux high pressure runs to a 3-valve SCV assembly. The SCV output goes to the remote input so the 3ph works when none of the SCV valves are operated. The 3ph remote system supplies the return line. There is a dedicated control valve for the rear hydraulic lines, which are fitted with female quick disconnects. I believe this is a very common hook-up (I omitted a description of the 3rd, or low pressure lines from the SCV's) In this hook-up, an additional SCV assembly could be hooked in series anywhere in the open centre flow line. I imagine that the rear option mentioned is simply a convenient way to install a separate SCV in the line. It would carry the open centre flow, so the 'u' hose would have to be connected when an open centre valve isn't connected to the real lines. Use of the loader PB port is another way of doing the same thing. There are some advantages to the rear option. For example, I have to run my backhoe (which has its own SCV) from the rear control valve, which I have to hold open with a bungee cord. The advantage of my set up is that implements that do not have their own valves (top-link cylinders, snow blower chutes etc.) are simple plug-ins. I know this is long. Hope it helps.






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 03-06-2001, 00:10 Post: 25073
JonB



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I've never used a mid-mount mower and I'm not clear what an "open center valve" is. Where is the control located when you add the rear hydraulics kit option? If I'm understanding this right, it might be a perfect control for a telescoping top link on the 3PH?






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 03-06-2001, 03:27 Post: 25074
TomG

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Open centre and closed centre are types of hydraulic systems rather than a particular component. Any control valve or 3ph is a open or a closed centre type. Most compact tractors have open centre systems, but from an operator's view, both types operate pretty much the same.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 24430 Filter by Poster:
Bird Senter 1 | Craig Dashner 2 | DFB 1 | Doug 1 | Jim Youtz 1 | JonB 2 | TomG 2 |




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