4100 metal shavings: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review 4100 metal shavings: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 01-25-2001, 22:24 Post: 23692
Eric D.



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 4100 metal shavings

Hello 4100 owners. I have 55 hrs on my 4100 hydro. I love the tractor and loader combo at this point. I recently changed the transmission fluid and filters. When I removed the rear transmission filter screen I was dissatisfied to see many manufacturing metal shavings sucked into the screen by themagnet. These weren't wear shavings but drilling shavings from drilling the castings.I called the dealer and they claim this was normal. They said at times they have filled a half coffee cup full of metal shavings on larger models. I ask if other manufactures (Kubota, New Holland, etc) had the same shavings. The dealer said yes. This particular dealer is also a Kubota dealer. My question is, do I have reason to be concerned? Do you think I'll have problems in the future? The only problem I have hadhas been bad leak down in the lift cyclinder of my 410 loader. The dealer rebuilt bothcyclinders and it works great. Is it possible some of the smaller shavings couldhave filtered into the loader cyclinders anddamage the seals? Thanks for any input






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 01-26-2001, 06:04 Post: 23693
TomG

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 4100 metal shavings

I think it's common to find considerable metal during the break-in oil change. Perhaps it says something about modern manufacturing processes, but I think it's common. On the other hand, maybe it's not just modern manufacturing. When I removed the cylinders on my '69 Honda 750 motorcycle, I was surprised to find an area under the cylinder gasket that was still packed with casting sand. I don't think the leaking loader cylinders could be attributed to metal in the oil unless the hydraulic oil filter wasn't installed correctly. All oil to the hydraulic system goes through the filter before going to the cylinders.






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 01-26-2001, 06:58 Post: 23699
Roger L.



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 4100 metal shavings

Eric, I'm glad to hear that your 4100 is treating you right.
You hear about this a lot these days....about metal shavings not being completely cleaned out of the castings. It must be related to modern manufacturing, because 30 years ago it was unheard of. Like you, nobody likes it, but the good news is that I can't recall any failures that could be attributed to the metal shavings. Trash left in the machine from manufacturing is one of the main reasons why every experienced mechanic recommends that you change the oil and filters at very low hours. Check the archives, the subject has come up several times. On a new machine I'd change them after the first couple of hours of use, again at 25 to 50 hours, and then go to regular intervals.
On the seal failures that I have seen, most of them have been seals that were defective from the beginning or were installed poorly. The next most common cause is shafts that are not concentric to the seal body or have too much play. I can't recall one that was ruined by trash in the oil; my feeling is that it is not very high on the scale of things to worry about.






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 01-26-2001, 09:37 Post: 23703
Ted Kennedy



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 4100 metal shavings

Eric, Tom, and Roger, You are correct about the source of the metal contamination coming from the housing drilling operation. I'm a tooling engineer for an aerospace company and work closely with manufacturing engineering. This condition is unacceptable in the aerospace industry but is commonplace in automotive manufacturing where the loss of a gearbox or transmission will not result in the loss of life. In aerospace manufacturing we generally flush the casting a least twice, once after the drilling operation and again after the final surface finish operation. All holes and areas are flushed using an enviromentally green solvent. The Japanese, long considered the masters of assembly line manufacturing, will not add an extra operation if they don't feel it necessary, even if the potential for an occasional product failure results. It is a calculated risk they feel comfortable with, if something breaks because of it, then the warranty system has been "engineered" to take into account the random incident. We consumers, on the other hand, have to aborb the grief that goes along with the repair. Incidentally, you are lucky that your housing is steel or cast iron, many are aluminum and the shavings aren't picked up by the magnet. Such is the state of today's modern high rate production.






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 01-26-2001, 18:17 Post: 23714
Eric D.



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 4100 metal shavings

I would like to thank everyone for replying to my metal shavings issue. I just signed up with CTB and was suprised to see such a quick response, it's great. It sounds like it's normal. I also e-mailed John Deere on Wednesday night. Today when I got home there was a message on my answering machine from a John Deere Rep. She said she was reviewing my e-mail and would like me to contact her on the 800#. I think this says a lot for Deere&Company. I'll let you what she says. Got to go, just got two inches of snow, not much but enough of a excuse to get on my tractor.






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 01-26-2001, 21:37 Post: 23720
Mike S.



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 4100 metal shavings

Eric--Although Roger could not remember any failures related to these metal filings, metallic contamination has been an issue with some of the 4200, 4300 and 4400 Deeres and has been mentioned before. My 4400's transmission needed to be replaced due to metallic contamination--the suction screen was full of metal filings, the hydro filter was clogged with fine metallic dust and the hydro transmission fluid also contained a lot of fine metallic dust. JD DTAC recommended a transmission fluid change on my tractor at 50 hours instead of the much longer interval mentioned in the manual AND they also issued a much larger hydraulic fluid filter. This is my experience and does not necessarily relate to your situation with your 4100 which was manufactured by Japanese workers in Japan instead of the JD workers in Augusta, GA. There have been several postings about metallic contamination in the 4200+ in the compact tractor forums, but I have never seen any postings about metallic contamination in the 4100 Deeres. Good luck






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 01-27-2001, 09:09 Post: 23728
cutter



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 4100 metal shavings

Eric, I changed the oil on my 4100 at the first filter change interval even though the dealer didn't suggest it be done when I asked (I don't remember what that was, 50hrs??). My kubota dealer not only suggested both hyd. oil and filter change at around 50 hours, but supplied the filter, oil and mechanic to do it. I did notice shavings in both but never experienced any problems. A fella that lives down the road from me is a J/D mechanic and told me that their dealership was experiencing an above average transmission failure rate on those machines. Take that for what it is worth, they had only been on the market for a year at the time and that is one dealer, not a good sampling. I did not have a problem except the hydro pedals progressively became more resistant to pressure even with good lubrication. It appears to be a well built machine, I liked mine. My most recent purchase, a TC29D doesn't recommend an oil change for several hundred hours. I did it after the first mowing season at 80hrs. This machine has two (expensive) hyd. oil filters on it and I found absolutely no evidence of shavings in the oil or anywhere else. I went with N/H multi-vis oil which helps in the cold. Next change both the engine and trans. get synthetic. Happy Motoring!






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 01-27-2001, 09:27 Post: 23729
Roger L.



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Hmm...Mike, I see what you are saying. Maybe it would help if we drew a distinction between metal "filings" from failing components, and metal "shavings" from incomplete cleaning of the drilling and machining of the castings. I remember your transmission problems - glad that you got the entire transmission replaced! Did JD step up via warranty? My impression is that you were seeing a lot of small particles clogging everything and of course that is typical when a system goes bad for some reason and starts to grind itself up. From what Eric is seeing, his shavings are from a different reason, and one doesn't necessarily lead to the other.
I still think that Eric's shavings ought to go away without damage with a couple of oil and filter changes. If not, there is another issue. In my opinion, no major manufacturer has ever specified an oil change as soon as the machine is run for a day....maybe because to do so would imply that they are not cleaning the new assemblies well enough. In spite of this, every experienced mechanic that I know changes the oil on their own machines several times at low hours for that very reason. How about it? Any of you old mechanics want to jump in here?






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 01-27-2001, 14:40 Post: 23734
Mike S.



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Roger--the metallic contamination, as JD calls it, came from not cleaning out the millings from the machining of one of the castings. It is my belief that my tractor was NOT unique in this issue. Did JD notify owners or recall 4200+ tractors that might have had metallic contamination, bad front end, etc.--of course not. BUT, thanks to a very supportive dealer and six trips of my 4400 back to the dealer for JD authorized warranty repairs and upgrades, it received a new transmission, new brakes, new PTO, new transmission site glass, new dash glass, new front end, and all of the upgrades (mostly linkages)that were available. Now, for the first time in the 19 months of its ownership, it is fully operating as it should. I doubt if Eric's metal shavings are related to the metallic contamination that has been found in 4200+ tractors since his 4100 was manufactured in Japan where they probably were smart enough to thoroughly flush out the castings before assembling them. ALSO, I have never seen any postings on any of the three tractor forums about anyone with a 4100 having transmission failures due to metallic contamination. BTW--when my tractor was beginning to have transmission problems at about 40 hours, I was notified by my dealer that a DTAC bulletin was issued which recommended a transmission filter and fluid change to be performed at 50 hours instead of what was listed in the manual, and the transmission filter on the hydros was twice the size of the original--so JD was aware of the metallic contamination issue on the 4200+ tractors. Mike S.






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 01-27-2001, 14:46 Post: 23735
Mike S.



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PS--to my previous post: Eric--one of my Kubotas went ten years with a total repair bill of under ten dollars and each time I cleaned its hydro transmission suction screen, there were metal shavings present on the screen, and it never had any transmission problems. When I posted the same question as did you about the amount of metal found on the suction screen when I changed fluid at 50 hours on my 4400, there were several respondents that indicated that it was perfectly normal. Mike S.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

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cutter 1 | DFB 5 | dsg 1 | Eric D. 2 | Mike S. 3 | Roger L. 2 | Ted Kennedy 5 | TomG 2 |




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