new 448 backhoe sags: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review new 448 backhoe sags: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 08-05-2008, 23:45 Post: 155841
SamSpade



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 new 448 backhoe sags

I got my new tractor with a 448 backhoe. But I am surprised how fast the boom hydraulics sag and trying to figure out if it is a problem or normal for the seals to bypass this much.

If I put the boom and dipper out at a 45%, I think the bucket would be on the ground in less than an hour.

I think there is a prescribed time limit that JD says is OK, does anyone know it and the standard position to start from? I am probably not facing a problem, but I would like to confirm it.

SS






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 08-06-2008, 01:16 Post: 155842
auerbach



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 new 448 backhoe sags

Normal occurence -- when the unit is 25 years old. I'd expect new internal seals to hold for a half-day or so.






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 08-06-2008, 05:30 Post: 155844
harvey



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 new 448 backhoe sags

There are several threads about this and the general consensus is (weather right or wrong) they bleed down fairly quick.

My 48 does also from day 1. I think it is more of a function of the valves in the valve block.






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 08-06-2008, 12:12 Post: 155853
kthompson



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 new 448 backhoe sags

Based upon Harvey's comment doubt the JD boom has valves that are designed to hold the boom up with the machine off for safety. Look in your manual and see if they say anything about them "holding" if pressure is lost. Some do for safety. You can cut off the machine and break the pressure and the boom will hold. kt






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 08-06-2008, 14:46 Post: 155862
SamSpade



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 new 448 backhoe sags

I didn't see anything about a safety when there is no machine pressure on my first read through the manual. I'll go back and check to see if I missed it.

Earlier I was speaking about with the machine on, but I do know it will settle with the machine off also. I'll try it with the machine off and then on to see if there is a difference.

I tried searching past threads on hydraulic issues, but I didn't come up with anything related to settling like this. Does anybody know the site well enough to suggest a search criteria that might get me closer?

SS






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 08-06-2008, 17:31 Post: 155875
earthwrks

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 new 448 backhoe sags

I'm wondering why you'd leave the boom in any position but fully up or fully down. And that it stops in any position is not so much for "safety" but that's its inherent design (Kenny, that means that is how it's designed to be). After all, if you release a control lever while you're digging in any position, you want that particular piece to stop while you're doing another function.

Hydraulics are not to be equated with a transmission in that if you're not going forward or reverse then you're in neutral and can go either way under its own volition--not so. In fact just the opposite. Generally, hydraulics are in a sort of hydraulic limbo until controlled otherwise.

It's sort of like saying a runner standing motionless must be in a "safety position". No, because just a second before that he was running. It's part of the running process---he's gotta start and stop sometime.






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 08-06-2008, 19:28 Post: 155879
hardwood

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 new 448 backhoe sags

The stabilizer cylinders will sag on my #48, but can't tell you about the boom, I always either put the safety pin in for transport or rest the bucket on the ground when if park it. Some cylinders on any equipment seem to leak back a bit or else the control valves leak a bit, unless they get real bad it isn't much of a concern. Frank.






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 08-06-2008, 22:04 Post: 155889
SamSpade



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 new 448 backhoe sags

EW, that's the point. I didn't buy it that it is a safety "feature", I want it to stay stopped when I tell it to stop, but it doesn't. And it is not that it sags over a couple of days, but while I watch. I'd stick it out at a 45 not to do anything but to put it into a high stress position in order to make the issue easier to see (faster). And it was more of a hypothetical. From my normal use and seeing how it reacts I am predicting how it will react if in that hypothetical position. I am trying to decide if is normal for it to sag this fast or if it means the cyclinder is leaking unacceptably.

When I spoke to my dealer about, he said that there might be a spec for how long it takes for it to sag from a specified position that indicates a problem or normal. But he didn't know the specs off the top of his head.

I don't have a lot of experience with this, so I am casting about in the wilderness looking for a ray of hope.... Wink yeah right






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 08-07-2008, 00:03 Post: 155892
DRankin



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 new 448 backhoe sags

I love my Deere but they all "sag" like that.

I have a 46 hoe and it drifts down like yours, as do the stabilizers and the FEL and sometimes the 3 point hitch.

If you do get the specs from Deere don't be surprised if they say that falling in just minutes is within spec.

There are actually three problems going on here.

1) The whole hydraulic system is spec'd pretty loose.

2) Deere (and dealers) keep filling tractors with Low-Vis Hygard with has the viscosity of warm water in spite of the fact that the owners manual calls for regular Hygard at temps over 80 degrees.

3) It is summer. See above.

When I replaced the low-vis in my system the problem didn't go away but it slowed WAY down. On a cold winter day the hydraulics will stay in place all day (12-18 hours).

Summer temps around here are 100 or so and I still get some drift-down in this weather..... about like it used to do in the winter on low-vis.

You may have to change oil twice or three times to get mostly regular Hygard through-out the system considering how much is left behind in hydraulic cylinders, hoses, other implements and such.

But I believe based on my observations and experience that it is the only realistic help you are going to get.

Check the folwing links:

http://eservice.msds.com/servlet/SSMain

http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/oils_and_lubricants/oil_hydraulic.html







Link:   Viscosity chart 
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John Deere Review: new-448-backhoe-sags

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 08-07-2008, 06:41 Post: 155896
hardwood

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 new 448 backhoe sags


DRankin; Like you said changing from Lo-vis to Hi-vis can take several changes to get it completely changed. I do agree with you that the Lo-Vis has the consistency of rainwater, but the service manager tells me DON'T do it meaning leave the Lo-Vis in it year round. Kinda like the newer cars and pickups calling for the 0 - whatever viscosity engine oils year round, but nothing unusual to hear of cars running on the rainwater stuff to have a quarter million miles. One son in law has one with a tick over three hundred thousand and still going, kinda hard for me to believe too. Frank.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 155841 Filter by Poster:
auerbach 1 | DRankin 2 | earthwrks 5 | hardwood 3 | harvey 4 | kthompson 3 | SamSpade 5 |




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