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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-16          11120

I have a JD4100. It started great during the summer and early fall. Now that winter is approaching it barely starts at temps 30 deg. and below. It smokes excessively and only hits on one or two cylinders for the first minute. After a 1 min. warmup it works fine. I called the dealership (which I am not at all happy with) today to see if this was normal. Natuarlly it is normal according to the dealer. I have tried buying fuel from several different sources with no noticable difference. Does anyone else have a JD4100 with a smoking problem??

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Bill
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1999-12-16          11128

Larry, The only time which I experienced anything similar to this was when I had a few glow plugs out on my deisel truck. This caused the same type response, but I am not sure if JD uses this system, as I have a New Holland. Since it is extreamly difficult to start, if it uses glow plugs, the whole glow plug system may be on the blink. Should start relatively easily down to about 0 F. Can't immagine JD systems are that bad. Get it fixed at another dealer, cuz you will load the oil with raw fuel and soot very quickly running even only for a minute the way you describe. Doesn't sound right. Second opinions are cheap by phone. Bill ....

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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-12-16          11146

You've got some glow plugs not working. There are aftermarket suppliers for most glow plugs who make one just as good or better for a whole lot less money....don't know about the JD4000's, but it is worth a look. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-17          11154

Hope I'm not talking out of context here, or stating the obvious but Diesel's do smoke in the winter. Even my computer controlled 24v Cummins smokes, and the colder it gets the more it'll smoke. Keep in mind, that engine is completely computer controlled, right down to how much fuel is fed, based on things like temperature, load, air density, ect... Unlike our 4100's which are purely mechanical (to my knowledge). As far as running on one cylinder, you need to check a few things. First, how does your fuel filter look? If its black, most likely ya got the "Moisture Fungus". FYI: this is one reason I dislike Dyed Fuel. Don't think a fresh tank of fuel will cure this problem. Best thing to do is flush and drain everything. Secondly, setting the throttle a hair above idle, before shutting the unit down really helps at your next start-up. And lastly, as others mentioned, may want to check into the glow plugs or heater grid. I kinda thought Glow plugs were being replaced by heater grids??...
Never doubt the effects of a partialy blocked filter. Unlike gasoline filters, A big drop in temperature might be enought to thicken the fuel enought to present this problem... ....

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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-17          11155

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check the glow plugs. If they are bad JD can replace them, still under warranty. ....

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Scott
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1999-12-17          11163

Larry - Just as a point of reference, I also have a 4100, and with the cold weather, it will smoke a little more upon start-up, but quickly warms up and runs fine. MLS mentions shutting it down at just above idle to aid in later start-up, and that's what I do also and have had no problems. MLS, after starting, do you then back it down a bit to idle, or just let it warm-up at the current throttle setting? Thanks. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-17          11167

Scott,
I keep it at that setting. A few times, I set it back to idle after start-up and it seemed to idle really,really rough. Having it throttled up (ever so slightly) seems to make it start better, and run smoother until its warm. Secondly I have always "felt" that it adds a bit of additional oil pressure to the pump, to get things moving around quicker. To Each his own I guess.. ....

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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-17          11172

Thanks for the suggestions MLS. I had already checked them all. In fact the air filter replacement was when I had the misfortune of finding the most impolite parts person in JD history. I finally located the glow plugs but they are difficult to get at. To add to my misery I noticed that one of the plastic tabs that hold the front grill in place is broken. I'll let it cool down again and try cycling the glow plugs a few times before the next start to see if that helps. For the guy looking for a 318 mower deck, try clicking on the classifieds link at the top left of the home page. ....

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Jack in IL
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1999-12-17          11174

Just curious. Do you turn the key on part way to the Run position and then watch the oil pressure light? While the glow plugs are on the light will be dim and then it brightens after about 3 - 4 seconds when you can start cranking the engine. There is no glow plug light on a 4100. ....

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David
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1999-12-17          11190

Starting diesels in cold weather in general will always produce more smoke and vibration than starting in warm weather. 1/2 to 3/4 wide open throttle will also assist in starting mechanically injected diesels as the throttle position will inject additional fuel in the cylinder and make it easier to start. once the engine starts return the throttle to about 1/4 to warm up the engine. This is sort like the choke in a gas engine, excess fuel with cold temp makes for easier starting. Many older IH engines had a start postion on the throttle and would not start cold unless this postion was used. This start position threw lots of excess fuel to the cylinder for cold weather starting. Many IH engines smoke at idle even hot, but clean up once under load and run up to speed. You may have a bad glow plug in your JD. I always know when I have a bad glow plug in ny 6.9L Navistar in a Ford truck. It is a little harder to start and will blow white smoke for 15-30 seconds won't do it if all the glow plugs are working. All in all diesel smoke on a cold engine is fairly normal. ....

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Bill
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1999-12-17          11191

Fellas, any time you are warming a deisel, it is important to be above idle. Unlike big rigs which are set up to keep the idle up higher during periods of idle, our tractors or vehicles don't have this feature. Maybe MLS' newer Cummings with computer control does, don't really know. Anyway, a deisel at idle doesn't make enough heat for complete combustion, even when the engine is fully warmed. You'll load the oil with soot and fuel, not to mention wear the rings faster with the wash out. So always run it above idle, and only idle it when finished with the task to facilitate a more even engine cool down. Don't ask where I got this from, read it some place, but the old mind can't remeber where. That wasn't the important part I guess! Merry Christmas to all! Bill ....

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Scott
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1999-12-17          11199

Bill - Thanks, that seems like good info. I'm curious about glow plugs on the JD4100. The manual doesn't address turning the ignition "on" and then waiting for them to warm up before starting. Is this something that older tractors required that is no longer necessary, or is this a common, required practice for any diesel motor? I've always held the switch "on" for a few seconds before cranking it and maybe it's not necessary... ....

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Bill
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1999-12-18          11232

Scott, Don't have any experience with JD here,as I have a New Holland, but as far as I know there is only one way to activate glow plugs, and that is when the ignition is turned on. My tractor you turn the ignition to what would be the accesory position on an auto ignition. Of course, I have a light, so I know when to crank. My F250 is the same way. I know glow plugs are getting faster, but immediate, especially in cold weather, I can't see. One way to tell, is when it is cold, crank the engine immediately, see if it starts as quickly. I know Cummings heats the fuel rather than the chamber, but that still takes a little time. I would have to defer to MLS for actual fact on that. You are correct in the post above that these guys all smoke when cold, but to hit only on one or two cyl. isn't right. Never had that happen, even in -30F. Always ran smooth too. Hope this answers your question. Bill ....

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tom
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1999-12-19          11256

Thanks to David & Bill for their tips on cold weather starting and operation.

We're starting to have near 0F temperatures and significant snow falls. Figure
I'll be starting the tractor today or tomorrow after a month's rest. ....

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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-12-19          11264

In a nutshell: If the tractor doesn't want to start at 30 degrees, I'd suspect either the glow plugs or else the operator is not working the glowplug circuitry to best advantage. But zero F is a whole different dimension. I wouldn't even try to start my diesel at zero degrees F without leaving the block heater plugged in for an hour or two. In fact, I plug it in anytime the temp is below about 35 degrees. Then it fires right up. With a blanket over the hood and the block heater plugged in all morning I've been able to start mine when the temperature was -20 or more.
Roger L ....

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Bill
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1999-12-19          11269

Roger L, When I spoke of 0F and even -30F that was experience with my truck deisel. My tractor is as well treated as yours, maybe better. It is always in the garage. The truck, you won't always have the facility to plug the heaters in, but with the right oil, and fuel mix/conditioners, I have never had problems. I wouldn't expect a problem with the tractor either, as I am doing the same for it. Why do you say you wouldn't try to start it without plugging in, below 35F? Not trying to start another war here, just curious. Bill ....

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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-19          11270

I've been lying in bed with the flu for the last several days and have had plenty of time to think about the smoke problem. I'm not talking about some additional smoke. I am talking about it looks like the barn is burning down, the EPA may shut my operation down, and the neighbors may call 911 one of these days. I am convinced that Bill and Roger L. are correct about a bad glow plug but is will be a few days before I can check it to tell. Just after my initial post I did measure the voltage going to the glow plugs. With the key in the on position voltage is supplied to the glow plugs for aprox. 5 sec. When the relay kicks out (you can hear it) the voltage is removed from the glow plugs. As Jack in Il. stated, you can also watch the panel lights. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-12-19          11271

Hello Bill...Hello Larry. Larry, glad you are better. Bill, the misunderstanding is because I was stil addressing Larry's problem with starting his tractor at temps below 30 degrees. His is the message that started the thread. I don't doubt that yours are better treated than my tractors and turbo diesel F250....although it wouldn't take much, since mine live outside under tarps or in the open shed. The barn is for animals, and I am of the belief that putting a vehicle into my garage is a waste of premium workshop space. Things like welders, lathes, and mills get to live indoors. Not my tractors. But I don't mind if you keep yours indoors... :-)
I am recommending that Larry replace a glow plug and add a block heater if he doesn't already have one. BTW, Larry, the voltage test is good for testing the circuitry, but it doesn't test the glow plug. Even a bad glow plug will have the same voltage going to it as a good one. Most multimeters don't have a high enough amperage range to test the current draw....which is the only test that counts. Next best would be to check the resistance between the disconnected glow plug to the block. Or remove the plug, and look at it to see if it glows when it is powered by the switch. ....

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Larry
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1999-12-19          11274

Thanks Roger L. I plan on using my ohm meter to test the plugs after I pull the 12v line from them. The meter is sensitive enough that even if the bad one is shorted or has a badly distorted coil, I should be able to tell the difference by comparing to the other plugs. ....

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Scott S.
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1999-12-19          11302

Speaking of block heaters, my JD dealer tells me they don't make one for the 4100. Is this true? I'd really like to install one but the parts guy just scratches his head and says he doesn't think they make one for it... ....

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JonB
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1999-12-20          11307

Scott, after reading some of your comments I got out my 4100 manual. The manual does not mention allowing glow plugs to warm up, but it does state you are to turn the key "to the ON position, do not start engine." It then tells you to review the instrument panel, and then start the engine. I've assumed reviewing the instrument panel is to give the glow plugs at least 5 seconds to warm up. Of course JD wants you to make sure everything is operating right before you actually start up. My manual also gives two cold weather staring recommendations, including installation of an "optional engine block heater" and an "optional hydraulic oil heater" if you operate in temperatures below -18 degree C or 0 degrees F. Best of luck and Merry Christmas. ....

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Scott S
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1999-12-20          11310

JonB- I suppose the "review the instrument panel" is JD's way of allowing for warm-up, but why can't they just say so!? And maybe I should have my local JD parts guy check out the manual too, 'cause so far he hasn't been able to find the block heater that says it works on the 4100. I guess if this winter continues the way it's been going, it don't make no nevermind anyhow... ....

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Jack in IL
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1999-12-20          11315

There is a coolant heater as well as a transmission oil heater available. Each takes 2 parts numbers to order. See the JD Sales Manual. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-20          11319

Larry,
Owning a 4100 with a JD installed block heater I can tell you they make em. Didn't know about the tranny heater...Think I'll wait to see how things are this winter before worrying about that expense. My new garage will be heated to maintain 35-40 degrees.(Keep chemicals from freezing) So I'm not real worried. My dealer was thorough enough to run me through the little things like starting the tractor. The proper procedure is to turn the key, wait until that glow plug relay clicks, or visually watching the..(dash (Alt?) light increase intensity ..them proceed to start the unit. I start mine at a smidge less than 1/4 throttle and keep it there for warm up. I doubt its written anywhere but seems to work great. As far as a faster idle on the Computer controlled Cummins..Yes, the computer does this automatically...I can't lie, thats where I got the idea for the 4100. ....

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Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1999-12-20          11326

Today was the day! I pulled the wires from the glow plugs and checked them with the ohm meter (actually a DVOM). They really are not that hard to get at once you remove the side panel and the air filter assembly. All of the plugs checked out O.K. The nut holding the wire to the center plug was not very tight. I reinstalled everything. I let the tractor cool for 5 hours in 25 deg. F and it started with little effort and came up to speed within 5 seconds. It also quit the major league smoke within 5 seconds. I suspect the center glow plug wire was not making good connection. Now if I can just get some snow to play with. ....

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Steve
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1999-12-22          11399

When you turn on the key wait a few seconds before engaging the starter. You will notice a "click" sound and the lights will brighten in the instrument panel. This indicates that the glow plugs have done their job. I have a little white smoke for the first 10 seconds after starting. I also don't believe that this is mentioned in the owners manual. ....

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