Go Bottomtop and tilt have to unhook to use loader
 | dallas
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4 Seattle 
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2005-03-18 108259
I have a JD 4410 and took it to the dealer to have a top and tilt put on. When I went to pick it up, I was told that the top and tilt would not work while the loader was hooked up, that I couldn't use both at the same time unless I have a diverter. I paid $1100 for the top and tilt and was wondering if this was actually done right. I have a backhoe so I also have the power beyond.
Thanks, Jim
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 | oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa 
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2005-03-18 108262
Sounds like they just plugged in to your loader ports. For $1100 you should have gotten a rear valve. ....
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| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
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2005-03-18 108264
You mean you have to remove the loader just to use the top and tilt??
Doesn't sound like its done right to me !!!!
That setup is a joke. ....
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| denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-03-18 108267
What you say sounds correct to me. I have been reinventing my 4300 hydraulics for a few weeks now. The dealer says the first 2 valves are for the loader, the 3rd is a single added to the loader valve, the spool is already there, you just add the controls and remotes at the back. If you want JD brand number 4 and 5, they have a diverter for the 2 loader valves and you can't use them at the same time? As soon as I heard this, I abandoned any idea of using the factory hookup. I was under the impression that nothing was disconnected, just an electronic diverter or something so you could switch back and forth, just not use them at the same moment. They told me it was $1100 just for valve 4 and 5. That didn't include the top and tilt, so you may have had them just remove the loader hoses and attach the top and tilt, which is certainly unacceptable. What I plan to do for top and tilt is add a 3 spool valve on the rops and use 2 of them for top and tilt and have a 3rd for spare. They will be powered by the power beyond. the JD 3rd is almost plumbed to the loader for front hydralulics. ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-18 108270
Oh and Deere is just sooo great. Good grief ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2005-03-18 108275
To do it right you need to get two additional SCVs and the electric diverter valve. A switch controls the divereter which switches the loader joystick between loader and TnT functions. I have this setup on my 4310 (same basic machine, different engine) and use TnT and the loader together all the time. But it costs more to do it right. ....
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 | MIFarmin
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 34 Michigan
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2005-03-18 108276
I have a JD 4310. I installed 2 kits for rear hydraulics. One was a power beyond for a backhoe and the other was a single valve for operating a single rear cylider. The single valve comes with an extra lever mounted next to the 3 point hitch lever. Each kit cost around $200. I haven't used the single valve yet but I assumed it was for an application such as yours. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-03-18 108280
I've got about every hydraulic option there is on the 4310 - five SCVs, diverter valve, and Power Beyond. SCVs 1-3 are used for the loader and grapple jaw. SCVs 4-5 are TnT, and PB is, well, PB. The loader joystick controls both SCVs 1-2 (diverter in loader position) and SCVs 4-5 (diverter in TnT position). MIFarmin is right that the third SCV is controlled with a lever on the right console, and for my use that is what controls the grapple jaw. ....
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| jamese
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 65 NC
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2005-03-18 108288
your dealer wasnt HONEST,,if all else fails get a "one touch kit" I saw it at Corriher Tractor ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-03-18 108292
The price you paid sounds about right for just the TnT kit, but the extra valves and diverter will cost significantly more. Without knowing more about what all was negotiated and why it could just be a miscommunication or a clueless salesman. ....
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| dallas
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4 Seattle
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2005-03-19 108297
Oneace you are right on. I have to unhook the loader make sure there is no pressure in the loader cylinders, take off the loader hoses, and attach the loader hoses to hoses that they have run to four quick release ports at the back of the tractor, then they have run quick release hoses to the two haydtaulic cylinders, one for the top and the other for the tilt. The top and tilt is controled by the same controls that was used for the loader, to use the loader I have to take off hoses that go to top and tilt and hook up hoses to the loader. I guess what they actually did was run like and extension hydraulic hose to the top and tilt.
Does anyone know what it should actually cost to have this done right with an electric diverter so I can use the loader and the top and tilt without unhooking four hydraulic lines everytime. Thanks Jim ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-19 108301
Man Deere really puts it to you. With NH and kubota the extra valve to the rear cost about $300 and the top and tilt maybe $500. I always thought you were paying more just for green paint but it looks like you pay more just to make you pay more later. ....
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| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2005-03-19 108306
A few years ago when I was pricing Kubota's the first hydraulic remote rear valve was around 6 or $700 and around $300 for the second set of rear valves. So they were on the pricey side also. (At least they were when I checked into them).
I think I read somewhere that the rear remotes on NH were costing around 2 to $300 per set (much cheaper).
The factory valve sets for my DK 35 Kioti were $200 per set. Price included control valves, steel lines and quick couplers.Dealer installed they cost around $250 per set.
....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-03-19 108311
On my 4310 the dealer charged $925 for the TnT kit and $1125 for two additional SCVs and the electric diverter valve. Prices include installation labor. ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-19 108335
With Nh you have the standard 2 spool valve for the loader and up to 3 rear remotes out the back that have nothing to do with the loads valve. I think I am going to have to find a job with Deere so I can figure out there logic. Made in the USA but Greek to me. ....
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| skyraiderad5
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 14 West Jordan UT
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2005-03-20 108404
top and tilt cost me just over 600.00 and does not effect the loader on my blue tractor ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-03-20 108422
skyraider, was that a BLUE top-n-tilt kit? When I looked at a TC33 NH didn't offer a factory kit and the dealer offered to fabricate one for me for around that price. I know you could install an aftermarket TnT kit on a green machine for a lot less than factory prices. ....
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| skyraiderad5
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 14 West Jordan UT
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2005-03-21 108447
I installed both top and tilt cylinders from Intergrated Engineering about 170 each and the 2nd and 3rd remotes from the dealer at about 180.00 each. I use the 1st remote for a hydraulic auger that quick attaches to the loader bucket, 2nd remote for front to back tilt, and the 3rd remote for side to side tilt. ....
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| denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-03-26 108810
kwschumm, how did JD cross the problem of having quick disconnects mounted at the front of the loader and how about when you want the loader off? Do you have to undo the hoses or are there disconnects for remote hyd next to the loader disconnects. I am setting all this up on my 4300 right now. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-03-26 108815
Denwood, there are hydraulic disconnects everywhere. The third SCV lines for the grapple are mounted on the inside of the right loader arm with disconnects that connect to the grapple. Swapping between bucket and grapple is no problem. I've never had the loader off, but there is a big row of disconnects right below the right loader mount that the loader hoses connect to. ....
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