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John Deere 4300 scuffing more and more

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TRock
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1999-11-17          10197

Hi folks!I have been reading the posts concerning the scuffing. I finally was followed up today on my phone call to JD for this concern. Lori at the JD customer service center said that according to her conversation with JD engineering yesterday (11/16/99), there was no retrofit axle at this time. I asked her why there were posts on the internet saying the opposite. She stated that JD is currently looking into the issue, but that no repair parts were available. She asked me how bad my tractor was scuffing, and what tires I had. She did say that people with bar-type tires were probably not going to notice the scuffing because most don't go on lawns with these tires, and only use them in the soft dirt in the fields. She did say that the engineer recommended that she remind me when mowing, I shouldn't be attempting to turn all the way to lock, (to use long sweeping circles). Sorry, I did not spend this kind of $$ for a mowing tractor if it can only be turned 1/2 way to lock on grass. She did say that she really hadn't heard of all that many people with scuffing so bad that it leaves black marks on the driveway, and that mine may be an exception and is way worse than all the others. I told her that in today's mass production, hundreds of these tractors are produced in a day, and for mine to be assembled different than the other ones made that day, would be REALLY slim. They are probably ALL the same way. Maybe it is true, they haven't heard from the owners. I can tell that there are at LEAST 10 people on this website that have identical problems. I know that my dealer has done the best they can (they are top-notch, can't say enough about them!!!!) My suggestion is simple. The owners of the 4000 series that haven't asked their dealers about the scuffing problem yet.....what are you waiting for????? HOW in the world do you think JD is going to recognize that there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of problem tractors out there? If it isn't brought to their attention, JD may think it is not a widespread issue. For the owners that HAVE talked to their dealers about this and a "no fix is currently available" response was given, (I was given this response, but haven't talked to my dealer since October and I'm sure he has gotten more info since then) I suggest calling JD's customer service line, as they need to know that this problem IS a widespread problem!!Be sure to have your serial # and date of purchase when you call. 1-800-537-8233There are a few prompts to go through when you call, but they do answer very quickly, with very little hold time!!! Very good to know!!Then, I invite all the callers to respond back to this posting to give us the updates so we can all be informed. Enough said....

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Terry
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1999-11-18          10205

I to called the 1-800 number and got pretty much the same line, and I needed to talk to my dealer, after several calls he said let me call DTHL [dealer tech hot line], he called right back and told me yes there was a fix, all trasctors bulit in December would have the new axle and the axle for tractors before that date would be sometime in January. My call to him was on 11-16 99 the same day you called. I also have seen a JD dealer post a message on the board saying the same thing my dealer had said, I belive he was from PA, I would like to thank him for his input on his posting, not many JD dealers to do this. I would suggest to call your dealer and ask him to call the DTHL, let me know what he says. ....

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Mike
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1999-11-18          10208

I'm glad to read this. My tractor is at the dealership right now.I'm
calling JD as soon as I can find my serial #. Thanks. ....

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Ted
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1999-11-18          10210

2 things are occuring folks, the principal thing that is happening is simple physics, blame Sir Isaac Newton, not John Deere (or anybody else except the operator!). It is a simple result of the traction of the rear wheels trying to drive the tractor straight forwards, exceeding the traction of the front wheels to turn a corner as sharp as the operator is trying to accomplish. In other words "a body in motion tends to stay in motion....." So, as I have so eloquently put it many times in the past..... it is the "loose nut" behind the wheel that is the cause of the problem. Either slow down, turn more gradually or stop complaining....PLEASE. It is NOT A DESIGN FAULT. I can make my pickup truck do the same thing, I don't hear people asking Ford to change their design. ....

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Terry
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1999-11-18          10211

Ted being a Auto Tech for some 25 years, I understand how the front end of a wheeled machine works, and its not the driver, my tractor is about 3000 lbs, in a fifteen foot circle it will tear the grass out by the roots, thats not even a 45degree turn. My truck is 4500 lbs, locking differential, deully, in the same circle does nothing. If you own 4000 series tractor and have no problem I am very happy for you, but I too would like to have one. Just by all the comments on this board seems I am not the only person with this problem. Besides when I bought my tractor the dealer knew what I was going to use it for, its a good thing I do not cut lawns for aliving, I would be out of a job. ....

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RBinNC
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1999-11-18          10212

OK, I'm curious. I have a JD4300 4wd sync/reverser R1's, and I can't tear up any grass unless I turn it to the stops. I'm not mowing in 4wd, so what's the difference here? Is my grass tougher? Are you in 4wd? Not being cute, I just would like to figure out the difference. ....

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Larry
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1999-11-18          10216

Ted,
I strongly disagree with your post. The maniac, 4wd, tight turn, high speed mowing issue has been beat to death on this board. I have a 4100 and can't even back out of the barn at idle in 2wd without removing grass, roots and all. All JD's come at a premium price and I expect premium performance! ....

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turfman
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1999-11-18          10219

Wow, Ted sure knows a lot about physics and tractors and trucks and how other people drive and etc..... Maybe we (the 4000 owners) should check and see how many of us have used other tractors before and are now using this model to try the same things. As for me, I owned a ford 8N, JD 755, JD 855, JD955, and now a 4400. Hmmmmm,none of the JD's prior to this when used in the same manner have had anything close to this type of problem. I have run each of the prior tractors about 500 hrs/year and never have to worry about the tear unless in 4wd. I really don't care what he thinks about our problem, if you are tired of hearing about it then don't access the subject heading and then you don't have to read about it. as for the rest of us we have a gripe and JD should here it. that is my 2 cents. ....

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TRock
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1999-11-18          10223

Ted,
I have to agree with Larry and Terry. What tractor do you drive? I know I didn't buy my tractor to drive across my lawn like it was a 4-wheeler on a race track. Speed isn't the issue, and weight is not the issue. As I have read in previous postings, there are heavier JD tractors, like the 1070 that one guy had that said he was able to turn it completely lock to lock without any scuffing at all. If it is marketed to the public as a commercial tractor used for lawn mowing purposes, it should not cause scrub arcs anywhere on that lawn where the tractor was turned around. If I were paying the bill to that mowing company, I would surely want my grass replanted or to get reimbursed for the damages, then hire someone without a 4000 series tractor/mower. Mine will start scuffing in "A" range, with the throttle at idle, about halfway turned to lock in either direction. You need to take your foot off your differential lock if it wants to keep going straight ahead. This was as eloquent as I could get. ....

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Terry Weivoda
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1999-11-18          10226

Sorry Ted, I just can't agree with your conclusion that the front tire scuffing is all operator error. Many of us that have posted on this board regarding the scuffing problem were previous owners of the 55 series Deere tractors. When the new 4000 series tractors were announced we expected improvements in design and quality. The 55 series tractors were well designed and ahead of their time but these tractors were engineered in the mid 1980s. We were ready for a new tractor. The 55 series tractors did not turn as short but they did not scuff the turf. As I have said in previous posts you can actually turn and 855 or 955 shorter on turf than you can with the 4000 tractors. You can make the 4000 tractors turn but it will look like you disced the turf if you do. The good news is that it appears Deere is agreeing with us and accepts that a real problem existed. I think Deere's reputation is on the line for compact utility tractor purchasers on this one. A poor front axle design should never have been put into production. Now that it has, Deere must make it right with their loyal customers and repair or replace the axle under their excellent warranty program. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-11-18          10230

I must disagree with Ted blaming the nut behind the wheel as being the cause of the lawn scuffing with the JD 4x00 series of compact diesel tractors. Neither of my Kubota tractors nor my JD955 would scuff the lawn. However, my 4400HST will tear grass out of the yard without the tractor being in 4WD or making a tight turn under full power. JD should not have used the early purchasers of this new series of tractors as field testers--JD should have fully tested these tractors before releasing them for sale. Using Ted's rationale, I suppose it was also the nut behind the wheel that caused my 4400HST's PTO to go out at 8 hours or the tractor to loose power in road gear while driving down the road (due to one of the brakes being tightened too much at the factory); or that the nut behind the wheel causes my tractor to jerk like someone was doing sloppy clutching as it is slowly backed up or down a slight berm in 2nd range axle; or stop so suddenly after being in reverse that it tears out grass; or when it suddenly decides (about once per week) to freewheel for ten feet instead of stopping after I take my foot off the forward pedal. Since Deere and Company used the early purchasers of these tractors as their field testers, these same early purchasers should receive at least a one year free extension on their warranties as well as own up to the problems and repair them ASAP. I have no issue with my dealer, but do have some issues with the John Deere Company and strongly disagree with Ted's scientific analysis that dismisses the problems as operator error.
Mike S. ....

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Doug in PA
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1999-11-19          10243

Ted,
I have a Kubota L-3010 and according to your "Newtonian" analogy I should be complaining about tearing up the grass as well....but I don't and the only ones who do are using the new Deeres, not NH's, MF's or Kubotas's. There appears to be a common denominator here and it is not the operator.

In addition it sounds like JD has essentially admitted to the problem if they are changing the design and retrofitting the currrent ones. ....

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PaulB
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1999-11-19          10245

I'm with Doug - my Kubota doesn't ever rip into the ground. It sounds to me like you guys who shelled out $15,000-$25,000 need to get real p-ssed off at JD, threaten to tell everyone and anyone you know about your bad experience with their product, and demand a fix or a refund to go buy a different machine. You are the consumer, and the reason any company exists is to keep its customers satisfied. I feel bad for you, it sounds like maybe the 4000 series got released before all the R&D was completed. ....

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Scott
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1999-11-19          10257

I have a 4100 which I got in late Sept, so I haven't mowed with it much, but I'll definately be watching for scuffing problems. I hadn't noted any yet, except once when I was in 4WD. I'm wondering what factors might be variable in its construction that would cause the problem in some, but not others. I have the "industrial" type tread on it, so I do baby it a bit on lawns, but I've only scuffed it when in 4WD. Has anyone noted whether their machine consistently scuffs, did it develop over time, or is it intermittent. This is my first JD and I'm looking forward to seeing how the manufacturer deals with this problem. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-11-20          10267

I've wondered about the turf-scrubbing too. There is a common factor that could cause scrubbing to happen with one machine and not with another because of the way that they were assembled or set up by the dealer....and another one not so common because of steering geometry set up by the factory.
The first and most common factor is simple "toe-in", and I doubt that the fix is so easy... The second is less commonly encountered and is called by any number of names depending on whether one designs front ends or sets them up. Most front end alignment guys will call it by the name: "toe-out". Some confusion is possible here because "toe-out" is NOT the opposite of "toe-in" - in fact it is not even related geometrically to toe-in. Toe-in refers to front tires set up so that they are not parallel. The leading edges are slightly closer than the trailing edges. Usually by about 1/8 inch although this is not critical at low speeds. You can set it for yourself with a tape measure - and in fact if it is wrong then the tires might scrub the turf....but not much.
The less common factor - which I am calling "toe-out" - refers to something that MUST be accounted for by the factory's design engineer. This is that when turning the front wheels to go around a corner, the steering geometry should be designed so that the front wheels are angled by different amounts. Typically the inside tire will turn farther than the outside tire because the outside tire is not going around as tight of a radius. If this design parameter is missed or messed up, then one of the front tires must be dragged somewhat sideways by the other tire. If the scrubbing is sideways, by which I mean the scrubbing is perpendicular to the direction the tractor is going - then this is most likely the cause. The difference in turning angle is what I am calling "toe-out". The actual number is small - but measureable - by a front end shop and is on the order of a degree or two of difference for every twenty degrees of front wheel angle. Again, this is not something that the owner or dealer can adjust, although any factory can easily and cheaply make the parts to correct it.
If someone with a JD 4000 series that is scrubbing will get back to me with information as to the "direction of scrub" then we can get started on designing a fix for this. It would help to have one of the scrubbing JDs to modify.
Roger Loving ....

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art
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1999-11-20          10269

a few models of big deere's ago they tried to sell the idea of caster to the farming community. In there infinite wisdom and lack of frame clearence they added a lot of caster to the front wheels of there tractors so when they turned to the steering stops the tires actually laid on there sides. This was done so the tires would not hit the frame rails on there tractors and still allow them to turn 50 degrees to keep with the competition. Many farmers disliked this as it rutted meadows and stones often cut the sidewalls of the tires. Question is are they back at it again? ....

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Terry
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1999-11-20          10272

Art I believe you hit the nail on the head, I have check the toe in and made sure it was correct,the tires were toe in about 3/4 of an inch, I corrected it to 1/8 of an inch and it did help some, my conclusion is the tire are cambered to much, so when turning that only make the tire camber that much more and the tire rides on the outer edge, tearing up the lawn. I am curious to see what improvement has been made to the new axle. ....

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Tim
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1999-11-20          10274

Thought I would add something to the mix....Had a flat tire today, and when I raised the front end off the ground, I noticed the inner tie rod end on the left side was loose enough to get around 1/8 - 3/16" movement with absolutely no resistance (a couple of fingers on the forward and rearward side of the tire was all it took). I checked the right side, and about the same. Hmmm... a 1/4" to 3/8" total toe movement.....no wonder this thing wanders at road speed and has so much steering wheel play!!! I hope this is one of the parts that JD replaces!! I think JD should at least send out some kind of statement to all of the 4000 series owners and inform them that they are currently working on a resolution for this concern, even if the customer has not noticed any scuffing, and that they will contact the customers when a repair has been found. The longer they let this go on without acknowledging that it is a problem, the harder it may be to keep loyal customers. A satisfied customer tells only a couple of people that they are satisfied. A dissatisfied customer tells everyone. It would be cheaper to fix all of them under a recall-type program for good PR than it will be to try to get customers back once they jump ship to another color! Jeep did this when they knew there was a problem with fuel sending units in their Grand Cherokees. All of the affected vehicles got a letter sent to the owners acknowledging that there was a potential problem, and for the meanwhile, not to go over 250 miles on a tank full or risk running out of fuel. When they finally came up with a fix, they sent letters back to these same people and covered the repairs under warranty as a recall. Jeep people are very loyal. I think the farmers/landscapers/general public that own these compacts are also pretty loyal. It would be a wise move to expedite this concern or people WILL start to talk at the bar...at the store.....feed mill....restaurant...gas station..etc. The real truth is that JD still has a year's worth of warranty left on most tractors that would be involved in this. Step up to the plate and don't pull a "silent warranty" stunt and only grease the "squeaky wheels". It may cost a lot, but they would reap the benefits for years to come!! OK, I'm done now......off the soapbox..... ....

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Bruce
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1999-11-21          10277

You may be familiar with the term "ackermann steering" which refers to what you are calling toe out. This steering gear geometry was originally worked out by by Rudolf Ackermann who was a coach builder in the early 1800's. His design angles the arms that turn the stub axles inwards towards the rear. It results in the inside wheel angling further that the outside during a turn, thereby reducing tire scrub. It looks to me like the arms that turn the stub axles should be turned in enough to align with the center of the rear axle. BL
....

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Terry
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1999-11-21          10279

I wonder if all who have posting on this board have four wheel drive axles or are there some two wheel drive as well. Maybe the common factor is four wheel drive axle design. ....

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Bill
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1999-11-21          10286

I could not agree with Roger Loving more. The geometry problem you are all seemingly experiencing, can be seen best on a car or truck which is in alignment to go down the road straight, but "crabs" (front wheels not followed exactly by the rear) This happens when the rear of a vehicle is damaged. Usually, if there is not a rear setting, the fronts are just set to get the car to go down the road straight. But this causes other problems. People begin to see scuffing on the outside of the tire. This is caused by the wheels already being started into a turn, compensating for the rear out of alignment condition. The tires turn more than they should, causing scrubbing to occure, and because pavement is harder than tires, unlike turf. the tire suffers. I will bet money that this car or truck would sling some turf. I would immagine that there was not compensation in the engineering design to alow for the smaller and larger turning radius of the fron tires in a turn. I am curiose though, does this effect occure in both direction turns? If it doesn't there may be an alignment problem between the front and rear axles. If it does, I feel for all you guys, cuz you are going to have to wait for a "factory Fix", as they didn't compensate for the radius turns. Probably a "dumb" bean counter decision to save money. "Nobody will notice." Good luck, and hope my $0.02 was of help. ....

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Jay
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1999-11-21          10291

WOW, I havent been here in a week and this is a BIG SUBJECT,
I am a Deere dealer, I am just now dealing with my first 4000 series tire scuff complaints.

I agree, what do I tell people? For the record I have spoken to Deere, yes they are working on it, but when will the fix be ready? Don't know, personally that is the favorite answer I like to give my customers...NOT!!!!

There is a problem, can't wait to see how they are gonna remedy this, (I know they will) but man this isn't like an adjustment , this will be a pull and replace I bet... can't relay in words how much I am sorry to here about all the problems, the only consolation I have from this is that ALL the other dealers are gonna have to deal with it also....

Humbly,

Jay
....

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Tom
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1999-11-22          10293

Enough! I recently purchased a JD4100 in Central Illinois. I looked at many JD4000 series machines in inventory at Dealers in Iowa and Illinois. Most were obviously out of alignment, yes I am an engineer so I measured some -toe in's exceeding +/- 2 inches. The machine I bought in particular was severly out of alignment. The dealer agreed to repair/replace prior to delivery. They replaced the entire front axle. Guess what -no turf scuffing. Yes, it has been dry in Central Illinois this fall, but I have been watering a couple of acres like mad trying to recover from the summer heat wave. Wet ground -no scuff. I must have the 'fixed' axle or good alignment equals no scuff. The absolutely miserable quality coming out of Yanmar in Japan or Georgia w.r.t. alignment needs to be addressed by JD. Great little tractor. ....

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Ted
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1999-11-22          10297

EASY, EASY, fellas, put down those guns..... I did not intend to insult anyone, obviously I did, my sincere apologies!! I am a "professional", that is my machines are operated for the purpose of earning me my living. I presently have 8 tractors, 2 full-size, 6 compacts (L3450's, and L3650's) they are all GST's on full turfs, most with loaders. Even without a loader, any one of them will decimate turf, if the operator is not careful. I have NEVER seen or owned a tractor (I have owned over 30 machines in total, and each one does about 1500hrs / year) that would NOT do this, 2wd or 4wd. since the link between the 2 front tires is rigid, it is EXTREMELY difficult to make them turn at the different rates required. Maybe JD has a problem, but I can't believe they would design a machine radically different from the rest of the world. ....

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Ted
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1999-11-22          10298

EASY, EASY, fellas, put down those guns..... I did not intend to insult anyone, obviously I did, my sincere apologies!! I am a "professional", that is my machines are operated for the purpose of earning me my living. I presently have 8 tractors, 2 full-size, 6 compacts (L3450's, and L3650's) they are all GST's on full turfs, most with loaders. Even without a loader, any one of them will decimate turf, if the operator is not careful. I have NEVER seen or owned a tractor (I have owned over 30 machines in total, and each one does about 1500hrs / year) that would NOT do this, 2wd or 4wd. since the link between the 2 front tires is rigid, it is EXTREMELY difficult to make them turn at the different rates required. Maybe JD has a problem, but I can't believe they would design a machine radically different from the rest of the world. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-11-22          10304

Nothing left unsaid, so I'll just add my vote in fixing the 4000's.
If this is fixed, it'll be even tougher to get me off the unit.
....

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Roger L.
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1999-11-22          10306

Ted, the rigid rod between the two steering arms doesn't make it difficult to make the two wheels angle at different rates at all. I'll admit that it is tricky to "see" at first. A paper sketch or a cardboard mockup will help. The clue is that the rigid rod is connecting two steering arms that are turning in a portion of a circle. Another hint is that the two steering arms need not be parallel to each other, nor are they perpendicular to the the direction that the rigid arm is pushing. This makes it possible for the arms to move at differing rates.
Consider a crankshaft and connecting rod. The crank may be spinning at a constant rate, but the velocity of the connecting rod obviously goes from zero to max twice a revolution. This means that the connecting rod travels a different distance for any portion of the crankshaft's angular rotation that you want to consider. The steering arms are like a couple of connecting rods. If they are not parallel with each other, they will automatically turn at differing rates. So the same idea works for steering. If you don't get this right away, let it stew for a few days. It took me a while to see the geometry too. This is not new info, or original with me.....it is pretty well known to steering design engineers. I picked it up by reading a book on steering schemes.
I don't know that this is what is causing the scuffing; in fact I doubt that it is something so simple. But this is only steering we are talking about here; as the saying goes: "This is definitely not rocket science". I'm just trying to work toward a fix and not depend entirely on the people who made the mistake to come up with a solution. What happens if they don't? .......Roger L. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-11-22          10307

Roger--to answer your question at the end of your nicely-written ideas on steering geometry regarding what happens if they (read: John Deere) don't fix the lawn scuffing and it is a very easy answer for me--I'LL GO BACK TO ORANGE.
Mike S. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-11-22          10309

Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I understand why you might go back to Orange, although with shorter and shorter model runs you might get there just in time for the same sort of problem! Also, I think that it is not the design problem so much as the refusal to admit to the problem and get to working on it that annoys most folks.
As for me, I might just jump the other way... I've been driving Red for years, but if a clean JD 1050 or even better a 1070 comes along it might tempt me too much to ignore.
Roger L. ....

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Ted
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1999-11-23          10316

Roger, I think you mis-read my message. I clearly said EXTREMELY difficult, I did not say impossible. Thanks for the lesson in geometry, and geometric physics, however, I covered all that in my second year of university. Now that I wear a steel pinky ring........... ....

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Jack D
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1999-11-23          10320

I have scuffing with R4 tires, and thought it was due to them. Does the type (R4 or turf) make a difference? As a matter of interest, I don't get the scuffing when backing. ....

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Terry
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1999-11-23          10322

My dealer and a lady from JD came and looked at my lawn today, I beleive she has an ideal how bad the scruffing problem. She told me that she would see what she could about helping me with my problem. My dealer also keeps telling that they are only fixing some of the tractors not all, he said thats what he was told from DTAC, seems they are allowing for a certain amount of scruffing. I am sure they will fix mine , my lawn is tore all to h--- and back. ....

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Tim
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1999-11-23          10329

Terry,
I am glad to see that JD is starting to approach the customers to see exactly how bad the scuffing really is. If I ever get a day off, I plan on seeing my dealer to get the ball rolling on mine. I am glad that this board is here so we can get our results together and help resolve this matter. Also, I appreciate the sponsors of this website. I wish we had a Kubota dealership as responsive as Carver Equipment in my neck of the woods. I did visit my closest Kubota dealership in '97, they were not very helpful. Ended up traveling 70 minutes away to buy my Boomer. That dealership was good, but the Boomer wasn't. Now I have a great dealership with great service, but the scuffing concerns are beyond dealership repair levels at this point. Now I have to wait for the factory to come through.
Oh, and by the way, the new JD commercial equipment brochure (1/4" thick) is listing the front end as able to turn 62 degrees, not 55 degrees. Wish they could prove it successfully in my standards. ....

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Tim
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1999-11-24          10357

Today was the day that I finally got a chance to talk to my dealership's service manager. He said that he hasn't heard at all what JD is going to do with the scuffing. It sounded like I was the only one that had the problem. He did agree that mine did scuff the gravel pretty bad when it was in for repairs last month, but that it was pretty early at that point and nothing much was on the boards at that point either. He told me to keep checking back to see what happens. I told him that I may pursue a D.T.A.C., as was mentioned in this board. It isn't the most important concern right now, as I don't have a reason to be on the grass, but come March/April, I don't want to be playing a waiting game yet. This is the wierdest thing. One dealer knows everything down to the dates of manufacture for the axle and when they are being released, and one dealer hasn't heard anything at all. I think I will be calling JD again. Real soon!! ....

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Terry
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1999-11-24          10358

Tim my dealer called me today and told me that my tractor would be getting the new axle. He said that the axle would be aviable late Janurary, early February 2000, and would fix it as soon as he could. He also knows how picky of a person I am, and I also called him about twenty times about this problem, ask him to call John Deere and find out something, ask him to look at my lawn, and he did with a dealer rep. I would suggest that you call your dealer back and bitch some and demand an answer. Personally I would like to get my tractor fixed soon as possible, I`ll rest easier when its done. ....

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Randy
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1999-11-25          10363

I feel bad for everyone. I've owned a 770 fwd with several accessories for over 5 years with zero problems. I mow lawns with no scuffing even when the wheel is cramped around hard. No grinding gear problems no nothing. I am John Deere through and true. I will find it hard to believe if JD doesn't fix every problem. I would think they would consider it morally and legally the wise thing to do especially considering the price we pay for these tractors. Although I don't own a 4000 series myself I would be right beside you if I had these same proplems. Keep pounding away at them. JD owes it to each one of you. After all we keep them in business. I've been an engineer for over 18 years and there is one thing I know, there is always a way to correct an engineering problem. In your case if it means a new front axle design and installation so be it. They can engineer a new design very easily. It may not be cheap for them, but it is their problem...maybe they should of done a little more design testing on this one. Please don't settle for your tractor as is. It may make it diffcult for new owners in the future if JD gets away with it. Unfortunately your the ones that have to fight the battle this time. Hang in there.

Randy ....

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Brent
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1999-11-25          10375

Terry posed the question on whether anyone with 2wd tractors was
having the scuffing problem, or was it only the 4wd axle. Can any
2wd users answer this?

Also, Is the reason the older Deeres don't scuff because they don't
turn as sharp?

Brent ....

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Jim
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1999-11-27          10406

After being in the equip. business for about 15 years, and having sold 100's of used 55 series JD compacts, I just attribute it to JD trying to get a tighter turning radius. I have not had one yet w/evenly worn front tires. Jim ....

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Tim
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1999-11-27          10412

Hi again! I was in a neighboring town yesterday, stopped at the JD dealership that supposedly specializes in the compacts and garden tractors. Asked him if he has heard anything lately about what JD is doing to fix the scuffing. He was not aware of any fix, no updates at all. I find this hard to believe that 2 dealers around me know nothing about any fixes for the scuffing! My dealer believed that mine was the only one with the problem, even though they have sold them to the golf courses recently! I have a feeling that this may be like pulling teeth to get something done!! The other dealer was going to call the main store (they have 3 dealerships) to see if they have heard anything and give me a call on Monday. Wondering what the answer is going to be........ ....

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doug
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1999-11-30          10488

You are beyond left field. You buy a Tractor to mow grass and it cuts the turf at every turn, what good is the Tractor? I think you posted just to see what people will say, or you own a lot of jd stock and don't want to see the beating it will take if they don't come up with a fix fast. By the way I hear that the fix will be out in Febuary.es ....

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Chris
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1999-11-30          10496

I ordered a JD 4400 with a 430 loader today. Before ordering ....

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Larry
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1999-11-30          10499

Doug,
I think you may have missed the point of this discussion. All of us know that we bought tractors to mow grass and that the tractor we bought destroys lawns. We also know that we paid a lot of money for the tractors. The next logical step is to see what we can do to have the problem fixed. I'm not sure what "beyond left field" means in your part of the country but I would guess it means "somewhat less than logical". Purchasing an expensive machine that is advertised as a commercial mower from a company with a reputation for excellence is not an illogical choice. Most persons who send a message to this board are indeed looking for a response from their fellow compact tractor owners. This allows a healthy exchange of information among compact tractor owners and is what this board is intended for. As for JD stock ownership, I seriously doubt that anyone on this board owns enough JD stock to be concerned about their financial future.
....

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Roger L.
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1999-11-30          10508

Bruce, thanks for the term "Ackermann steering". I believe that this is the correct name for what I was attempting to explain from the memory of an article way too long in the past.
For Larry and the John Deere stockholders: I doubt that a spot of trouble with any one model line will affect JD stock at all. I sort of wish it would....but don't think so. The name JD is so strong that it may end up being more bulletproof than the product itself. In the last JD financial report that I read, they made a big pitch for JD's proposed expansion in their insurance division. They do lots more than build tractors. I didn't see any mention about compact tractors. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-01          10517

Yes Doug, I do own stock to some extent. I purchased a 4300, 72" belly mower and a 430 loader with a heavy duty bucket. You can't tell me that thisisn't somehow helping John Deere prosper with the prices over $20,000, granted some goes to the dealership that sold it. But according to Terry's posting above, there is at least one confirmed case of JD acknowledging that it is a problem by having a rep come out and inspect his lawn/tractor. By the way, I found the manufacturer of the front axle. And it is not made by Yanmar. I wonder what their response would be if someone were to email them to ask what the customers should do with this axle design? Just visit this site and read the story. Sure the story brags about the "ability to achieve tight turns", but is it really all it is cracked up to if you are unable to use that tight turn on the grass? I want to invite the Ted's and the Doug's of this posting to come over and take my 4300 for a spin on my lawn. Show me how wrong I am driving. But please bring some extra grass seed along. The straightaways are fine, but turning on the ends sucks. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Roger L.
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1999-12-01          10518

Who manufactures the front axle? I thought JD manufactured it? This might make it more difficult for JD to fix the problem. Keep in mind that the problem
might be in the relationship between the steering and the front axle. Is there any chance that those two components are made by the same company? If I were you I'd be making all the noise that I could on this thing. And not just depending on JD to fix the problem. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-01          10526

My dealer received information from JD DTAC that the new axle is going into production next week on the new tractors and that a FIX AS FAILS PIP will be coming out in February or March. The "Fix as Fails" means that there will be some criteria that will have to be met in order to qualify for the axle modification. DTAC did not infer or state what the qualification will be in order for the customer to receive the modification. While I very much appreciate my dealer and his continuing efforts at keeping his customers happy, I now wonder how JD will pick and choose which 4x00 owners get the axle fix? ....

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dougr
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1999-12-01          10530

Tim-Bruce, Hey guys, You missed the point of my posting, I'm with you, I hate the scuffing I get from my 4300 tractor, It is terry who said,"It is the nut behind the wheel" and I am disagreeing with him. My lawn (12 acres)looks like vandals hit it. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-01          10533

Actually Doug, I believe it was Ted who started the "nut behind the wheel" comment. Roger, if you go to my last posting, 12/1/99, click on the "web link, click here" at the very end. It will take you to that webpage I was talking about. And yes, the steering mechanism and front appear to have been made by Dana Corporation, according to this site. Please visit and give your comments. Happy tractoring...... ....

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Randy
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1999-12-01          10535

I followed Tim's link to the Dana corporation page. Others out there will recognize them as a very reputable name in axle design/manufacturing. I have as much confidence in them correcting the problem as I do in JD.
Randy ....

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Carl Redner
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1999-12-01          10536

Today I heard the same thing about a fix in February. "JD is aware of the problem and is working on a solution, possibly a new front axle. They expect this to be ready around February of '00." While I did not hear of how this will be applied to existing equipment, I trust they are working to a reasonable standard of care and are reasonable people.

As an explanation of the problem for those who don't have it, the front of the tractor will push when turning at a moderate radius or at a tight radius. While the condition gets worse as speed increases, it will occur at dead-slow, forward or backward, uphill, downhill or flat. It is also worse if there is an implement on the 3-pont that tends to want to make the tractor go straight.

Any thinking person who has seen the problem first hand knows this is not an operator error.

In the meantime, I have gotten really good at using the turning brakes. This took a while and I had a couple debilitating bouts of pedal confusion. I think, however, this is ok for now. I have wondered if adjusting the tie rods to a little toe out would help. Has anyone tried this?

Lighthearted color sparring is fun. When it goes beyond that, our little community here is weakened. Thoughtful consideration of a neighbor's problem would be more productive.

Carl R
....

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Ted
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1999-12-01          10539

Here we go again...... As I said previously, too many times, every tractor I have EVER owned (Orange, Blue, Green, and several shades of Red) 2wd & 4wd has suffered from this "problem". In fact I have been asking around since this topic came up (our family operates a large farm as well) everyone I spoke with said the same thing; if you run a tractor on grass with any thing short of implement (smooth baloon) tires on the front you will leave a couple of bare arcs in the grass where the front tires ran. Even the operator of the largest turf operation in Canada (a neighbour) confirmed this, he says it cost him ~$750 a pair for special tires that will not do this when cutting the turf before harvesting it. I never meant to offend anyone with the "loose nut behind the wheel" comment, it was offered in humour only.......the colour of the equipment may differ, the problems & pride are colour blind!! Best of luck folks...... ....

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Roger L.
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1999-12-01          10552

Tim, thanks for the link. I would love to see an exploded diagram of the new axle. The Dana description sounds a lot like the same geared-at-the wheel type of front axle that Yanmar marketed and then licensed to JD some years ago. My first guess would be that the Yanmar patent has expired. This could be a bonus to the entire industry, because I think that front axle is far and away better than other designs that I have looked at. It turns sharper, is far stronger, and also does away with the need for a constant velocity joint. The downside is that it is much more expensive to manufacture.
Reading between the lines of their press release, it sounds as though they had some problem meeting the release date for the new 4000 series tractors.. :-)
It is possible that the problem is simply that the differential is not differentiating as it should when the wheels are turned. I can envision a load such as that applied by the integral power steering making it more difficult for the spider gears to rotate freely. This is another area that we could look at if JD/Dana is unable to solve the problem. Roger L.
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scotty
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1999-12-01          10554

JD Dealer Oxford Pa here...
I have not visited the tractor board for quite some time and just wanted to reassure all the 4000 owners out there in (scuffville) that good old JD has not forgotten about the front axle problem ...In fact at the training meeting in Fl this year they (JD) addressed all the issues with the 4000 series tractors and the PIPS and Fix as Fails started rolling out. Folks there are alot of variables here and I'm sure that all of you would like your answers today.....As far as I can tell you all ...I traveled to London on a JD trip that I won for selling 4000 series tractors....I had an opportunity to talk with Jim Spear the head of the Augusta Ga facility that Manufactures the 4000 and 5000 series tractors....Jim and I shared comments and suggestions with other dealers about the problems with the 4000's....JD is prepared to fix all the tractors that customers are disatisfied with...and thats a fact.
And by the way .....the new axle will retrofit old units as far as I've been told by Augusta Engineers....
As a (2) store dealership we sold 120+ 4000's this year and I would be very humble and say that I know the competition very well.....
A NH,KUBOTA,KIOTI,and even a Massey Ferguson can be made to scuff in an extreme left hand or right hand turn....I encourage you to try it for yourselves...
keep in contact with your dealers and JD...Your satisfaction is JD prime concern. ....

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Terry
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1999-12-02          10563

Ted what I don`t understand is why you ask everyone about this problem, who do not own a 4000 series tractor, that would be like me asking everyone who own a Chevrolet about a Ford Problem, their both trucks, but dirrerent beast. Our concern is when turning, the tire will start scuffing the ground, pavement, dirt or what every. At about a 80 degree turn, or a thirty foot circle, I hope this will help you to under stand our problem (4000 series owners). Why don`t you ask them. ....

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Mario
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1999-12-02          10568

Hi All

I love this discussion. I feel bad for all the lawns. As a kid that mowed lawns my entire youth comercialy I have to ask. Why not get a lawn mower. The kind of machines that folks that do it for a living use. It seem that the 4WD tractor Idea is overkill to say the least. The heavy machine packs the grass down below the roots and makes big dents in the soft ground. I also have a 30 hp compact 4WD but never would consider putting a finish mower on it. For rough cutting fine.

It all reminds me of a pocket knife I wanted so bad as a kid. This thing did everything. It had sissors, a saw, spoons, fork and more (you may know what I am describing). I saved up and finally got one. Man it did none of the things it had potential to do well. I came upon it while cleaning out my dads estate. It was a good felling to remember the hope I had when saving for it.

mario

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Ted
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1999-12-02          10571

Terry, I ask around because I can't believe that the 4000 series JD product is vastly different from anything else out there, as evidenced by the replies I have recieved and the comments of the dealer in PA, "Scotty". In fact it seems maybe the guy who is most right is the one who says, why use a Swiss Army Knife to build a house. Now relax, I understand the pride of ownership, etc., but you must admit, a 4wd diesel tractor was not designed to cut the lawn, although it is POSSIBLE to do it. The reason I got involved in this subject in the first place was to say it's NOT just a JD 4000 series problem, it may be worse with them, but ANY machine will do that. And yes, I do use my compacts for "finished" cutting, in straight lines, on open ground, with 13-15' "Bat-wing" mowers out back. ALL trimming, end rows, etc., are done with 3 wheeled, front-deck hydro's. Finally, if you go back over the board, you will clearly see I only offer my "two-cents" (& 15+ yrs. experience as a commercial landscaper) on brand neutral issues unless I have first-hand experience, or owned that particular brand. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-02          10578

I think we need to step back and take a deep breath. Everyone, put your ego in your back pocket for awhile and focus on the issue, realizing we are dealing with opinions and varied experiences. It is important to Remember:"Everything is relative"..My perception of damage will be different from the next guy. Its fair to say that Ted has taken enough of a beating here. His idea of turf damage is based upon his business & years of experience. And that is what I or anyone should expect to hear from him..But Ted,(or anyone) I don't care how many years of experience or tractors you've owned in the past..Until you've planted your butt in the seat of a JD4000 series tractor, you truely cannot understand what some of us are facing. I've Demo'd 3 different Kubota models, a Honda 6522 and have experience on about a dozen various sized farm tractors..and can honestly say "something is wrong here" Placing blame on a tight turning radius ends up as a poor excuse after using a Honda 6522, which does circles around anything short of a NH Supersteer without a stitch of turf damage. I don't expect the 4100 to be as gentle as a lawn mower. But I do expect it to perform on par with others on the market, or at least how JD's line used to be. Kill the debate..50 e-mails later the problem remains.. Lets work on getting it solved and keeping each other informed! :) ....

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Ted
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1999-12-02          10581

MLS...I owe you a beer for hitting the mark.... Evryone else, I owe you a beer too, just 'cause I'm a nice (but loud) guy.... I sincerely apologize if I had offended anyone (maybe the beer will help?) as a business man I know how frustrating the gap between what the salesman said, and the machine does, can be. I was unaware of how drastic the problem was (since none of my fleet is Green), however, after the reaction I got I pulled a sneaky one on the local Deere dealer, I asked for the keys to a new 4xxx that was on his lawn, YIKES, what a mess, glad I don't have to FIX his lawn now. Gentlemen, I put this machine into what I considered to be a VERY gentle turn, sure enough, two new ditches. Let me assure you, IMHO there is NO WAY that any dealer can deny there is a PROBLEM with those machines. Bright side......NOBODY will be fooled into a 4XXX by my local dealer, at least not until the new grass grows in.......... ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-02          10586

MLS's and Ted's last two posts were both worded nicely and very informative. now that we've won Ted over to our side, JD should be easy ;-) Mike S. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-02          10595

FINALLY!!! Ted has seen the light!! Here is my take on this "heavy" tractor statement from Mario. My lawn is 2-3 acres, and was an old pasture when the previous owner built the house on it. It is very uneven, has some hills, and will be next spring's project to make it smooth. When we bought this place in the summer of 97, we had two lawn tractors, a 36" cut and a 46" cut, standard duty version (the kind you would buy at Walmart or Kmart, 11hp. and 18hp respectively). With 2 tractors, it would take us 3-4 hours to mow all of this due to mowing around the trees and the rough ground. When we finished, it was almost dark. The next night we would trim. (2 nights worth of mowing) Then in a couple of days we were back at it again. Our backs were still sore from all the bouncing around 4 nights ago on that rough lawn with those little tires. We finally bought a compact in December of 97. With a 72" mower, larger tires, more powerful engine, and a spring-suspended seat, I can get it done in a little over an hour. I can trim the same night. This leaves 3-4 nights of free time between mowings. When I work 55+ hours a week, this can really be a time savings! Not to mention no more backaches from rough turf. And if you look at the commercial mowers that a lot of companies own, something that is a 50-60" cut, they could easily get up to the $8000-11000 mark. And you can't hook up a real loader or tiller or box blade to most of those units. My 4300 will perform these tasks, at least that is what it is advertised for. I can also say that my Boomer or 4300 did a much better job mowing than the little puddle jumpers did. Except I have to make much wider turns with my 4300 than I did with my Boomer with supersteer. One more comment, Ted.... The webpage from Dana that I referred to a couple of posts ago DOES say that the axle is an all-new design, and incorporates an integral power steering cylinder to achieve a 62 degree steer angle on the OUTBOARD wheel. It's funny how they made mention of that outboard wheel angle.......it's the wheel that ALWAYS cuts up the turf. If they backed off on that angle to agree with the turn angle of the inboard wheel, I personally think this whole posting could have been eliminated! But we would still take you up on the beer, Ted. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-03          10605

I think I found my Twin Brother...Tim.
Nobody understood how mowing 2 acres used to take me 6-7 hours. Guess they're used to mowing wide open spaces. Anyway, our old AC (12hp/42" deck) is starting to show its years of use. I think I've spent more in replacement parts for the mower deck than the whole tractor is worth. So our search began..To make a long story short. It didn't take long for us to see that a compact would offer the "jack of all trades" features we were looking for. I will never argue that a compact is a direct replacement for a "Mower". Knowing our AC needed replacing, our financial & storage situation would allow us to either buy a little Mower that looks like a tractor, or buy a little tractor that can also mow. I know most of you can relate to the joy it brings on a saturday morning to pull out/plant a couple bushes, move some dirt/landscape rocks, mow the yard in the afternoon, and put the loader back on before dark to clean up all the crap your wife makes from cleaning the flower beds. All without a wheelbarrow, breaking your back, or going through 3 tanks of gas. Guess this is off the subject, but it was mentioned. I wish I had the money and storage space to have two units...But I don't..And to be honest..I'm pretty happy the way things turned out. ....

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Ted
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1999-12-03          10613

OK, I think I've figured out where I "parted company" with your line of thinking Tim....I'm a landscaper, the very FIRST thing I would have done is to take out the bumps, thats my job!! Therefore it would not occur to me that you would be mowing an "off-road race course"....... As for MLS... sorry, I'm spoiled (too many toys) after a few comments I stood back and realized it.....Thanks again everyone, you guys keep my feet on the ground, I'll continue to offer the "professional" (FWIW) advice....If anyone has a particular problem PLEASE feel free to e-mail me directly, as I don't always have a chance to check the "board"......Best of luck. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-03          10623

Well Ted, two things have prevented me from flattening 2+ acres of lawn. First and foremost, COST! What it would have cost me to kill the existing grass, till it up, flatten it down, overseed it, sod it, or whatever a landscaper would have recommended, would have been more than we could handle that soon after purchasing our house. Secondly, the property is located on quartzite, which isn't very porous, (read: not a huge ground water reserve) and I can run out of water in a half hour of watering lawn. It would take forever to water 2 acres, 30 minutes at a crack, until the grass came up. And it still means sitting on the little mower for 5 hours. I would love to flatten this property and have a barefoot turf with no bumps/weeds anywhere, but I am forced to leave it as is for now. I'm sure if I were to have hired a landscaper to bring in his equipment and redo this 2 acre area, I would have to get another job to pay the bill. (Gee, it would still take 3-4 hours to mow with 2 tractors after all that work, and sitting that long would still be hard on my back, but at least I would feel better knowing that I am keeping Ted's Turf Service in business. At least now I know he can afford to buy that new Kubota L3010 he has been eyeballing for a while). Don't take me wrong Ted, I enjoy the "color commentating" that you provide to this posting. We wouldn't accept anything less. :) ....

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Jeff M.
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1999-12-06          10680


After months of weighing my intended uses and studying orange, green, blue, and red compacts (didn't really consider yellow) I plan to purchase a JD 4300 HST 4wd with 430 loader, 48 backhoe, and 60" belly mower early next year. The info exchange on the 4xxx problems has been invaluable; I didn't buy last month because of the the front axle issues and made it clear to several dealers that I was holding off until JD acknowledged and resolved this problem. I consider this my small contribution of economic pressure to help solve the problem. Thank you to all contributors to this (somewhat lengthy) thread and related threads on 4xxx issues; you've helped me incredibly! ....

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brett
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1999-12-14          11022

I have a 4200 hst 60" belly 4x4. My tractor has scuffed up the ground badly since it was new. the tractor really has a short turning radius,but you cant begin to turn that sharp for fear of losing sod and not just grass. I dont think it scuffs any worse in 4x4 as oppossed to 2-wheel. It has basically disapointed me (for mowing). Another gripe that I have is that the dash fogs up continually. I have spoke to my dealer on both problems. He said a case report was made on the fogging dash and JD was aware of the problem, and the new models are being advertized as having non-fog dash. and that they will replace my dash at some point in time. As far as the scuff issue, he say's he has heard mention of a new
axle, but he acts as if Im the only person who is having this problem. would like to hear from anyone who has been told of a date when their tractor will be repaired or has had it fixed already. ....

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doug
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1999-12-14          11027

The fis is in! JD will begin sending parts to dealiers end of first quarter of 2000 so get your name in early so you have the fix before spring!!!!

Problem is caused by 2 cylinder system, one for each front wheel which alows the outside wheel on a turn to turn sharper then the inside causing the peeling that you are having, the old 955 series had tie rods which you will notice your tractor does not, thus the problem. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-14          11029

Humm, Checked My 4100, looks like it has tie rods with 1 Hydraulic steering cylinder. Funny how the same problem can occur with different front ends. Hope the fix entends to the 4100's ....

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wgb
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1999-12-14          11030

Can anyone confirm (from experience) that the new tractors from the factory have indeed been fixed and scuff no worse than any other tractor. ....

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Ross
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1999-12-14          11046

I'm not sure what is going on but I ordered a 4400 november10,called to check on the status of it and my dealer said that it was to be shipped the next day (dec. 1) I called on the 11th and he said that the shiped date was pushed back but he said that it would be in by the 30th,yea right heard that one before, He didn't hear of the scuffing problem but agreed with me that must be why it wasn't shiped any one else have any input as to how long before dellivery or the fix on the scuffing? ....

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Tim
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1999-12-14          11048

Doug, I checked my 1 year old 4300, it only has one turn cylinder. Where did you get your information from? I am waiting for an email from the JD territory manager for my area, who says he can give me the straight stuff on what is getting fixed, when, and all that good stuff. It's a pdf file, but if it comes out ok, maybe I can repeat it back to this posting. And Ross, I guess I can understand why the dealership would not want to disclose any known problem to a potential customer, such as turf tearing. What a way to lose a sale! My dealership said that they had several of these 4000's out to the golf courses with no problems heard so far concerning turf tearing. Hope Bob (the territory manager) can come through with some answers.
....

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tom
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1999-12-15          11049

If you aren't familar with .pdf files, they require an Acrobat reader. Acrobat
software is available free from Abobe Software and can be downloaded.

PDF documents often contain very fancy graphics and pictures. The graphics
requirements of a PDF document can exceed the capacity of some computers. ....

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doug
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1999-12-16          11114

Tim, 4300 has a cylinder to each wheel that work independly from each other, the 4100 are a totally different tractor built in japan and put together here, they do not scuff. ....

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Chris
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1999-12-16          11132

Doug I checked my 4400 & it has one two way cylinder. This cylinder works just like any other execpt the shaft runs out both ends of the cylinder.

I took delivery of the 4400 with 430 loader last week. Before I ordered the tractor I ask the dealer about the scuffing problem. He Knew about it and asured me that JD would correct the problem. The only problem I discovered was that the scuffing is more like plowing. I found the speed did not make any difference. It appears that the out side wheel turns sharper than the inside one. I hope they fix it soon
Chris ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-17          11159

Doug,
You mentioned that the 4100 does not scuff, do you own one? Mine does, and it would be nice to know if something is wrong with mine. Also, with the exception of ROPS & Tires, the 4100 are completely built in Japan.
....

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doug
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1999-12-17          11164

Chris you are right your tractor has one cylinder to each front wheel with one pump , the problem is that the wheels are not tied together with a tie rod so they work indenpendly thus the outside wheel turns sharper then the inside the fix will be out to the dealers about feb. and will cost about 3 grand a unit so JDis only replacing the units whos owners are complaining ....

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Chris
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1999-12-17          11173

Doug.
I can only speak to my John Deere 4400 tractor. After reading your post I went to the barn and crawled under my 4400. It has just one cylinder with a shaft running out of each end to the left & right wheels. This cylinder works similar to a rack & pinion unit on most newer cars. If as you say your tractor has two cylinders operating independent of each other, with one operating the left & the other the right front wheel than it appears to me the repair would be simple. All Deere would have to do is ajust the cylinders to get the angle right. This would not require a whole new front axle & cost $3000.00.

Chris.

P.S.
I never liked to argue with people, but this fall someone talked me into running for town council & I was elected, so I am just practicing.
....

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Tim
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1999-12-17          11201

Sorry Doug, I would have to side with Chris. This is a cylinder that has the rods sticking out both ends, with the piston directly in the center, kinda like this --[-/-]-- and not like a loader or lift cylinder, which has the piston at the end of the rod, like this [/--]-- . (Roger L. will be so proud of my intricate diagrams! lol) And yes, it is a solid connection between the left outer tie rod and the right outer tie rod, because it goes through the cylinder, which has one solid rod, not two. Besides, there would need to be 4 pressure lines to the cylinder if there were two cylinder pistons to get a variable turn as you have indicated, which there are not. I doubt something that sophisticated (a twin pistoned turn cylinder) would ever show up in a tractor. Maybe a Porsche or another brand of exotic car, but not in a tractor. My guess, is they are repositioning where the cylinder mounts under the front, along with a redesigned axle to correct the alignment. That cylinder is not $3000 by itself. IMHO, if Dana corporation is at fault in this whole bad dream for the axle design, I hope JD goes after them for compensation. I also heard that Dana lost out on a bid to supply axles for the next generation Dodge trucks coming out soon because of "difficulties DaimlerChrysler has experienced with noisy axles in the redesigned Grand Cherokees". Poor machining is the cause of the noise, as I am currently experiencing in both Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep service departments that I manage. Jeep had to come out with a 25 or 30 page service bulletin to address the noises, and how to properly diagnose them. Not to mention all the special tools that the dealerships now are required to buy to fix a problem that is Dana's fault (called "essential tools"). If it takes an axle and/or turn cylinder replacement to resolve the 4000's steering concern, then so be it. Take it away, Bo! ....

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bo
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1999-12-17          11208

Been reading a lot about the scuffing problem {don't quite know how you meant "take it away bo", tim} and sympathise. If you people with the problem are waiting for the company to proactively fix it without taking a definitive action yourselves,you probably are making a mistake. If my tractor was under warranttee and it scuffed and I got the responses from the dealer and rumors of a fix by JD, the first thing that should be done is to notify the the company by certified, return receipt letter that you have a difficulty that must be addressed. This establishes that the problem exists and it existed during the warranttee period. If the tractor was bought for the basic purpose of grass cutting then you should consider that the machine is not meeting "fitness of merchantability". This is , if the machined was designed to cut grass, then it should without eliminating the grass it was intended to cut. This cannot be denied by the manufacturer as unwarrantable, in any statement of warranttee or in any state in the union. Only when you establish in writing the problem will you have any recourse otherwise you will be waiting for corp. goodwill. I wouldn't bet on it as I read that the company may fix this on a case by case basis. Tell you what, even if you don't use your machine for grass cutting, primarily, I would still go for the letter because your resale will definately suffer if it isn't fixed. As a final thought, a class action suit is premature but it is something to consider if independent action fails. Don't wait for the company write your letters and protect yourselves. bo ....

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ken
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1999-12-18          11219

I think you will find that the axel used in the 4300 JD is made by Funf Inds.not Dana.I am sure the rear axel is Funk and owned by JD. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-18          11221

Ken, did you visit the web page as I had posted earlier? Dana does manufacture this axle for the 4300. See my earlier posting for the page. Click on the web link thing at the end of my posting, and it will take you to the web page announcing the joint venture between JD and Dana corporation. ....

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John
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1999-12-18          11228

Talked with my dealer yesterday about the scuffing on my 4300.He called John Deere and they said that the problem was with the MFWD gears.He said they were going to change gears and that would reduce front overspeed by 2 1/2 percent.He said he had not known till I call him to let him know.That seems to be a little different than what I have been reading here. ....

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Tim
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1999-12-18          11235

John, that may be true if this was a problem strictly when engaged in 4x4, but with it disengaged, the front axle gearing makes little difference in the equation. I just used mine today, and it really does make a whining noise when the front axle is engaged going down the road. No, I was not on dry pavement! My road was very icy and I locked up the rear tires when I released the forward pedal too abruptly when the front wheels were disengaged. I have often wondered if they had incorrect gearing and/or tire sizes in the front to make it whine like that. And Bo, we hadn't heard from you on this posting for some time, and we needed your words of wisdom. I ain't kidding on that one. :-) ....

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bo
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1999-12-18          11245

Tim- I did post a response to your previous post where you described your steering set up. Your gear whine and scuffing problem is something that I haven't experienced in my 870. I did discuss toe in with I think Roger. Without direct experience and study of the scuffing problem, I would be guessing and poorly at that. I can tell you and all the other owners who have this problem what I would do. {see earlier post} I'll repeat it if anyone is interested. First off it seems to me that this is a significant problem with a lot of 4000 jds. It also seems that the owners are waiting for a goodwill fix from JD and are getting a lot of rumors, denials, maybes, and possible case by case fixes. I beleive in the flag, apple pie and a handshake with a man's word but not in today's world. The first thing I would do is establish in writing with JDand cc. to the dealer that this tractor is not doing what it was designed to do. This letter I would mail directly to the president of Jd politely expressing the problem and expecting a charge free fix. The letter would be mailed "certified, return receipt requested"" to both JD and dealer. This is the only legal recourse you would have should JD decide not to fix your machine and tells you to essentially pound salt. A paper trail, yes, but mandatory. Some one in a earlier post mentioned we shouldn't tar and feather the company , and wait and see what the company will do. How long you going to wait? What protection do you have if your tractor goes out of warranttee and the company denies your claim? Imaging the impact that several hundred letters, all certified hitting the presidents desk would have? Incidently, any local library could provide the name and address of the pres. A Moody's or Dun and Bradstreet would have the name, address. You gentlemen have to practice self defense and this is the first step. The second thing is 'fitness of merchantibility'. Essentially, it means that the machine will do what it purports to do . That is drive on and cut grass without destroying the grass. If it doesn't do this then it is not fit to "merchandise" and, no disclaimer from the company can take away this implied warranttee. Let's face it , you all aren't happy and the vague response from the company isn't making you any happier. You seem to be, for the lack of a better word bitching to each other on this board and are hoping that the company will correct the problem without defending your selves. If you think that the company will readilly part with $3000 per to fix, then Roger's tooth fairy syndrome comes into play. In summary, I seem to love summaries, The machine isn't working, your investment is degraded, your resale is lowered, your lawn costs are higher {slower work, anxiety,etc.}you ain't happy, and you are not getting positive support from the dealer network or the company. Heck, forget cutting grass, you can't even drive on turf without fear of destroying it. bo ....

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Mike S
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1999-12-18          11247

Here is the name and address of the JD CEO. There have been enough problems with the earlier models of the 4200-4300-4400 series of JDs that, IMHO, JD should provide a free one year additional warranty instead of charging $600; or be required to do so via class action or by the federal government. Since it will take one year or more to get the lawn scuffing issue resolved (hopefully within that time frame and NO LATER), there is slightly less than half of the warranty remaining which is another reason to extend the warranty one year--JOHN DEERE ARE YOU LISTENING????
Here is the name and address of the CEO of JD:
CEO, Hans Becherer,
Deere & Company,
1 John Deere Place
Moline, IL 61256

....

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bo
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1999-12-18          11248

Tim- been thinking about your gear whine. Gears will whine in older machines due to wear. Assuming yours is a newer machine then your gears whine, maybe,because they haven't been shimmed correctly for clearence. With time in service, they should wear down and mate better and run quieter. Would I wait for time to pass? Nope, would research if the gears are in fact shimmed and if so, then if under warranttee {how do spell that?} have the dealer check if they require shimming. Of course, at slower speeds you won't hear the singing as much but if it annoys you at higher speeds,check it out. I had a good chuckle about the one post wherin the dealer told a scuffing complainer that they had several out at golf courses with no complaints. Even if they were used to cut the fairways, which I doubt as they use gang mowers, does anyone expect someone getting near minimum wage, driving long and straight with wide turns at the ends to care and report scuffing. Hope the guy didn't buy the golf course thing.bo ....

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bo
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1999-12-18          11249

Mike--see that you are annoyed with JD. Federal action will never happen cause it isn't a safety issue. Class action is premature and really hard to put together in that there is nothing in it for the attorney. For an attorney to touch it, there would have to be some kind of punitive award and there won't be. You would have to have a lawyer with a scuffing problem who would carry it with little or no financial reward. Besides, betcha a lawyer with a scuffing problem has already established legal foundations for future action. bo ....

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bo
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1999-12-18          11250

John- dealer is blowing smoke, you know where. The only way he couldn't have known is if he sold only one unit, yours. bo ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-18          11251

Bo--yep--you got the distinct impression that I am annoyed with JD. Since I owned an orange tractor for ten years and that tractor was flawless in operation and NEVER went back to any dealer. In fact, the total repair costs for the tractor in that ten year period was $ 9.95 for a tachometer cable. Then I switched to a JD955 until the 4400 came out and ordered a fairly early model. It has had several problems, which were handled quickly and efficiently by the dealer. I am confident in my dealer that the lawn scuffing will be taken care of also, providing that JD engineers and authorizes a fix (the dealer could not be expected to take a $3K beating to fix the front axles on their own). I am frustrated that JD expects early purchasers of this new line of tractors to do their field testing--which is why I feel that JD should extend the warranties of the early models by one year, both to reimburse us for our time and efforts of dealing with defects as well as covering any additional defects that might show up later. My 4400 has the potential of being a fantastic tractor once the damned defects are satisfactorily repaired. I figure that I am good for one more tractor before the nursing home beckens and would I again look to the green next time??--dunno, but if it were not for a truly great dealer, the answer would be hell no. ....

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Robert
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1999-12-19          11252

I have owned my 4100 since April. I had never noticed any scuffing while mowing (brush hog or finish mower). I have been reading this posting on the scuffing problem for some time now, so today I took my tractor down on some new winter grass that is about 6 inches high (very tender and green). When I mow, the tractor is in 3LO, so I tried this speed for a while (short and long turns) with no scuffing. Next I tried 4LO and cranked the steering as far as I could both right and left, even went around in a tight circle 10 times (flattened the grass, but no scuffing. I was wondering at what ground speed most of you mow (I'm not saying that this is the problem, just curious). ....

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Jim Fisher
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1999-12-19          11260

I've owned a 4200 (HST - Turf Tires) for over a year. During that time I've put about 275 hours on the tractor doing any number of chores, some of which I probaly should be doing with larger tractor.

I recently attended the John Deere Days promotion at my local dealer. During the evening session, which was dedicated to commercial and lawn and garden products, the problems with the the 4000 series tractors was one of the focal points of the discussion.

The dealer passed a tablet around the room and asked that each person note any and all problems that they have experienced with their John Deere products.

We were told that the 4200 tractors have had the front axle re-designed and that all tractors going forward would be equipped with the new design. I was told that my tractor will be retro-fitted with the new axle if I so desire.

We also discussed some of the other problems with the 4000 series along with some issues involving earlier tractors (55 and 70 series) and implements. There was even a very brief discussion of an issue with a short line implement that the dealer sold.

There is an updated instrument panel that will be retro-fitted if there is a problem with trapped moisture.

The tire clearance problem with the quick couplings at the four-way valve will be corrected by retro-fitting shorter couplings.

I was also told that the front tire clearance issue with the 72" mid-mount mower will be addressed.

Each time a new problem was raised, the dealer would ask if the problem had been noted on the tablet. If it had not, the tablet was handed to the person who brought up the issue so that that person could add it to their list.

The dealer, who is participating in a meeting at the compact tractor plant in Georgia, sometime in January, indicated that he intends to provide our feedback to John Deere at that time.

The dealer also provided the URL of this message board and suggested that those of us with internet access read this thread. He was very open about the fact that he feels that this thread illustrates that there are levels of customer service at other dealerships that are not up to the standards that he feels are appropriate for his dealership. That was the only time during the session that he promoted his dealership as being superior to others. The rest of the time was focused on the needs of his customers.

He did, of course, thank us for being his customers, potential customers, and friends and for contributing to his success with the John Deere compact tractor and implement line.

I've followed this thread (and many others) from the beginning. From where I sit, the threads make it appear although John Deere may be ready, willing, and (presumably) able to address customer satisfaction issues and correct their mistakes, some of their dealers have dropped the ball.

Just my two cents. ....

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bo
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1999-12-19          11266

Jim- doesn't seem as if you got a scuffing problem. But if you feel that you also want your front axle replaced, go back to your dealer and ask him to put it in writing. If it is good enough to say then it is good enough to put on paper and commit to the action. You'll be surprised or I will be. bo ....

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Roger L.
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1999-12-19          11267

Jim, it sounds like your have a great dealer. I hope his business prospers. It is equally obvious from this thread that not all dealers are as helpful. The problem with the helpful dealer is that he can't really do much for you if the company does not provide the solution. But like Bo says, each one of you with a problem needs to get legal written documentation that your product is not working up to the standards that it was advertised at...and you need to file this with JD during the warranty period. This will help the good dealer, as it is the only thing at all that will give him leverage at the factory. I do not doubt JD's goodwill, but there is nothing wrong with being businesslike.
BTW,just to identify my own bias: I have two compacts, a full size JD, and JD stock, but I do not have a JD4000 series tractor...so just like Bo, I'm drawing on longtime tractor and engineering experience and trying to provide a moderator's viewpoint. It does sound to me like some of you are getting different stories from different JD dealers. This worries me, because it indicates that JD itself has not yet settled on a fix for this problem.....Does anyone know if JD has officially published anything that specifically refers to this problem as something that they intend to address? As corporations function, doing this is the necessary first step in developing a solution. If I were you guys I'd sure want to see something in writing......... ....

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bo
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1999-12-19          11268

Jim- you also mentioned that some dealers have dropped the ball for their customers and in some way seemed to justified JD. I don't let JD off so easy. JD operates a closed loop distribution system in brief, dealers don't use competative products and the customer must go thru the dealer and can't {not easily}break the loop and deal directly with the manufacturer. This type of system requires the manufacturer to exercise control on the dealers dealings with the customer. If some of the dealers are not doing their job then it is JD's responsibility to know this and correct the problem. If the only feedback that JD has as to customer satisfaction and dealer performance is from the dealer ship then poor dealers will always exist. Any of you ever had JD talk to you directly as to how you perceive their product line and/or dealer performance?bo ....

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Roger L.
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1999-12-19          11272

Bo, it sounds like you and I have the same concerns on this scuffing problem.. It sure beats me. I would think that some of these guys would be beating down JD's door. But they seem to be confident that JD recognises the problem, is working on a fix, and will provide this fix to them ANY DAY NOW. I hope they are correct, at least partly because I've gotten curious about the technical side of the problem.
John Deere has a wonderful reputation, and this popular reaction proves it. Either way you look at it, JD is a good company to own stock in. :-) Roger L. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-12-19          11281

Roger L.--I am not so sure that 4200-4300-4400 owners HAVE confidence in the JD Co. to fix the scuffing and other issues with this new line of tractors. We can turn to our dealers, but in the event that does not prove success for some owners--where do those unhappy JD customers then turn for help. With strong automobile lemon laws in many states and with available arbitration between unhappy automobile customers and the auto companies, there is a chain of command that eventually ensures a warranty issue being satisfactorily fixed; but I an uncertain of any similar provisions where a mere mortal individual JD customer can go around their dealer and go directly to JD for help--fill me in here for those unlucky enough to have an uncaring dealer (DOES NOT INCLUDE ME!) I am fairly new to the JD brand and have confidence in my dealer, but I am unsure at this point whether the apparent confidence in the JD Brand is due to an earned confidence or from a highly effective public relations firm that artifically instills the confidence. From my personal perspective and experience, my confidence in orange tractors is due to it being earned in my case, and any confidence that I WILL have in JD WILL have to be earned by their actions in engineering good fixes and then through my dealer in correcting deficiencies in my 4400 AND then after years of trouble-free tractoring I WILL have confidence in JD. ....

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scotty
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1999-12-19          11290

To all 4000 Owners associated with this tractor board...

I am about to open Pandoras Box here so everyone hold on..
I am the dealer from Pa (Jim Fisher's Dealer)
I am traveling to Augusta Ga. in January to attend a customer/dealer focus meeting with John Deere and the 4000 engineers....My response to this board and my dedication to JD, my Dealership, and my Customers has prompted me to be bold enough with this next statement to all of you out there in scuffville (etc.) Please put togeather a BREIF summary of your concerns with your JD tractor and E-mail them to the address attached. I am interested in all of your comments and suggestions....Please no JD BASHING....Those E-mails will be canned..
Folks I intend to go to Augusta with as a much information as possible.
I also plan to find a pc when there and logon to jplan for JD to see first hand. ....


Link:   4000 series customer concerns

 
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bo
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1999-12-19          11293

Scotty- What you are attempting to do is most admirable and certainly in the tradition of the John Deere Co. which has been venerated by Americans since its inception. You might have noted that there were several posts with advise on the scuffing problem recently and very few reponses to those posts. I think either the people with the problem are out for the weekend or they are numb from all of the previous discussions.. If you do not get a lot of emails in responce to your offer, then , if I might suggest that you still hook up a pc at the conference and log on to this board and go to "thread order" {menu at top of the screen} and show the JD people the pages on "4300 scuffing..and more" This is deep into the page listings so you have to look for it. You will be doing the customers a heck of a favor and I personally don't like JD knocked and would like to see them take a greater interest in the people that made them an American institution. Need a dealer like you near me. Bo ....

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DennisCTB
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1999-12-19          11296

The best way to see the Meesages on Scuffing is to goto the Brand Menu, then John Deere, then choose Most Popular Messages. Then You Will see all the topics on JD in descending order.

You could also simply put in 'scuff' in the Search Box at the top also.

The link for the most Popular Messages for JD is below. ....


Link:   Most Popular JD Messages

 
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Jim Fisher
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1999-12-19          11306

Bo, Roger L., Mike S., Scotty, everybody: Bo, my tractor does scuff, but it is less of an issue to me than to some of the other folks. My lawn is rough and hilly and doesn't resemble a golf course in any way. I realized when I bought the tractor that a 3000 pound machine would not be as easy on the turf as the 1000 pound commercial mower that I now use for trimming. I did not, however, expect the amount of scuffing that the 4200 gives me. The trade-off is time and comfort. I had originally intended to continue to mow with the Yazoo and use the 4200 for other maintenance chores. The time and effort that I save when mowing with the 4200 convinced me that it is the better choice when it's time to mow. As far as putting things in writing, the real proof will be the correction of the problems. The last thing that any of us needs is a couple of teams of lawyers searching for a misplaced 'whereas'. As far as the John Deere closed loop distribution goes, my understanding is that the customer must go through a John Deere dealer for waranty sevice and repair, but I am not aware of the customer being bound to the dealer from which the product was purchased.
John Deere has a dealer locator on their web site which allows you to find all the John Deere dealers in virtually any part of the country. And yes, there was a representative from John Deere at the meeting last Wednesday evening. He didn't say much but I suspect that he is now aware of the issues and concerns of the retail customers. Mike S., I agree that positive experience is the best confidence builder. I spent much of my youth around tractors of various colors on the farms in our area. My choice of the John Deere 4200 was very much influenced by the A and B and 420 crawler that I've owned through the years. And I don't think that I made a bad choice. Even with the problems that have been discussed in this thread and many others, the tractor does more than I expected it to do. I have about 87 acres. I rent 20 acres of to a neighbor and mow about five acres. The rest is mostly wooded and is being overrun with multiflora. With this little tractor and loader and an old Woods rough cut mower, I'm starting to take back a lot of the overgrown area. Last fall, I cleared an area of a couple acres that used to be open about twenty-five years ago. This weekend I cut back about half of a quarter mile fence row on my west line. I expect to finish the fence row over the holidays and start putting in about 900 feet of post and rail fence along the road if the ground doesn't freeze. If the power goes out in a storm, I hook up a PTO generator and run the necessities. No more showering at my inlaws and hauling water to flush the toilets. I could do any of this with and orange or red or blue tractor, but I prefer to go home on the horse I rode in on. ....

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bo
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1999-12-20          11312

Jim--You misunderstood me. I said lawyers are premature and probablay wouldn't touch the problem for the reasons previously stated. {your call for class action lawsuit}. A closed loop distribution system has nothing to do with the customers choice of dealer before or after the sale. Again, in brief , it only deals with agreements between the manufacturer and dealer,the general effect on the customer is that the customer must go through a dealer for problem solution and the customers ability to deal directly with the manufacturer is severely limited. Even with a direct line to the manufacturer, the customer is invariably referred back to the dealer for problem resolution. With this type of system and all of its intracacies, competative forces are reduced and prices are generally inflated. Real tough to dig into this and explain it in a couple hundred words or less. I still would protect myself and not bet on goodwill. I've studied the history of JD, Ford, IH{farmall} AC, and others. These companies made the American and Canadian farmers the most successfully productive in the world, Highly respected cos. but in the name of bottom line,and lack of consumer pressure, they too, can go bad. bo




c ....

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Roger L.
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1999-12-20          11313

I don't think that anyone is suggesting lawyers. I'm of the old-fashioned belief that reasonable people (includes businesses) can generally work out a solution to any problem. But both side have to want to do so, and the first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have one. Either JD is working on a solution to this problem or they are not. Most of you seem to believe that they are, and that is fine - I hope so too. But if they trying to solve it then I can't see a reason in the world why they would be adverse to obligating themselves to do so. I think that all you would have to do is ask them.
....

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bo
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1999-12-20          11316

Futher more, at the expense of getting really boring and because I received no answers to one of my original questions,{has anyone been contacted directly by JD for their opinion...}I wonder why a very successful company seems to not practice quality marketing basics. That is, communication which is upward from the ultimate consumer, the commuications that I can only infer from this board is strictly downward from the company. Maybe they have method by which the dealers are to bring messages up to corp. but that generally fails because of a variety of reasons, message noise, interpretation problems, errors in repeating, etc. I understand that JD has a myriad of divisions but when you enter a product line, with start up costs in the millions, then I would think that the company would pull out all stops and make sure they know what the ultimate customer thinks. Talking to you guys from the corp. would be easy, there are not many manufacturers that command the type of loyalty that we give the Co. I would think that they would nurture it. Heck, as my wife and I drive around the country we still spot and get excited when we see JD green and this is so even as jaded as I am. bo ....

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mario
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1999-12-20          11318

Hi All. I thought the oil thread was long. Bo, You are "right on" on this one. JD Corp. is getting off way too easy not replying directly to this group. "Right Here" It is a major failing on there part. Why have a web presence at all if you have no intention of supporting it with the latest news and techno. updates. Hell with the following they have, they can use this as the biggist marketing sucess story ever. And yes, for pennies on the dollar. Maybe they just dont know how to fix the problem yet or the fix is a major design flaw which may not be just a front end concern. Anyway I hope some one does take Bo's advise and send the hard copy to the dead letter file (green unhappy pile) at JD corp..

At least the lawyers will have to read it and plan a settlement deal.

Happy tractoring


....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-12-20          11321

Here's the deal folks,
Wanting to be proactive, and thanks in large part to all of your postings under this thread....This thread HAS BEEN read by a JD Corporate rep..Take this response as you wish, but the JD Rep indicated that she did not realize the problem was this "wide spread" (Thank to the Internet). She said JD knew of a problem with "some" of the DANA axles, but did not realize the extent to which it appears. She also indicated that it would not be a fix, but rather a completely new front end.
Appearantly "I" am the first to communicate a problem with a 4100..of which has not been included in JDs focus. In explaining the situation, I heard anything from overinflation to an inherent problem with a tight turning tractor. My reply was for her to visit us..For purpose of eliminating any further excuses or reasons. This may actually happen! but she wanted to do a bit of Corporate investigation first. It will be interesting to hear if JD thinks +2" of non adjustable toe-in is normal?? Considering my dealer mentioned 3/8" being normal for large tractors. She also asked to have a copy of this post to take back to Corporate for one of her meetings sometime this week..(Glad nobody used foul language) BTW: she will be back on December 21st(tomorrow), at Pikeville Equipment in Oley, PA. If anyone has something they would like for me to give her..I will gladly do so.. Also FYI and OMO: I think CTB may now be recognized as a site visited by Corporate JD...Possibly.. One last thing..She indicated dealer complaints have been moderate, in relation to what is appearantly being said by the end user (You & I). She indicated that this was also a concern of her's.
Hey, I don't know what was lip service and what was real, but either way information seems to be going where it needs to go. Plus, I might actually get my 4100 fixed..(adjustable tie rod) Like my dealer said..We're not done yet!! ....

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bo
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1999-12-20          11324

Mls- How about that. Knew old JD would eventually see the light. Old story of the 2x4 and the mule. Now it is going to up to the boys/girls with the problem to persue this in a professional manner. Might be a good idea for someone to go through the old posts and contact each one by email in case they are no longer reading this board. Won't be me cause I have no vested interest in this problem and I'm on the road tomorrow. Taking my laptop so that I can stay in touch. Strenght in numbers {bravo,mls bravo}bo ....

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Bill
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1999-12-20          11328

Hey Bo! That's my line! Anyway, attaboy MLS. Hope it really happens for ya. Bill ....

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wgb
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1999-12-20          11332

Can someone PLEASE verify whether or not the JD 4600 4wd has/had this problem.
Thanks, Will ....

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mario
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1999-12-21          11351

Hi All. MLS good job reporting the inside contact at JD. I still feel that this
forum is the place for JD to respond directly. It is a shame that a single post needs to be brought into a board room. That is the lamest thing, and just shows how far the executives are from there products and customers. As I said before, this is a major failing. Not only of there quality system, but also of there failure analysis system, and customer satisfaction levels on a new product line.

I would hope the board can link up while right in there meeting room and review most if not all of the trouble reports off this thread. After all, the quality system they claim to have in place calls for review and disposition of every last one. They can ignor it not for ever. If I were on that board, I would insist on reporting directly with the customers without the dealers as a middle man. How many dealers are qualified in trouble shooting design problems with stering geometries and the like. I would be very concerned with miss communications from this added layer of insulation in the reporting of problems.

Happy tractoring/ Happy holidays

....

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wgb
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1999-12-28          11549

I am ready to purchase a JD 4400. Should I purchase it now and rely on John Deere to replace the axle when the retrofit is available or order one with the new axle which I am told will go into production in January. I have a use for the tractor immediately and hate to wait the 2 months it may take to get a "new production" model. Thanks, Will ....

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Chris Rosenberger
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1999-12-28          11553

I was faced with this same problem 4 weeks ago when I decided to purchase a tractor. The dealer asured me that John Deere was aware of the scuffing problem and it would be taken care of. So I bought a 4400 with a 430 loader they had in stock & do not regret the decision. I have used it to pull, push & dig out trees, haul fire wood & mulch & I am sure I wiil be moving snow soon. Chris ....

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Terry Weivoda
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1999-12-28          11567

I am in somewhat of the same situation. I am in negotiations with my dealer to trade my 4300 for a 4600. I plan on waiting until the new MFWD axles are in production. I think this is the way to go despite my dealers' assurance that Deere is going to install the new MFWD axle on the current tractors (where the customer has complained of the scuffing). I am also hearing some rumors (not from my dealer) that there are other changes coming on the new production tractors. Again, they may be only rumors but I am hearing that the new tractors will have the MFWD control lever moved to a more convenient location along with the pto control lever. I also understand that telescoping draft links for the three point hitch will be offered as an option. The New Holland has this feature and that alone is probably worth the wait. ....

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scott slavin
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2000-01-23          12180

4000 series owners with scuffing issues.
News from the John Deere Augusta Factory Focus Meeting (scotty/Dealer/Ox,Pa)
The first thing the Augusta Marketing Director asked me when we met was "How many responses did you get to your post on the scuffing thread?" so for all of you that have heard John Deere does not know ther is a problem or thay are not paying attention to this forum.....They have heard you and the plan is the following: New axles are currently in production and have been since 1/1/00. All JD Dealers that have had customers with a scuffing problem will have access to the retrofit assembly axle in late April00. It will be a complete change out of the existing axle. Oh and the problem all along has been a geometry over sttering problem with the production axle from (Dana). The Engineers I met in Augusta were very open to comments and suggestions....And I can assure you that John Deere is aware of all the issues and are prepared to do what ever each consumer needs done to satisfy any problems. Please if you have a problem with your 4000 series John Deere contact your JD Dealer and ask them to log a case on your behalf....If any of them say it is not possible than e-mail me with your issue, model#,serial#, and date of purchase and I will see that it gets intothe right hands. In closing, knowing this will be read by many people, After seeing the operation first hand in Augusta and meeting the real green people that make it happen every day.....You guys&gals are doing an incredible job.....and there are many,many,many...satisfied customers out there ......
GREAT JOB! ....


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Ross
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2000-01-23          12181

scott thanks for all your help could you find out what seiral number the new axle started with ? ....

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DennisCTB
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2011-10-12          180835

This post is from way back! But interesting in that this was such a tough problem for John Deere in the compact market place.

Any body from back then or current owner of the impacted models have an update on how you are doing?
....

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harvey
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2011-10-16          180913

As I recall there were several threads about this. I have a 4400 8/2002 if I remember. I bought it with turfs on it. Was back at JD after reading about it here and complained and they changed it no questions.

The tractor is now pushing 2000 hours rear tires like new yet and am on the 2nd set of steer new last year.

Neighbor has 4400 with old style axle does not use it on his lawn and it still working good and it does scuff. ....

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