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Should I buy a finishing mower

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jonathanengr
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 100 Bostic, North Carolina
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2004-04-12          82834

I'm trying to decide what implements to buy with my tractor, and I need something to mow my yard and fields. I have a little 42" lawn tractor, but it takes me nearly 4 hours to mow everything NOT including my back field.

Most of the areas are flat and well-groomed, but in the front yard I do have several trees. However, they are lined up in rows with 20 feet separating each of them. I've thought about a MMM, but on the tractor I'm buying (Kubota 3430) the mid pto is a $2000 option plus the cost of the mowing deck. I just don;t want to spend that kind of money if I can avoid it. Would a finishing mower be a good choice? Exactly *how* uneven of an area can it be used over? The fields are VERY flat as well as my back yard, but the front is a bit "lumpy". Also, will the finsihing mower (prob a 60" or 72") do as good a job mowing as my little 42" lawn tractor? Lastly, side discharge? Back discharge?


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-04-12          82839

I use a RFM on my 7800 and love it. Easy on and off and does a great job. Takes some getting used to, but for the convenience, it is worth it. ....

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Murf
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2004-04-12          82843

I go by a different theory, I stick with 'specialized' machines.

Instead of using my CUT just to cut grass, which it's less than perfect for, especially around trees and obstacles, both of which I have plenty of, I have a commercial front-deck 3-wheeled grass amchine, a Ferris Pro-Cut 20. It will cut 3 acres an hour without breaking a sweat and trees and manueveriing around stuff is a breeze.

I would think for the price of a decent 3pth finishing mower you could get a real nice used grass-eater. Sure makes life easy.

Best of luck.

....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2004-04-12          82845

Jonathan, get yourself a RFM. It'll cut anything an MMM and your 42' will. Also, it'll look good enough for anyone's taste.
....

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kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-04-12          82850

I have the 60"MMMM on my 7800 and my reasoning for getting it is mowing around things. It is a lot easier if the deck is under you as opposed to having to look behind you to make sure you aren't taking out a flower bed or side of the house. Also you have to go slower to give the grass those big rear tires are mashing down to stand back up. With the MMM you only have the little front tires going over it. The only downside to the mid mount is that it isn't as easy to take on and off as the rear finish mower. Although on my 7800 I have quite a bit of ground clearance when locking the deck up out of the way and it only takes a few minutes to take it off with the FEL lifting it in the air. I don't think you will get as nice a cut with a rear finish mower as you do with a mid mount due to the length of the set up and the top link can cause issues too. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-12          82851

I'd agree with Murf, for the price of a mid-PTO and MMM I'd buy a used commercial mower. You may then no longer need your lawn tractor and could sell it and roll that into the price of the used commercial mower. You'd probably get a better finish cut this way as well. ....

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jonathanengr
Join Date: Sep 2003
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2004-04-12          82852

All very good points, but I'm a bit wary about any "open" mower. We have terrible yellow jacket problems where I live, thus the choice to buy a tractor with a cab. One of the main things I plan to use my tractor for is mowing, and the enclosed operator's area is, in my opinion, a must-have.

Essentially, will I get a pretty good cut with a finishing mower? That's really the bottom line for me. Someone mentioned having to wait for the grass to "stand up" after the tires run over it. Is this really a problem? A used commercial mower would definitely be the "easiest" as far as control and such, but in wide open areas I just don't see it as being a very big issue, anyway. (The only area with trees is the front yard which is tiny compared to the rest of my property). ....

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jonathanengr
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2004-04-12          82853

I guess another good way to approach this question is "What are finish mowers good for?" It's obvious they are popular items--every implement manufacturer seems to have its own line of them in a wide array of sizes. ....

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Billy
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2004-04-12          82857

A finish mower is for cutting your lawn. An MMM and a RFM are both finish mowers. The only difference is where they hook up to the tractor. ....

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AnnBrush
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2004-04-12          82864

One difference between a MMM and a RFM is the ability to handle uneven grades and slopes. The ability of a MMM to cut lawn to the same length on an uneven slope is generally less than that of a RFM. This is because the wheel base of the MMM is the same as that of the tractor carrying it (generally quite a bit bigger than the mower). With a RFM the wheel base of the mower is usually just a little bigger than the mower deck itself (usually much smaller than the tractor wheel base). Consequently (all other things being equal) a RFM does less "scalping" and gives a more consistent cut. That said ability to position the MMM is usually better than with a RFM so it usually boils down to personal preferances. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-04-12          82884

from what you are saying you woulld be alright with the rfm and still use you little rider for the front if you find the rfm to to combersom. I would recomend a 60" model you or maby even a 72" if you are going to keep it well gromed. like i said if you dont like doing the front with it use your little one. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2004-04-12          82894

jonathonengr,
If you go with a RFM on a 3430, I recommend at least a 72" mower.
I easily run a 72" Rear finish mower on a tractor of similar HP and sometimes wish I would have went with 84".
You would find a 60" to small for that tractor in my opinion. ....

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texbaylea
Join Date: Feb 2004
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2004-04-12          82908

I have used a 48" RFM behind my B6100E Kubota for 20 years. First a Kubota unit and now a Land Pride. For a while we had a home in town but lived mostly in the country. I would haul my Kubota CUT down and mow that 1/2 acre and it would look just as good as my neighbors in 1/2 the time, a little weed eater work and I was done and could load a few items to take back. I recommend a RFM. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2004-04-13          82911

I use a 72" landpride rear mount it does a beautiful job. It has high lift blades so it tends to pick up the grass. ....

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kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-04-13          82920

AnnBrush:
Your comments are confusing as a RFM will not do as well on uneven ground unless you are using the chains as opposed to the rigid toplink. Most mmmm have anti-scalp rollers on the front. From all of the dealers that I talked to and other people, they all agreed that you get a better cut with a mmm.
If you have the room and arm trying to mow close to items then go with the RFM. It is easier to take off thus the maintenance on it is a lot easier. Plus you won't risk damaging it while doing other work such as loader work. ....

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jonathanengr
Join Date: Sep 2003
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2004-04-13          82923

Thanks so much for everyone's input. It seems the finish mower is exactly what I'd like to have. Most people in my area mow fields with a brush mower, but I want to keep mine better-groomed. A finish mower is more expensive, but well worth it in my opinion. I plan on buying a brush mower, too, for cleaning up overgrowth in some areas, but want to use the finish mower on my groomed areas.

One thing mentioned above does raise a question in my mind. Should I buy a "solid" (one-piece) 84" finishing mower, or would I be better off with a two-piece that can conform to curves better? What sizes do they come in? How do they compar in price? Also, I was told to use chains on the finsih mower as opposed to the steel links. From what I read above, I assume this *is* the best way to attach it to the lifting mechanism? ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-04-13          82998

84" is a little big for that tractor stick with a one pice unit and get an anti scalp roller. you really dont want the mower swaying behind you so the solid adjustable licks are the way to go. ....

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jonathanengr
Join Date: Sep 2003
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2004-04-14          83089

You really don't think the 3430 will handle an 84" deck? I doubt if I'd buy one that big, but it concerns me that it might bog down with that size deck.

As for the linkage while mowing, my understanding was that I'd use the two solid steel bars to attach the mower, but use a chain instead of the solid bar for the "lifting" mechanism. That way the deck can travel up and down freely--not side to side. Am I corect in this assumption? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-04-14          83090

Jonathan, you're talking about vertical travel, oneace is talking about lateral movement.

The lower 2 lift arms of the 3pth are normally equipped with secondary linkages which are mounted further out and attach to the two lift arms usually about halfway out. They are intended to act as lateral stabilizers to prevent the 3pth from swaying side-to-side. Thus they are called sway arms.

You are also correct in saying that the upper link works better if it is chain when mowing to allow the mower to follow the ground easier.

Best of luck. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-04-14          83126

if you get a good brand ie woods or bush hog they have copensatedfor the up and down movement by making the top link braket "notched" out to allow for more movement but a chain would work as well ....

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texbaylea
Join Date: Feb 2004
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2004-04-14          83137

There seems to be some confusion about the hookup for a RFM. I run my Landpride with the lower link antisway chains run tight so it can't move side to side. The top link is hooked to a short swinging link, 6-8", at the top of the mower frame allowing the RFM to follow the ground contours. The Kubota RFM that I had previously had an elongated slot for the top link hitch pin to slide in. I believe that all RFM have some mechanism to allow that kind of motion. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-04-15          83187

The use of a chain for the upper link is to allow MUCH more movement than the standard hitch allows, even if the unit has the flexible top mount.

The extra swinging component in the standard RFM hitch only permits enough lateral roll to follow gentle undulations in the ground. A swale of only moderate proportions can cause far more lateral motion than that type of design can handlke, at the point either the rear wheels of the tractor get lifted or the upper link or hitch bend. In most cases the hitch and or upper link lose that battle.

I think that style of hitching should be standard on all rear mowers, especially bush-hogs.

Why risk the damage for $3 worth of chain?

Best of luck. ....

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jonathanengr
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2004-04-15          83199

Speaking of confusion, I'm definitely confused! Let me see if I've digested this correctly. I should use my anti-sway bars to minimize lateral movement (side-to-side), but I should use a chain to attach to the lifting mechanism to the RFM to allow for significant movement (up and down). Most RFM's come with a bar that allows for such movement, but a chain is better since it allows for virtually uninhibited up and down movement. Does this sound correct? ....

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Murf
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2004-04-15          83200

100% correct.

In practice you should make the the chain forming the upper link of the 3pth sufficiently long enough to allow the mower to revolve far enough past the 'normal' position so as to allow it to follow the contours.

This comes into play when, for example, the tractor's front wheels go over the crest of a hill when cutting uphill. If the chain is not long enough the rear (and possibly all) of the mower will be lifted clear of the ground as the tractor pivots around the center of it's rear axle. This would leave an area just below the crest of the hill uncut.

The way we set them up is to put the chain to the lowest mounting point on the tractor, and make it long enough that it is only about 16-18" clear with the 3pth in the full up position.

Best of luck. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-15          83202

Getting back to the original post; $2,000 seem REALLY high for a mid pto. John Deere charges about 1/3 that cost. Are you sure the salesman quoted you a correct price? Perhaps I am not up on Kubota option pricing and hopefully Art can shed some factual light on this.

I prefer the MMM for its better floation, more compact size (especially in tight spaces and the garage/storage building, and a bit better cut. Constantly turning around to look behind you is also another minus in my opinion. The MMM can also be used in conjuction with vaccum systems such as the Cyclone Rake and other similar attachments for Spring and Fall clean up.

All boils down to person preference. One is not necessarily better than the other but just figured I would throw in my 2 cents worth. Best of luck with your decision! ....

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jonathanengr
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2004-04-15          83228

Could anyone tell me why I should/should not buy a 72" RFM from Tractor Supply Company? The cost is $1100 versus $1700 for a bush hog unit from my dealer. To maintain just my own yard, do I really need a "name brand"? ....

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grinder
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2004-04-17          83388

IMO you will get what you pay for.
Look at some old ones and see how
they hold up. ....

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hockeyhead
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2004-04-26          84436

I just bought a KK 72" RFM, and a 60" KK tiller at TSC this pass Sunday. I can't think of a reason should pay $1700 for a brush hog RFM. unless you need that paint job. My neighbor has used one for 4 seasons with no problems and his teenage boy drags that cutter around that 7 acres like speedracer. Knowing my neighor for a few years now, my guess is that thing has seen minimal mantenence. I have had a KK rotary to cut with for 1 year now and it did great clearing and maintaining the my rough area , the rear half of my place and OK on the lawn, but not even close to the cub cadet which we use in front of the house and to trim with. Actually I went to get a tiller when I left the house last Sunday morning but that RFM just kind of jumped into my trailer. ....

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lawnmowerman
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-04-27          84528

I have used all types of mowers and would rule out a rear finishing mower because of the added length of machine and i know from experience that my neck gets sore looking behind you all the time it just awkward to use. Its best to have a front or mid mount mower every thing is in front of you, the same direction that you are going. This is from my 20 years experience of of owning a lawn maintenance business. ....

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Billy
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2004-04-27          84532

Once you get used to a RFM there's no more sore neck. After I make the first round with the RFM, I use my front tires as my guide. ....

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jonathanengr
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2004-04-28          84566

I really don't think the "looking back" aspect will bother me at all since I'll be using this on my own property. As time goes by, I'll learn how to go to overlap and such, and the little looking back I'll have to do won't be a problem.

However, if I did this for 20 years and made my living doing exactly that, I think I probably would look for a FMM or MMM. Thanks! ....

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Murf
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2004-04-28          84568

For what my 2 cents is worth (1.3 cents US) I have to agree with Billy, unless you have some real obstacles to manuever around there is no reason at all to look back very often.

It doesn't take very long to get the hang of lining up the center of the hood, the FEL arm or a front tire or something as a guide to get just the right track to overlap the last pass just enough to cut clean without wasting time. We do MANY acres of rough cutting with bush-hogs and flail (Mott) mowers and the boys rarely have to look back other than to back up.

It's sort of like towing a trailer, once you get the hang of where it is and how it tracks behind you nothing more than the odd glance to make sure it's still there is required.

Best of luck. ....

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jonathanengr
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2004-06-03          87625

Just to update everyone, I bought the 3430 HSTC tractor about a month ago, and I'm in love! I did buy the Woods RDTH72 finish mower, and it's the best move I've ever made regarding mowing.

Before deciding on the MMM or RFM, I spoke to a landscaper friend of mine who has two tractors, both with MMM's (one is a HUGE John Deere--I had no idea they made MMM's for tractors that big!). He told me of difficulty getting around obstacles with a MMM--that basically if you can't go under something you can't mow around it. This isn't as big of a problem for him since he has someone trimming right behind him, but for me I want the option to mow under low-hanging branches, etc., where possible (I have several!). Plus--this thing is sooooo easy to remove and reinstall--even out in a field on uneven ground (but some of this could be due, too, to the great 3-pt system on the Kubota).

The RFM has been incredible thus-far. I was truly afraid of the cut it would give--I imagined a so-so but fast cut, and boy was I very, very wrong. It gives the prettiest cut I've ever seen--even better than my neighbor's commercial 50-inch JD garden tractor. And it does do it SO quickly. Last Saturday my neighbor was having family in, and he couldn't mow his front field with his JD due to a heavy dew that morning. It just kept clumping and bogging the mower down. He called me, I sped over there and mowed it with no problem. We're talking 8" tall grass soaking wet with dew up and down a hill with *no* bogging down. Can ANYTHING bog this tractor down???? One thing I'll definitely say--the rear discharge is the way to go, too. The chains thatch the grass, so even the thickest, wettest grass doesn't clump as it would with a side discharge.

MMM's definitely have their place, and I can see lots of advantages to them over a RFM. But in my opinion, RFM's are much more versatile than MMM's. I can mow over my ditches and drop-offs by "hovering" the mower, I can back under small trees and bushes, I can easily remove the mower (belly mowers are much harder to remove, and it's necessary to do so if you plan on FEL work, grading on rough terain, etc), and so-on. As for looking back while mowing, I did that the first two times I mowed, but now I "know" where the mower is and never look back unless I'm backing up to get close to something, etc.

Lastly, I've not had a problem yet with the grass being "mashed" down by my tires only to stand up later--something one person posted would happen. Maybe the RFM has a good uplifting air current(?), but thus-far it hasn't happened despite mowing in very wet grass with a 4000+pound tractor (3430 HSTC Cab tractor with fluid-filled R-4 tires). Also, I've not had any "tearing" of my lawn even though I constantly leave the tractor in 4wd (but I NEVER mow when the actual soil is wet--I'm sure it'd tear the ground then).

Anyway, I wanted to post my experience on here just in case anyone is thinking of buying a RFM. I actually came close to not buying it from fear of how it would do, and that would've been a huge mistake! As a matter-of-fact, my neighbor, who owns a sub-compact 1980's Kubota (and the JD 50" garden tractor) went out and bought a RFM (60" Bush Hog) after I mowed his grass for him that morning. ....

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53jubilee
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2004-07-23          91756

johnathan..thanks for the insightful update. I've been back and forth on MMM vs 3ph RM (and side or rear dischg). You helped my decision to go RM. Now to decide Woods, Landpride or Sitrex. All have hi lift blades. LandPride appears to have a poor paint job...rust on new bodies...but dealer says units have held up "best" in his experience. I'll also have FEL and brush hoggin to do too so a MMM might be in the way. ....

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charlieK
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2004-07-25          91861

hope you're happy w/wooda mower...to update you on the mmm and the mid pto....$300.00 will get you a mid pto kit from any kubota dealer for your 3430 and the factory 72" mmm runs about $2800.00. l.o.l. CharlieK ....

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5picker
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2004-07-26          91911

jubilee,
I have a Woods RD84 RFM and I sing the same high praises as jonathan on this piece of equipment. My dealer had Land Pride sitting on the lot but I couldn't get past the rust and already flat tires to even begin to think of buying one of those. Besides, I already have a Woods rotary cutter and knew what a fine piece of equipment that has been.

I've not experienced the problem some suggested with the tractor tires mashing down the grass and the mower not being able to lift it for cut. It REALLY does a nice job.

I would also suggest the front scalper roller and solid tires. While I've not seen the scalper roller hit very often, I know it's there just in case. Even at 84" the deck follows the contour of the terrain very nicely.

My dealer suggested the solid tires and I'm glad I listened. They don't give the mower dack quite the ride as a pneumatic tire but after watching how those tires have to spin around at times when turning, I believe he was right when he said you MAY roll one off. My largest mowing job (about 10 acres) is mostly in a large field I'm grooming to become yard area and it is still pretty rough The solids have not given me a problem.

If you do go with pneumatics, be sure they have tubes or put tubes in them. You can then get away from having to fill them with so much air to keep them from rolling off that you end up with what is basically a solid tire anyway.

Tim ....

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53jubilee
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5 Catskill, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2004-07-28          92104

Thanks Tim...all good suggestions. Solid tires sound like way to go. Currently borrowing a AGCO 2020 48" Elect deck...has anti scalp front and underdeck...comes in handy for me. (Well built machine IMHumbleO). My Cub bit the dust...oil leak between upper/lower eng assembly...needs new gasket I suppose. Good excuse to wife to upgrade ;-) ....

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