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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Antique Tractor -- Ford 9N 2N 8N Forum

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 03-15-2008, 01:38 Post: 152166
dootsy



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I want to put a hydraulic top link and side link to better use my 3 point hitch when it has my scoop, bucket, blade and crane on it. I was ready to buy a "Live Thang" from Zane Sherman but a mechanic buddy of mine suggested that a front mounted direct power pump would be better than the side mounted belt driven pump that is used by the Live thang. The reason behind this thinking is that the side mounted unit would put more pressure on the front engine bearing which could lead to future problems. I like the Live Thang because it is easy to install and almost all the needed parts are included. I would really appreciate your input to help me with my decision on this. Thanks






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 03-15-2008, 02:15 Post: 152167
candoarms



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Dootsy,

The old Fords were very lacking in the area of hydraulics when they were being pushed off of the assembly lines. The idea was to replace the horse and harnesses...and the old Ford 8N did a good job of that.

Hydraulic systems on the 8Ns came an after-thought. And your buddy is correct. It is much better to install the pump directly off of the front shaft, rather than attempt to mount one off to the side. This is because the belt tension has to be extremely high in order to spin the pump. To keep the belt from slipping when driving the pump, you'd have to stretch the belt extremely tight. This high belt tension places a very heavy side-load on the bearings, which is something those bearings were not designed to withstand.

You may be able to get around this problem by using cogged pulleys and matching cogged belts. (These aren't cheap.) Cogged belts and pulleys are designed for applications such as drag racing, when engine RPMs increase very rapidly. (blower drives) However, by using these belts, it is not necessary to tighten them nearly as much as we do a regular V belt. These cogged pulleys and belts will greatly reduce the side pressure on the bearings, when using a pump mounted off to the side.


Joel






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 03-15-2008, 07:12 Post: 152168
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Forgive me if I'm overlooking the obvious, I'm not a Ford guy. But is a PTO pump out of the question?

//greg//






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 03-15-2008, 09:21 Post: 152169
candoarms



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Greg_g,

The old Fords didn't originally come with PTO pumps. The 8N (introduced in 1947 ????) was an upgraded tractor, in that it came with a simple draft control system, but that's the biggest improvement Ford had made to the line in several years.

A PTO pump could be added to the machine, by mounting it off of the front end of the engine's crankshaft......usually through a hole cut out in the lower portion of the tractor's grill.

As I understand things, the "Zane Thang" is meant to be used on the older 9Ns and 2Ns, which didn't have draft control. This device is designed as an upgrade to provide draft control to the older machines.

It seems to me that Dootsy could use this system on his tractor, but if he truly has an 8N it should already be equipped with draft control.

Joel






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 03-15-2008, 09:45 Post: 152170
greg_g



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I don't believe you understood. Far as I can tell, this has nothing to do with draft control - or even with Ford for that matter. The original question concerned power options for a hydraulic top and side link(s), presumably for a home-made top-n-tilt. I simply asked about the possibility of using PTO pump - in this case a rear PTO pump - driven by the PTO spline. They're used quite often to power removable backhoes. A rear pump takes front modifications, belts, and bearing wear out of the equation. And makes for a lot less vulnerable plumbing than would an engine-driven pump up front.

//greg//






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 03-15-2008, 14:24 Post: 152176
dootsy



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Just to clarify, I am not in need of a Zane Thang as my 8n does have draft control. I was asking about Zane's Live Thang which gives live hydraulics to an 8n. The cogged pulleys and belts sound like a good solution to avoiding damage to the engine bearings. Also the PTO pump is a new option to me. Any further help would be greatly appreciated.






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 03-15-2008, 14:49 Post: 152177
candoarms



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Dootsy,

A PTO pump can be fitted directly to your tractor's rear PTO shaft.

A bracket must be installed on the pump to prevent it from spinning with the PTO shaft. This is a simple device consisting of a length of angle iron mounted to the pump, and a chain mounted to the angle iron and then fastened to the tractor's frame.

Your only problem is going to be finding a place to mount a tank for which to hold your hydraulic fluid. In most cases, this tank is integrated into the implement, such as a backhoe, or log splitter. In your case, you'll have to find a place to mount the hydraulic fluid reservoir directly to the tractor.

The downside to this setup is that you'll have to remove the hydraulic pump when using the PTO shaft to power a mower, or any other PTO driven implement.

A PTO pump designed for your tractor is available from many sources. Prince pumps are the most common, but they are made by many other companies as well.

Please click on the link below.

Joel








Link:   SURPLUS CENTER PRINCE PTO PUMP 

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 03-15-2008, 15:36 Post: 152179
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Couple of points. Some PTO pumps are held in placed with right/left chains to keep them from rotating. It makes them easily removeable too. Some permanent mounts types are configured with a PTO pass through. You just need an extension on the tractor stub so that it will drive the pump and still have enough sticking out to drive a PTO shaft.

Don't know enough about the 8N to provide specifics, but these pumps will run on UTF also. That means you could technically plumb them in and out of the differential housing. Wouldn't need a tank that way.

//greg//






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 03-15-2008, 17:29 Post: 152181
earthwrks

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 8n hydraulics

Joel, I know what you meant but just for clarity:

"A PTO pump could be added to the machine, by mounting it off of the front end of the engine's crankshaft......usually through a hole cut out in the lower portion of the tractor's grill."

Not quite the case--a genuine PTO pump isn't made to withstand the higher engine RPMs. However, there are 2000 RPM PTO-type pumps. BUT, why spend the money over-building that when if you had a 7-10 GPM surplus pump lieing around you could with some rubber-isolated couplers and shafting go out the front. If you had to.

But forget all that. Keeping in mind I haven't had my 9N for about 6 years but...if memory serves, the 9N/2N/8N were already outfitted from the factory with pipe plugs in the bottom of the pump pan area ready to be tapped into. I forget the volume, likely very low, but it's there perfect for his purposes. There are factory-issued pictures on the net showing how to do it too. Dealers have the same info too.

But I'm jis' sayin'






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Antique Tractor -- Ford 9N 2N 8N Forum

Thread 152166 Filter by Poster:
candoarms 3 | dootsy 2 | earthwrks 1 | greg_g 3 |




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