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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Casey
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1999-05-19          4071

I have a compact diesel and am in need of more power.I also find that the diesel fumes tend to make me nauseous when the wind blows them in my face for anylength of time. Wearing a respirator is not particularlypleasant when when the mercury hits 120 for a week or so. I have thought about getting a larger tractor and converting itto propane power. The only conversion kits I have seen arefor gas powered engines which use a carburetor.Questions:Were there any 20-25 hp tractors built with gas enginesand 4wd (I haven't seen any, at least not that I recognized).Is anyone aware of whether a diesel could be converted topropane? (I assume it could be done, but might require usinga carb instead of direct injection.)I know a lot warehouse fork lifts use propane power, but don't know if any have the basic engines that allow aninterchange of parts to normal tractors. What is the desired compression ratio for a propane engine(I assume it is higher than for gasoline engine.) Has anyone tried this type of conversion?(I am aware that conversion to propane will normally lead to aloss of power of 7-10 hp or slightly more.)

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Lee S.
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1999-05-19          4077

Ain't no way in hell fool!!! Go to your local high school and take a basic auto shop class. Maybe you can learn the difference between gasoline and diesel engines. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-05-20          4081

It would be difficult to go from diesel to gas. You would need sparkignition, a different carburation system, lowered compression, and a differentcam since the valve duration is so different. Most propane engines start as gasoline, not diesel. What I did on my small diesel was to extend the exhaust pipe about another 4 feet up into the air using thin-walled steel tubing....OK, OK, I'll confessthat it was actually the long chrome plated tube off of my wife's old vacuumcleaner. I'll bet you already own one! Just the right size and weight. I paidguy at the muffler shop ten bucks to make me an adapter piece which fits ontothe stock muffler and them the extender pipe slides over it. Hose clamps providesufficient rigidity. Now my exhaust gets thrown far above my head and I don'thave to smell it anymore. The stock unit was right at eye level.What a truly dumb design that was! .............Roger L. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Norman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4 Flemington NJ
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1999-05-20          4090

Lee S. GROW UP! There is absolutely no reason for that kind of attitude. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-05-20          4093

Couldn't have said it better myself Norman. Seems to me LEE should be the onevisiting his local high school,& take the "basic 7th grade" English class. Then, then sign up for the Army to learn a little respect & a few manners..OK LEE, Lets lets show all the boys & girls how to be grown-ups...Follow along.Casey,You didn't mention the make or model of your compact, nor did you mention how many hours have been spun on the meter. If your compact has quite a few hours on the meter,and you continue to see smokeafter initial start-up, you may consider having a tune-up. Secondly, try premium Diesel if it is available in your area.Hopefully you haven't been using the "cheap" fuel, that is available at certain stations.This cheap fuel will cost you more in the long run, and IMHO tends to smoke/smell more. Even if a PROP Conversion kit for a diesel existed, I could not imagine spending the money for what it would probably cost. Roger mentioned an inexpensive,do it yourself idea for very little $.Its worth a try.. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Casey
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1999-05-20          4103

Thanks for the responses. My current tractor is a Yanmar 155Dwith the side exhaust. It has about 800 hours and produces almostno visible smoke when warmed up. My place is in a canyon which gets swirling winds, so I find that even with tractors with extended exhaust pipes, I end up breathing a lot of diesel fumes.Every since I was a little kid and used to get very car sick whenfollowing diesel trucks, diesel fumes and I have not gotten along very well. Also, the recent classification by the EPA of the particulatesof diesel smoke as a known carcinogen do nothing to increase my desireto inhale diesel smoke. This 15hp Yanmar is under powered for my needs and I need to upgrade.As a friend and I buried his full size Farmall tractor up to the rearaxle when trying to snake logs out of his wood lot in damp conditions,I would prefer a 4wd machine but want something relatively compact.Thus my request for any information on used gas powered 4wd tractorsin the mid 20hp range. I have always liked propane power, so I wouldconsider converting the gas engine, although I assume that it would probably not be cost effective to do so. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Casey
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1999-05-20          4104

I will simply assume that Lee was having a bad hair day rather thanconcluding that he was following the tradition of closing his mindbefore finding out the facts. I do have a smattering of knowledge regardingthe differences between conventional gasoline engines (i.e. modified Ottocycle engines utilizing spark ignition with throttle plate restriction ofair intake for varying power) and conventional Diesel engines (i.e. modifiedDiezel cycle engines utilizing direct fuel injection into gases heatedthrough compression for ignition and which vary the quantity of fuel injected for varying power.) Of course, as Lee undoubtely knows,the two types of engines share the isentropic compression, isentropicexpansion, and isochoric liberation of heat cycles and thus are differentiated by whether combustion cycle is a constant volume or a constant pressure process.While #2 diesel is the popular choice forfuel for diesel engines, any fuel which could be injected and which willignite at the temperatures generated during the compression stroke could theoretically be used. Granted, getting proper ignition from injecting a low energy density gas such as propane would be much more difficult than utilizing a high density fuel such as #2 diesel. My thought was that given the narrow range of flammability of Propane, that through introducing some Propane into the intake air through use of a propane carburetor, that one could then inject directly into the cylinder the remainder of the fuel requiredto attain the required fuel air mix for combustion. Of course, I considered it unlikely that anyone had gone to this much trouble, but thought I would throw it out - perhaps if the Propane was keptliquid until it was sprayed into the combustion chamber, enough couldbe introduced in a short enough time to make it actually work.Unfortunately, in truncating my comment, it probably did appear that I didn't have a clue...Having helped develop the teaching materials for a course on auto mechanicsfor a community college, I can say that at least that course did not getinto sufficient detail about diesel engines to shed much light on whetherPropane fuel could be adapted for use in a diesel. Of more help wouldbe an engineering course on thermodynamics where they usuallycontrast the Otto and Diesel cycles and calculate the variousefficiencies and entropy vs pressure relationships of the various cycles.Unfortunately, I took my thermodynamics class in the physics departmentrather than engineering, so I didn't get much of that. So, maybe Lee could help - I always had trouble with calculating those entropy relationships for isochoric vs constant pressure heat transfer;perhaps Lee S. could give me a short tutorial to help me out on this... ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Pete Johnson
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1999-05-20          4105

An electric tractor wouldn't stink, but also may not suit your needs. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Pete Johnson
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1999-05-20          4106

Lost the website somehowHere it is http://home.golden.net/~etc/ ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Barry
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1999-05-20          4114

Hey Casey what an educational reply ....anyway I'll stick with what you said. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Peter
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1999-05-20          4118

Lee, LEE! Get your foot out of your mouth and your head out of wherever it is (if there is enough room for it and your foot in that same dark space)and give poor Casey some help. How can he learn otherwise? ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Paul
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1999-05-21          4135

Casey- Steiner makes gasoline powered 4WD "estate" tractors which might be too light for your needs, and Terramite makes great heavy duty compacts with a variety of gasoline engines. Anybody seen anything like this for sale to help out our well -educated friend? Good luck on the project- its a lot more intense an effort than anything I could ever attempt.Paul ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-05-21          4142

Casey,I just HAD to copy the rest of your message, appearantly cut off by the MAX number of allowable charactors. And now.... the rest of the story:) Having helped develop the teaching materials for a course on auto mechanicsfor a community college, I can say that at least that course did not getinto sufficient detail about diesel engines to shed much light on whetherPropane fuel could be adapted for use in a diesel. Of more help wouldbe an engineering course on thermodynamics where they usuallycontrast the Otto and Diesel cycles and calculate the variousefficiencies and entropy vs pressure relationships of the various cycles.Unfortunately, I took my thermodynamics class in the physics departmentrather than engineering, so I didn't get much of that. So, maybe Lee could help - I always had trouble with calculating those entropy relationships for isochoric vs constant pressure heat transfer;perhaps Lee S. could give me a short tutorial to help me out on this... ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-05-21          4143

Here's the website Paul mentioned for the Steiner unit. http://www.steinerturf.com/products.htm ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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David
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1999-05-21          4152

Two options to look into. I have a diesel generator (Perkins engine) and a salesman recently tried to sell me a propane kit specifically for this engine.The kit allowed propane to be mixed in with the air intake and reducing the volume of diesel fuel introduced. Still needed to start on diesel but may help you outClaimed to be able to run on over 90% propane when warmed up. Was being sold for Y2k as propane has better long term storage. I didn't bite and he didn't leave the brochure. He was a Kohler dealer but I'm not sure if had any connection. Other option would be to try "Cleaner" fuel. Basic concept of a diesel as you have already pointed out is sound for any fuel which ignites with compression. I knew an old moonshiner who ran his tractor off a combination of K1 (much cleaner than diesel #2)and his high test distillate. He was careful to lubricate the top end with Mystery Marvil Oil (or something like that, came in a Red Can)I'd rather not have any more contact with any sales reps. But if you are interested and can't find info E-mail me and I'll try. If you try something else please let usknow how it works out.David ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Fred
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1999-05-21          4164

How about using a different fuel. I have read about bio-diesel, it is supposed to smell like french fries when used. In the 60's the army had diesel trucks that could run on almost any fuel including vegetable oil or peanut oil. You might have to change things like the pump and filter, but it may be easier than propane. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Lee S
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1999-05-21          4171

Sorry guys, especially Casey. I want to apologize for my VERY stupid post on 5/19. I've been a forklift mechanic for 27 years and sometimes forget most people don't have the engine experiance that I do. Again, every one, PLEASE accept my VERY HUMBLE APOLOGY and trust that a post like that will never cross my keyboard again. Sincerly Lee S. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Alan
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1999-05-23          4227

Casey. That's exactly what I was gonna say but you beat me to it. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-05-23          4233

Good on you, Lee. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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ricko1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2 ca
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2010-03-10          169076

anyone here heard of the internet? apparently there is more than one way to convert a diesel to run on propane or natural gas here is one way from one company:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/09/retrofitting_di.html ....


Link:   propane conversion for compact/small tractor

 
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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2010-03-10          169077

But there's only one way to correctly add a hyperlink Rick. See below. And don't know if you noticed it or not, but responded to an eleven year old thread with a six and a half year old article.

//greg// ....


Link:   corrected propane conversion link

 
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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2010-03-10          169100

Or, stick with what you have. The new sulphur-free fuel is much easier on the lungs than the old diesel (which is why you're paying so much more for it). And it's a simple matter to take the exhaust away. If the pipe is vertical and you have overhead room, add an extension upward. Otherwise, rotate it 90 degrees forward (4 bolts) and remove the end piece. Then route the exhaust as far from you as feasible, such as forward and down.

As for wanting 4WD in a stronger model, there are plenty around. ....

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propane conversion for compact small tractor

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2010-03-11          169116

Folks, as Greg already pointed out.

This thread has been dormant for ELEVEN YEARS now.

Besides which, none of those previous posters have been active here in many years now.



Best of luck. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2010-03-11          169119

I know this is an old thread, but just my experience might save someone a bit of greif. I used to have an all terrain forklit with a Chrysler gasoline powered industrual slant six. Carburetor was shot, overhaul it OK. Nope there weren't any parts on the planet or even a replacement carb that wasn't worn out too. A friend donated me an LP conversion, that didn't work in cold weather, so save that effort. Finally a local guy who works on old Fords recoginized the internal organs of my carb as being identical to a fifty something ford pickup six cylinder carb., she came back to life. ....

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