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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

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 02-13-2001, 07:44 Post: 24175
Bob Cambray



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 Diesel Fuel

A little confused about the #1 or #2 diesel fuel. Which do you purchase when you go to a gas station. What is recommended?.As far as the red dye in the #2 I purchased that once for use in my kerosene heater, after about 2 weeks the heater would not start-had to replace wick. Was all dried up and red, suspect caused by dye. What is this doing inside injector pump.I know I have multiple questions,any help appreciatedThanks Bob C






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 02-13-2001, 08:08 Post: 24176
Bird Senter

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 Diesel Fuel

Bob, I don't really KNOW anything about that red dye, but I sure have heard lots of stories. One guy in the neighborhood told me about his brand new John Deere quitting on him twice and had to have the dealer come get it. Claimed the only problem was that the red dye was clogging his fuel filter. My fuel distributor (where I buy my diesel in a 55 gallon barrel) says there's no problem with the red dye so long as you use it while it's fresh, but that he wouldn't keep it more than a month or so. At any rate, I just don't use it.






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 02-13-2001, 08:11 Post: 24178
Norm



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 Diesel Fuel

#1 is kerosene, #2 is diesel/fuel oil. I wouldn't expect a kerosene heater to run on #2. As far as the dye is concerned, it isn't going to affect the injector pump, but it just might mess up a wick. Diesel engines can run on both, #2 provides more HP, #1 gels at a much lower temp, therefore the trade-off for winter use. Additives can lower the gel temp of #2 without the loss of HP when mixing with (or using straight) #1. Hope this helps.






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 02-13-2001, 09:02 Post: 24179
Bob Cambray



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 Diesel Fuel

Whats the purpose of the red dye and how can you be sure not to get it






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 02-13-2001, 11:35 Post: 24185
Frank R Taylor



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 Diesel Fuel

I'm not sure they use the red dye in Texas where I live. The diesel we use at the farm and the stuff I buy at the filling station for my truck doesn't seem to have it added. When I worked in Wyoming they added it to all fuel that was tax exempt, ie. all fuel that was for ag use or industrial (oil rigs etc.). Up there if the cops stopped you, they could dip your tank and could physically see if you were using the cheaper tax exempt fuel in your private vehicle. Other places might do it differently but basically it's an easy means to see if you are cheating the Treasury.






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 02-13-2001, 13:14 Post: 24188
Bird Senter

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 Diesel Fuel

Bob, Frank just told you the purpose of the red dye. It's just to make sure you don't use any of it in a highway vehicle. I think all the distributors in my area of Texas have it, and I guess anyone can buy it. But I also found out that I can buy the regular #2 diesel, without the dye, and without paying the road tax. Of course, there was a bunch of paperwork to fill out for the distributor to keep on file saying that none of this diesel will be used on the road, none will be resold, that I won't buy more than 10,000 gal./year, etc., etc. And I suspect it would be expensive if you got caught violating any of that.






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 02-13-2001, 13:20 Post: 24189
Tony



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 Diesel Fuel

According to my bulk plant, there is no difference in the fuel. The red dye indicates tax exempt. I use it in all off road apps. Be careful of your storage method. I use a 30 gallon drum and have no problems. It takes me several months to use that much.






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 02-13-2001, 21:51 Post: 24217
Jeff B



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 Diesel Fuel

I've been doing a little research into fuels lately. Although people do burn kerosene in place of #1 diesel, they're not the same fuels (i.e. the same stew of hydrocarbon compounds). When crude oil is fractionated, the various fuels consisting of varying mixes of hydrocarbon compounds (paraffins, naphthenes, and aromatics) are separated based on ranges of condensation temperatures. Straight run raw gasoline condenses out in the range of 100-300 deg F. Raw kerosene condenses out in the range of 430-500F. The light gas oils or distillates condense out in the range of 490-600F, etc. The raw kerosene receives further treatment and is sold as finished kerosene (also called lamp oil), which is governed by ASTM standard D187. JP-1 jet fuel is very similar to kerosene but has a lower freeze point. The light gas oils are processed into the various grades of fuel oils (heating oil and diesel fuel) and other jet fuels. The specification for heating oils (#1, #2, and #4) is governed by ASTM standard D287. The specification for diesel fuels (#1D, #2D, and #4D) is governed by ASTM standard D613. Cetane ratings are specified for diesel fuels but not for heating oils. The other differences between heating oils and diesel fuel oils include restrictions on sulfur and ash contents. Some companies market, say their #2 fuel oil, as either #2 heating oil or #2D diesel fuel (meaning that their fuel meets both ASTM standards). Others market their heating oils and diesel fuel oils separately. The primary differences between #1D and #2D diesel fuels are their cloud points (#1:-25F vs #2:15 to 20F), their flash points (#1:100F vs #2:125F), their viscosities (#1:1.3-2.4cSt vs #2:1.9-4.1cSt), and their energy content per gallon (higher for #2). Both fuels have the same minimum cetane number (40). The cloud point is the temperature at which paraffin crystals begin to precipitate out of the fuel (and clog up your fuel filter). Lower flash point means the fuel will begin burning at lower temperature (helpful during cold weather). Lower viscosity is also helpful during cold weather because the injectors are better able to create the proper spray pattern in the combustion chamber. The cetane number is a measure of a diesel fuel's antiknock characteristics (similar to the octane number for gasoline). For these reasons, #1D diesel fuel is recommended during cold weather. New Holland also recommends #1D fuel for higher altitudes. In my area (near Albuquerque), the gas stations and truck stops sell only #2D because it never gets bitterly cold here. Still, an additive is often used in the winter time to lower the cloud point of the #2D fuel by about 40 deg F. Premium diesel fuel is also sold here; its either #2D with an additive already mixed in, or a blend of #1D and #2D. In some areas of the country such fuels are also called a "Winter Blend". Hope this helps. - Jeff






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 02-14-2001, 06:20 Post: 24222
TomG

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 Diesel Fuel

Jeff: I think you've added to your research since a few months back. Thanks. I find this level of detail interesting and useful. I guess I'm lucky, because I have sources of both off-road #1 and #2 nearby. I switched over to #1 for the winter. I do notice a slight decrease in power, but I also notice somewhat easier starting in the cold. It's a good trade-off, since I'm more often short on traction rather than power during the winter. The dye here is blue.






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 02-16-2001, 17:54 Post: 24287
Jerry Faker



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 Diesel Fuel

Bob C
Here in WA State all diesel you buy in a station for on road use is died a light blue, they call it clear(charged road tax). All diesel for off road ie. farm, furnace etc. is died red(no road tax). So you see both have die in them so I can't figure why the red die would be harmful and the blue not. Also I've found that my tractor seems to smoke a little more with the clear than it does with the red. The clear(blue) for on road use in most places or fuel companies is a higher sulfer than the red. Maybe that's why.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

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Bird Senter 2 | Bob Cambray 2 | Dave Wells 1 | Frank 1 | Frank R Taylor 1 | Jeff B 3 | Jerry Faker 1 | Norm 1 | Rod 1 | Roger L. 1 | TomG 1 | Tony 1 |




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