Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale: Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives  -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum and Review Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale: Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum

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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

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 11-09-2009, 09:17 Post: 166797
DRankin



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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

I bought a Kubota T-1880 riding mower a couple years ago to keep the weeds in check on my "upper acre", so as you might imagine it doesn't see a lot of regular use.

When I fired it up last spring it smoked an' choked and wouldn't take a load. OK.... old gas... gummy carb.....

Found some Techron additive in the garage, that should clean it up. The label said a full bottle will treat "up to" 16 gallons.

Being in a big fat hurry as usual, I dumped the bottle into the 4 gallon tank on the mower. It worked great. Within minutes that Kohler engine was purring and out terrorizing knee-high weeds.

Fast forward to October.

I started noticing gassy, pungent, solvent smell when the engine was running. Then I found a puddle of gas under the engine. When I removed the the fuel tank cap I found black goo dripping off of it.

The goo turned out to be what was left of the rubber gasket inside the cap. The gas dripping from the engine was coming from what was left of the fuel pump.

The Techron had dissolved or nearly dissolved all the "soft" components in the fuel system. Hoses, gaskets and vacuum lines were either gone or on the way out.

Fortunately, the small engine shop down the road had a replacement fuel pump and I had enough spare hose to replace everything that got eaten.

I still have to find a new gasket for the fuel cap.

Hey ART, are those gaskets sold separately, or must I order a new cap assembly?


Yes, I drained and replaced what little fuel remained in the tank.

The engine now takes a bit longer to start than it used to but runs fine once it gets going.

Be careful with this stuff!









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 11-09-2009, 10:19 Post: 166798
auerbach



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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Why don't you communicate this experience to Techron. They know you have the small-claims-court option, so might compensate you. Meanwhile, thanks for reminding me to run my summer-use-only equipment dry.






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 11-09-2009, 10:44 Post: 166799
Murf

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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

The 'good stuff' in Techron is polyether amines, which in higher concentrations is 'bad stuff' to rubber, vinyl and a few other man-made products.

IMHO opinion, you need to tear down the 'hard parts' of the fuel system now, the carb and tank in particular.

All that melted stuff is still floating around in suspension and will settle and congeal once the Techron is gone. That isn't something you want to happen.

BTW, we've had very good luck with Sea Foam additive for stuff like that. It's also really good at getting carbon deposits off valves. One of the girls in the office had so much carbon in the engine of her Land Rover truck one of the cylinders was basically coasting, the exhaust valve was stuck partly open, the results of running regular in an engine designed for premium fuel. The mechanic, a Rover expert, told her it needed a valve job, big PITA on that particular V8. Two cans of Sea Foam in the parking lot and a cloud of smoke big enough to cause a response from our local Fire Dept. later, no problem.

Watch out for Ethanol blend fuels too, they have about a 2 month shelf life because of it.

Best of luck.






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 11-09-2009, 13:45 Post: 166803
DRankin



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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Don't get me started on ethanol blend fuel.

Around here it is the only fuel available.

Near as I can tell, my gas mileage is down about 20 percent since it became the universal fuel.

If I could find a gas station selling unadulterated fuel I would buy all my gas there and happily pay more for it.






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 11-09-2009, 13:56 Post: 166804
DennisCTB

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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Hey Guys,

Is there anything in "Power Service" additive for diesel fuel that could be a problem if you added too much?

I used to measure it, but after seeing some posts that I was alone in that practice, I just pour a generous dose of PS in each can before getting the filled.

Dennis






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 11-09-2009, 15:01 Post: 166806
Murf

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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Mark, non-Ethanol blend fuels are still available in most areas, they just don't advertise it. Usually the Premium fuel is without any Ethanol still.

They do this because a lot of the high end cars, especially European makes (read the big $$$ BMW's, M-B's, Porsche's, Land Rovers, etc.) weren't able to handle Ethanol until very recently. This is most of the market for Premium gasoline.

Besides, the reg's all say "up to" X % Ethanol, and that is based on total sales, not a particular gallon. Also, since there is only 2 grades of fuel nowadays, Premium is kept unadulterated, and the little bit that gets blended doesn't matter.

Dennis, additives for gasoline and diesel are very different creatures.

Most diesel supplements are either, almost straight kerosene or it's chemical equivalent "Stoddard Solvent", or Alcohol in one form or another. The other main ingredients are Naphta, Mineral Spirits or Acetone.

If you read the MSDS sheets for most of these products they say pretty much the same thing, the one for PS911 says it contains "70-80% hydroxy compounds", which is alcohol. The rest is made up of solvents, listed merely as 'hydrocarbons'.

Best of luck.






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 11-16-2009, 20:04 Post: 166869
DRankin



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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

As suggested, I sent the info to Chevron. Here is Chevrons reply:

Thank you for the inquiry. It has been forwarded to us here at Chevron Fuels Technical Services.
Chevron takes care that our products are safe, appropriate for the uses intended, and labeled correctly. Techron Concentrate has been tested thoroughly, both in our laboratories and on the road. We have done extensive “harm-testing” on Techron. This included compatibility testing with engine interior parts, some of which are made of elastomers. Testing was done on both old and new vehicles and at concentrations much higher than would be the actual experience. Tens of thousands of bottles of the additive have been used with no problem.

We do not believe that the additive could cause the type of damage you described.
Sincerely,
Chevron Fuels Technical Services






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 11-16-2009, 20:11 Post: 166870
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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

My reply to Chevron:

Dear anonymous person,

Ok........ you don't believe it. That's nice. I wish I had that luxury.

Is there no scientific curiosity there? Is this absolutely settled science?

Did you expose all those materials to high concentrations of Techron for 6 or 7 months in a closed system? Did you factor in extreme high desert summer temperatures? Or 9000 foot density altitudes that might increase out-gassing of volatile components? Did you test it in a clear plastic fuel tank exposed to direct solar radiation, a mile above sea level?

These are just some of the conditions relating to this incident. Let's really complicate the matter and introduce ethanol to all the above.

If I were in your place I might ask if there is any of the melted material saved for testing.

Listen, I'm not out to get some sort of settlement or legal bullshit. I screwed up and put too much Techron in the tank. I fixed the problem and there appears to be no permanent damage. I just think there might be a problem with Techron under unusual conditions and you should look into it.

I still don't know if under all the conditions outlined above that even a normal dose is safe in my riding mower.

Bottom line: there were two products in that fuel tank: Chevron fuel and Chevron additive.

Which should I stop using in this application?

Mark






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 11-16-2009, 21:36 Post: 166871
Murf

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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Very nicely done Mark.

The only thing I would have suggested was a CC to the EPA or the Sierra Club.

If the front door is locked, check for an open window, or better yet, yell fire and see who runs out the back door.

Best of luck






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 11-17-2009, 08:30 Post: 166874
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 Gas additives/ Kubota Mower.... a cautionary tale

Thanks for posting Mark. I especially liked the line about which product you should stop using Smile






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Diesel Fuel Lubrication Engine Additives Forum

Thread 166797 Filter by Poster:
auerbach 1 | DennisCTB 2 | DRankin 5 | kthompson 1 | kwschumm 2 | Murf 3 |




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