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Futian Foton tractors

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Lenarguy
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 20 Mercer, PA
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2004-04-25          84204

I see that these tractors are being imported again, I am not sure of the name, I have saw both names used. Anyone have any information on them?
I looked at before the "lawsuit" and was impressed with their specs, however there are not many around my neck of the woods.
Has anyone looked at them recently?


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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-04-25          84303

They don't call it either a Futian or a Foton; http://ruralking.com/rko/cart.cgi?PRODUCT=030010921&SPD=Y6610948636ej5Q&AISLE=3378. This FT404's physical appearance suggests pre-lawsuit Futian. Which, if correct, may give one pause for concern about replacement parts.

//greg// ....

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Tom
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2004-06-06          87832

I would appreciate an experienced opinion. I am considering importing a Futian/Foton eurpean leapord Model 804 from China, as I cannot afford the named tractor brands. Can any one advise the short commings of these tractors, and advise any good or bad experiences with this tractor
Thanks Tom ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-06-06          87877

DOnt know any thing about them but did a google and they are clearly a rip off of New holland. Check the link and see for your self. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Lenarguy
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2004-06-07          87988

Tom,
If you are thinking of importing one you might want to check this site out Compact tractor connection. They handle them and are very good to deal with, talk to Norm. Please let us know what you find out. ....


Link:   Compact tractor connection

 
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Tom
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2004-06-08          88014

Dear Greg, can you be more explicit with you explaination about the law suit you refer to.

I am not aware of this situation, and would like to leearn more, if you ahve the time

Thanks

Tom ....

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//greg//
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2004-06-08          88024

Sure Tom,

Check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=futian+new+holland+trade+dress. Should fill you right in. That lawsuit left a lot of "in-country" Futians sort of high and dry. If you get a post-lawsuit Foton (they changed their name for subsequent American sales), it stands to reason that the parts support can only be better than that for a pre-lawsuit tractor.

//greg// ....

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Tom
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2004-06-13          88393

Dear Greg,
Thank you for your message.
Thant address, lead me to a lot of legal jargon.
From it I understand, that Foton/Fujian, copied new holland in the form of appearance, colours and lettering.
I did not see any complaint re copying of the new holland tractor itself.
If you visit www.sino-tractor.com is the 804 pictured pre lawsuit in your opinion

Thanks Tom ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-06-13          88398

Tom, it appears all the blue tractors on that page have the offending trade dress. If you order one I would suggest you at least get red or their new box nose look as shown on the FT304 on that same page.

If you are going to deal with a Chinese exporter, rather than a US based importer or retail dealer, be sure you are aware that these do not have EPA compliant engines (even the Perkins they use in some models). The most common method used to get around this is to use an engine manufactured before the EPA requirements went into effect. If Customs and or EPA decides to make an issue over a 2004 tractor with a 1997 engine, your unit could have a hard time getting home. If it is blue/black and looks like a New Holland, it very likely could get seized. It is yours when it leaves China so don't expect a refund if that happens.

I am not aware of too many importers bringing in any of the larger (over 50) HP Chinese tractors possibly because of the issues I mention here. I suspect the result will be that spare parts supplies will be very sparse here in the US.

Now with all this negativism out of the way, I will say that Foton builds a pretty nice tractor. I brought in a sample 254 last year and it was a decent machine, in fact I have ordered another sample tractor as I understand the factory has impoved on a couple of small issues we had with the prior unit. I am getting getting red and the box nose style just to be safe.

Good luck, If and when you do get your tractor, let us know how you like it!


....

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Tom
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2004-06-13          88421

Dear Chipuren
Thanks for your information. It is much appreciated. I am in Australia, and I think the new holland shape issue, may not be an issue over hear.

Thank you for the info in the engine, I will check with the EPA here in Aussie, if it is an issue. I am please to hear an opinion about the Foton built tractor and you think they are OK.

You are 100% correct Spare parts will be an issue. This is my next main concern re importing one of these tractors, as the only Chinese tractor manufacture in australia is one called "Rhino".

thanks once again for the info as it was very much appreciated

Tom ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-06-14          88521

Tom,
You may be right about the New Holland issue, whole different ballgame if not in USA! You can probably get the big Perkins or even the Chinese engine. I have seen that there is an Foton importer in Austrailia, a posted the link below. You might want to find out if they can help you with parts if you need them.
Best of luck. ....


Link:   Austrailian Foton

 
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Tom
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2004-06-16          88662

Dear Chipuern

How did you find this site. I have been searching for months on the net in Australia (and I am no slouch on the net). Anyway Thank you very much, this info is much appreciated and gives me comfort some parts will be coming to aussie. I noticed the pics are of the pre lawsuit type - I wonder how long this will last.

There pricing is a little disapointing, the 804 is priced over 2.5 times their cost (I have the USD cost from the factory).

Thanks Chipuren, this infor has been great.

PS the only engine to get is the perkins, 100% agree.

Thanks Mate

Tom ....

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Adrian
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2004-06-28          89565

Tom,

Get hold of a company called Tractor Imports http://www.tractorimports.com.au.

They are based in Brisbane, Australia. They are importing the EuroLeopard tractors. These guys are also providing warranty and parts backup.

Adrian ....

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Tom
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2004-07-02          89903

Dear Adrian

Thanks for the information.

This website was forwarded to me by Chipuren.

These guys are very very expensive, so I am thinking to import direct from china, knowing I now have parts back up

Thanks Mate

Tom ....

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GOODREP
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2004-08-01          92434

I an considering ordering a 55 and a 72 hp4x foton/futian with cabs and loaders. I am concerned they may not meet epa and get held up in customs. do they need epa? I am a mspts rep and go to China every year so I will probably go to the factory in Oct and check it out. has anyone done this? ....

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Tom
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2004-08-06          92855

Dear Goodrep.

I would be interested in your opinion once you visit the factory. My understanding is that it is about four to six hours drive from Qingdao air port.

I beleive you would have to purchase the tractors through a trading company in china.

I have been chatting with a cathay Zang from sino tractor zhang email sinotractor-at-263.net

Cathay has been more than helpful.

I do not know about EPA laws (as in Australia it does not apply to tractors)
But I do know you can get perkins engines which may be more aligned with your epa requirements

I am thinking of ording soon. If you would like copies of the information, I have received please advise your email and I will forward it to you

K Regards
Tom
....

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jack
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2004-08-07          92913

Tom,

Keep in mind that the Foton does not meet Australian standards, has a cab that is not certified and is in the process of being taken on by CNH.

Consider the new Merlin's sold out of Melbourne, 20k less that any competitor and fully certified.

Look at www.merlintractors.com.au

Jack ....

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Tom
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2004-08-08          92964

Dear Jack

Thanks for your mesage its much appreciated.

Jack excuse my ignorance, but who are the CNH?

Thank you for the merlins website, but my main interest in the foton is that its fully imported price is very very cheap, and the merlin maybe 20K cheaper than its competiton in Australia, compared to the directed imported foton, it is very expensive. Jack I have very limited funds for a tractor, and this is why the foton has apprealed to me.

I would be interested in any more info you have on the CNH issue with the Foton

Thanks

TOm ....

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rick
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2004-09-01          95303

they call it tractor king. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-09-02          95343

Not in Australia Rick. The only TractorKing decals you'll see on Futian/Foton units are those sold by RuralKing in Indiana/Illinois/Kentucky/Tennessee/Ohio.

//greg// ....

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Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2005-08-17          115008

Australian / Chinese tractors,
- RHINO = Jinma, imported by ag holdings fot 2 years, then Adam White QLD for 2 years.
-Eastwind = DongFang eg DF354 imported by Midway QLD since about 1999.
-Lenar Adam White QLD since about late 2004
-Karma various importers little success.
-FotonEuroleopard- Tractor Imports (Adrian) QLD, I can't see any law suite problems, Australia is not as litigious as the USA, but other than looking similar to a New Holland I can't see any direct infringments on patents.
Besides as you should all know you can get the Chinese manufacturers to make the tractors any colour you want and with any name you want. So whats the big deal get it in red and call it a "Skanky Hoe"! ....

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jonrudy
Join Date: Sep 2005
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2005-09-02          115838

Greetings board;
I've resisted responding to this thread for well over a year now and have finally gotten up enuf gumption to respond. "I am" an owner of a Futian 354 Leopard. That's a 2004, 4wd and 35 hp weighing in at close to 5,000lbs. I probably own the last one admitted into the U.S. (just a guess) It has the offending blue/black color of New Holland. I purchased it from the dealer (now defunct) named in the lawsuit. Chinese tractors are here to stay just like India and Japan Tractors. The tractor has provided me good use in the 86 hours I have put on it. My unit has a Leon Loader that is also top-othe-heap good! As far as the New Holland is concerned, If you take away the hood you have taken away any semblance of the NH. I paid approx $13,000 for this unit w/loader plus tax tag and title. If you plan to diss the Futian or my report please don't bother. I purchased the Futian for the main reason everyone else buys off brand ...Price! Sure I would have rather had the NH or a MF or even a JD but you can't touch what I got for at least 50% more. I have had a few minor issues with this unit but so far nothing to get concerned about. Regards ... Jon ....

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RanchHand
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 37 Virginia / North Carolina Line
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2005-09-02          115869

Jon, People responding honestly is what makes these boards work !

Ronald ....

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jonrudy
Join Date: Sep 2005
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2005-09-04          115932

Hi Ranchhand, Sorry to come across defensive. Guess I'm just a little touchy from the snobbyness of the tractor mainliners NH, MF, JD. I am the first in my family to branch outside the above group. So far not sorry I did. Like I mentioned in my first post, if you remove the hood it looks nothing like a NH. I considered a Jinma but they didn't have what I wanted in stock nearby. With a comparable price I was very tempted to wait. Now for the bad news, my dealer has gone belly up due to the NH lawsuit not that I am in dire straits it would be nice to know a backup for Futian/Foton or whatever they are now called in the event parts are needed. Which will eventually happen fer sure! ....

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moulder
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2005-09-05          115961

Foton , Euroleopard, Futian, whatever. I actualy on sell them in for an importer in Australia. Iv been in the tractor industry for over 15 years, and worked on and for the big names, Ill tell you what they are shitting themselves over the pricing pressure from Kioti/Daedong and the range of Chinese tractors in the market and some of the Italian machines. Ive noticed that the prices of the big names have come down, so its all good mate. There is some crap comming out of China but there is also some good products and they are only getting better it will not be long until the Chinese have the tractor market nailed up. So the way I see it you can join in and take advantage of it or get pushed aside. I think that Jinma and Foton are the pick at the moment. You know that China now supplies the bulk of general manufactured goods to USA and Australia they have us sorted out, they don't need nukes all they would have to do is close there ports to us, if you don't belive me start looking at where most of the things around your house or workshop realy come from these days. Even the big manufacturers are now starting to sub out a lot of their manufacturing to Chinese factories.
Anyway we could supply parts to the US at an absorbatant prices, but I can't believe some one in the US has not jumped onto this one. ....

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n4807g
Join Date: Sep 2005
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2005-09-16          116490

Just found this thread. I bought a Belarus 572 in 1992 for the same reason I just bought a Farm Pro 8240 = Foton 804. After much research and questioning it came down to MF 471, Mahindra 7010 or the Farm Pro 8240. All were similarly sized but the Farm Pro 8240 with a Koyker 310 loader delivered was $26,000. I would have hesitated but the tractor comes with a Perkins Diesel engine. Since I'm familiar with the Perkins Diesel I felt much more comfortable. I am assuming (can anyone confirm) that this is a standard design which means that parts will be available from any Perkins distributor. Also, does anyone own and use the "8" series 4WD tractor...Thanks. ....

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n4807g
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2005-09-17          116550

More info on Perkins engines. The 804/824/8020/8240 all use the Perkins design 1004-4T 4 cylinder turbo charged power plant. Perkins started a relationship (joint venture) with a Chinese engine manufacturer in 1997. The name of the venture is PTEL. In 2002 Perkins wanted to back out of the deal because they claimed the Chinese were not adhering to Perkins request that parts be sourced from approved parts mfg. The Chinese government would not allow them to desolve the relationship. To my knowledge Perkins is still trying to back out of the venture. The end result is the engine is in fact a Perkins designed 1004-4T. After making the engines for over 6 years I think they (PTEL) can probably make a quality engine. I have had experience doing business with Chinese manufacturers in since the mid 80's. It happens all the time; a company goes to China (Perkins) makes a deal to produce their product and after the design/technology is known by the Chinese the "Partner" is discarded. The only question that remains is how long PTEL can call it a "Perkins" engine. ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2005-09-19          116615

Please keep us posted on this tractors performance/operating characteristics. Your likes and dislikes. I am a Farm Pro dealer, but have not added the big tractors to our offering yet, and would really like to have some users perspectives before I commit to the purchase for stock... THanks! ....

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n4807g
Join Date: Sep 2005
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2005-09-19          116620

Hi...I should get the tractor later this week or early next week. I will report on what how I feel about the machine. I'll be comparing it to the Belarus 572. I did a lot of research before deciding on the 8240. Perhaps the determining factor in my case is the ability to keep the Belarus and the 8240. Or if I'm as impressed as I hope, sell the 572 for around $6-7,000. Either way I can't lose. The only "fly" if you will is the claim that it's a Perkins 1004-4T engine. There's no doubt it's a Perkins design, but Perkins no longer backs PETL in China. I'm OK with it from the standpoint that they've been making the engines for some time and should have the QC issues ironed out. It's not the best practice for business, but I've seen this happen a lot in China. I've got a domestic Perkins dealer checking with Perkins on the engine specs. What I hope is it is an identical engine design, for parts consideration after warranty.

n4807g ....

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notamechanic
Join Date: Jan 2008
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2008-01-26          150773

As an owner of one of the affore mentioned tractors (as described in the lawsuit) I can tell you for a FACT these tractors have as much in common with New Hollands as a Buick has with a Mercury. Except, they do have similar hood line, somewhat similar blue paint scheme and cheesy vinyl white lettering. Any other semblance is that it is a tractor with 4 wheels and is blue. Not even the Ford/New Holland blue. The Futian/FOTON/Jinma/DongHueng, chinese fung-shwei whatevers and several other names being imported into the U.S are nothing at all like a New Holland. By the way (Ford)New Holland, is now going to a yellow paint scheme watch out Catepillar! ....

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