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 01-17-2006, 12:39 Post: 122891
AV8R



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 Hot Water Heating

I'm building a house this spring and I am considering using a hot water heating system.

Specifically: In floor in the basement and garage concrete; heat exchanger type water heater; air-handler/heat exchanger with ac for ventilation in the rest of the house.

I have envisioned eventually adding (in the future): more under floor heat in some other areas of the house (under tile); possibly (if someone markets a decent one at a reasonable price) an outdoor wood boiler.

I know there are some folks here who know more about this stuff than I do, what can you tell me about this type of system other than it is $10k more than a regular forced air system. Links to good information? Anything?

Thanks in advance!






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 01-17-2006, 15:26 Post: 122895
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I'M CURRENTLY INSTALLING THE HEATING AND AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEMS IN NEW CONSTRUCTION MYSELF.
I'M GOING WITH THE BUDERUS GB/142 PROPANE WALL MOUNTED BOILER WITH 4 ZONES ,3 HEAT/AC AIR HANDELERS AND AN 80 GAL BUDERUS INDIRECT HOT WATER HEATER WHICH HAS A LOSS OF ONLY 1/4 DEGREE EVERY HOUR OF NON USE.
NICE STUFF, THE BOILER IS RATED AT 99% EFF AND THE EXHAUST IS ONLY 120 DEGREES TOPS AND IT'S OUTSIDE FRESH AIR INTAKE AND OUTSIDE EXHAUST OF COURSE ARE PLUMBED WITH PCV, ENABLING ME TO CLOSE THE HOUSE UP BETTER.
WELL, IF YOU ARE USING AIR HANDELERS YOU ARE TECHNICALLY USING A FORCED AIR HEATING SYSTEM WITH ALOT OF EXTRA PLUMBING, YOUR USING A HYDROCOIL TO HEAT THE AIR AND FORCE IT WITH A FAN THROUGH DUCT WORK.
MY AIR HANDLERS ARE ALSO EQUIPPED WITH AC.WHICH ALLOWS THE FILTERING OF AIR AND HUMIDITY CONTROL.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK, NOT ALL HOME CONSTUCTIONS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE HEATED WITH RADIANT HEAT ,THAT WAS MY PROBLEM, CATHEDRAIL CEILINGS, HIGH CEILING HEIGHTS, LOTS OF WINDOWS, SUNRISE/SUNSET IN RELATION TO NORTH,SOUTH,EAST,WEST EXPOSURE,TYPES OF BUILDING MATERALS ALL FACTOR IN, WITH ANY HEATING SYSTEM.
I CONTRACTED AN ENGINEER TP EVALUATE MY PLANS AND DESIGN A SYSTEM THIS ALLOWED ME TO USE A STRAIGHT UP OLD TIME PLUMBER TO DO MY INSTALL AND NOT HAVE TO PAY BIG BUCKS TO A "COMPANY ENGINEER" WHERE COSTS COULD NOT BE CONTROLLED.
$10,000 MORE ???? MAYBE THE EXTRA IN THE ADDITIONAL PLUMBING REQUIRED AND THE MAN HOURS TO INSTALL. THE PROBLEM WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT THE DEALERS FIX THE PRICES AND WONT SELL TO ANY GENERAL CONTRACTOR GOT TO HAVE CONNECTIONS Wink yeah right
HOWEVER ITS DIFFICULT TO FIND DISTRIBUTORS THAT ARE ABLE TO SELL DIRECTLY TO DYI'ERS ALOT TO BE SAID ABOUT WARRANTY ISSUES.
NOT TO MENTION THE LAWS AND TECHNICAL EXPERTISE NEEDED TO INSTALL THE AC.
TAKE YOUR TIME AND RESEARCH THE SYSTEM THAT WILL BEST SUIT YOUR HOME, THEN EVALUATE FUEL OPTIONS VERSES TYPES OF SYSTEMS. THEN FIND OUT WHAT EQUIPMENT & SUPPLIES COST, THIS WILL HELP TO ASSESS THE FAIRNESS OF AN ESTIMATE. I HAD THREE MAJOR COMPANIES GIVE AN ESTIMATE BEFORE I REALIZED I HAD TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO GO. THESE ESTIMATES RANGED FROM 23,500- 28,000 TO GET ME THE SYSTEM I'M DOING FOR UNDER 16,000 BEING MY OWN SUBCONTRACTOR. KEEP IN MIND MANY HOURS OF RESEARCH AND A VERY SLOOOOW BUILD ENABLED ME TO DO THIS.






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 01-17-2006, 16:17 Post: 122898
Jason
2006-01-17 00:00:00
Post: 122898
 Hot Water Heating

Why do you need to heat HOT water? (just kidding)...

I can't speak for the forced air systems, but I installed an in the floor heating system in my shop (3200 sq. feet), and it's a fairly easy project. Lots of info in available on the internet:

www.aimradiantheating.com
www.radiantcompany.com/system/closed.shtml
www.mvsupply.biz/radiant_heat_design_guide.htm
www.radiantec.com

I went with a tankless water heater in a closed loop system, and it's absolutely great.






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 01-17-2006, 18:39 Post: 122903
kwschumm



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I am in the design phase of retrofitting radiant floor heat on the main floor of our house to augment the POS ground source heat pump that is unreliable and can't keep up on cold days. It will be installed in the floor joists with heat reflectors, easy to do with an unfinished basement that is conditioned space. I've got some to learn so will be interested in what is discussed here. I'm thinking of using our massively oversized propane water heater at first. That may be a permanent solution, or if there are problems we can install a boiler later.






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 01-17-2006, 18:55 Post: 122905
grinder

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 Hot Water Heating

AV8R
The preparation is very important. The base must be very stable.
Check out building sciences .com






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 01-17-2006, 20:15 Post: 122909
AV8R



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JAZ- What brand of boiler are you using with 99% effeciency? The best I've been seeing have been something in the area of mid to upper 80%.

Effeciency is a realitive thing, I realize. I was under the impression that comparing effeciency ratings between a forced air furnace and a boiler are like comparing apples and ballbearings. Is this true?

I have to be honest, I will probably do little of the work myself on the HVAC, so I'm looking for information to use in finding and deciding on a system to have installed.

I appreciate the information. Thanks.






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 01-17-2006, 21:28 Post: 122915
Peters

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On our house that was distroy by fire in 99. I had an out side wood heater and a coil in the Heat pump. With this system I burned little wood and could keep the house at any temp I desired. The outside wood boiler is 120K BTU I believe. I connected it to the pool and it will heat the pool although slowly.
If you have the air handling I think the radiant heating is a little over kill.
One of the things that is critical is isolation of the floor from the ground. If the ground water is high and you do not have foam or enough sand all the heat enters the earth.
I have not place the coil in my ground based heat pump. But could do what Ken suggested as I put marble floors in the Kitchen and baths.






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 01-17-2006, 22:29 Post: 122918
kwschumm



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Our house has forced air heating but we have electric radiant floor heat in the bathrooms with ceramic tile floors. The bathrooms are MUCH more comfortable than anywhere else in the house. One reason we're retrofitting radiant on the main floor is the comfort factor. With the high ceilings and 24 foot vaulted great room all the heat disappears upstairs, and the ceiling fan running in winter mode only helps a little.






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 01-18-2006, 06:53 Post: 122933
AV8R



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Thats exactly why I want to do this too. My house design is similar to below link, so there is a loft and a high vaulted great room. I want to have the flexibility to add the other features in the future (under floor, outdoor boiler, solar, geothermal, whatever the technology brings).

The house I grew up in had baseboard radiators around the outside of the house and it was a comfortable heat that was very reasonable to fuel (natural gas). With no ductwork, there was no AC though.






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 01-18-2006, 08:12 Post: 122939
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 Hot Water Heating

My house has a hot water zone that flows through a copper grid in a forced air system. Then there are separate hot water baseboard zones to two upstairs bedrooms which are off the balcony. Combination baseboard, forced air system. Not sure why the prior owners did this. I assume it was to eliminate ductwork requirements to the upstairs. As a result, when I installed central air it only went to the first floor and balcony. I had to install separate air conditioners to the upstairs bedrooms.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Carpentry Forum

Thread 122891 Filter by Poster:
1 | Andy_H 2 | AV8R 5 | grinder 1 | Jason 1 | JAZAK5 2 | jdcman 3 | kwschumm 12 | ncrunch32 1 | ndherb 2 | Oliver 1 | Peters 6 |




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