Changed over to 12 volt alternator: Belarus  -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum and Review Changed over to 12 volt alternator: Belarus -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum

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 10-06-2009, 12:03 Post: 166204
spudster



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Recently purchased a Belarus 800 tractor. It has two new 12 volt batteries in a series which I believe gives it 24 volts to the starter when the knife switch is closed which grounds these batteries.
I guess that the alternator charges these batteries at 12 volts.There is one medium sized blue wire going to it from the harness and the other two smaller wires are hooked to the same place that the blue wire hooks to then to the two plugs on the alternator.

Wanting to know how to repower the original fuse block on the tractor. I suspect that it is all 12 volt. Since the batteries are at 24 volts when the knife switch is closed which actually grounds the batteries, how do I accomplish this? Is there some sort of resistor in the system that reduces the 24 volts back to 12 volts? Where would I take the 12 volts from to repower the fuse block?
Thanking you in advance for any suggestions, Dave in Nova Scotia






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 10-06-2009, 12:28 Post: 166206
auerbach



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Before you plan and make changes based on guesses, Dave,

(1) find out what you have. It's easy enough to measure how many volts go where.

(2) Why are there are two batteries? In a diesel that you use in the daytime, all a battery is needed for is cranking the starter. If yours wasn't up to that one job, maybe the starter needs work or you should see to starting aids such as a block heater, decompression control, glowplugs.

(3) How will your starter react to a 24v-shot if it was designed for 12?

(4) Unless it came out of the box with two batteries, the alternator and regulator would be carefully sized to charge one, and may have trouble with two, whether in parallel or series.

In short, with more info, we might be able to help more.






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 10-06-2009, 13:47 Post: 166208
hardwood

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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Dave in NS
The 4010 John Deere farm tractors that came out in 59 or 60 had a weird system like that. the starter and generator were 24 volt and the reat of the system was 12. I had one and it was a problem, finally they had a replacement starter and gen that was 12 volt, maybe Belarus has a changeover thing like that now. Frank.






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 10-06-2009, 14:42 Post: 166211
Murf

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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

There's a reason the Belarus (and the rest of the Russian tractors for the most part) have a 24 volt starter.

Most of them are a real son-of-a-gun to start in the winter without really cranking them over. A 12 volt system just takes so many amps it's a real wiring problem. By doubling the voltage the current is cut in half.

On many pieces of large equipment it is very common to find 24 and even 48 volt starter systems.

If it's working why mess with it?

Best of luck.






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 10-06-2009, 16:08 Post: 166219
spudster



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Hi & thanks for your reply.

The folks who owned the Belarus 800 before I acquired it appears to have changed over from whatever charging system it had to what appears to be a delco alternator with the built in regulator.
From the biggest terminal on the alternator is a medium sized blue wire.
Where the two smaller wires originally plugged into the alternator now are also connected to the larger pole of the alternator where the blue wire also is connected.
On the batteries which are positive to negative to positive to negative to ground thru a knife switch is one medium sized red wire which I suspect comes from the alternator to keep the batteries charged. From the positive battery terminal is the large cable which goes directly to the starter
From the limited amount of info that I can find via the internet it appears that the Belarus 800 model came with either a 12 volt starter or a 24 volt starter. I have a wiring drawing but it is in black and white and is very tough to trace especially thru the plug together terminal illustrations. There are no color or number id's on the wires in the drawing.
I really want to get this figured out so I can get the lights on the tractor working before the winter.

Thanks again for all your comments.






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 10-06-2009, 23:14 Post: 166221
spudster



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

This is the data on the tractor I'am trying to figure out how to power up the fuse block.

800 SERIES




800 / 800M / 820 / 822 802 / 805 / 825 / 825R

(820) (825)

Engine

Cylinders 4
Engine Horsepower 81
PTO Horsepower 75.2
Rated RPM 2200
Displacement 289.8 ci
Aspiration Natural
Bore (inches) 4.33
Stroke (inches) 5.12

Transmission

Speeds forward / reverse 9 / 2

Electrical System

Batteries - 24V start, 12V charge
Alternator Amps 50
Cold Crank Amps 740
PTO Speeds

Rear 540 / 1000

Hydraulic System

Max. Flow at Rated Speed 11.8 gpm

Rear 3-Point Hitch

Category II
Load Capacity 3324 lbs

Fuel Tank Capacity

Gals. 34.4

Approx. Weight (lbs)

800 7694
802 / 805 8560
820 8520
822 / 825 9100






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 10-07-2009, 10:50 Post: 166224
Murf

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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudster | view 166219
Hi & thanks for your reply. The folks who owned the Belarus 800 before I acquired it appears to have changed over from whatever charging system it had to what appears to be a delco alternator with the built in regulator.From the biggest terminal on the alternator is a medium sized blue wire. Where the two smaller wires originally plugged into the alternator now are also connected to the larger pole of the alternator where the blue wire also is connected.



That's the key to it right there.

The Belarus is an ok machine, but parts can be a PITA to get a hold of sometimes.

They obviously found this out and so changed it over to a standard automotive alternator, and probably a 100 amp model to boot.

The 3 wire thing is because the GM (Delco) type alternator needs 12 volts supplied to it to excite the field coils and make electricity. By linking all 3 together they have jury-rigged it into working on this tractor.

Personally, as long as everything else is working, I'd just tap 12 volts off one battery and wire up the lights with an inline fuse.

Best of luck.






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 10-07-2009, 15:37 Post: 166227
spudster



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Hi & thanks for your interesting comments.
In the old wiring diagram that I got with the owners book (not a repair manual) As far as I can see there is a wire that came off the original generator / alternator that connected to a regulator and then a second wire that shares the same connection point on that regulator. From there the second wire goes to what they are calling the instrument panel connector plug. It is showing this plug as two seperate parts on the drawing. I suspect one side may be male and the other female and they likely plug into each other. This is where it gets difficult to trace the wiring since none of it is color coded or numbered. The wire appears to run thru this connector and then to the (+) or positive side of the amp meter and continues on to splice into what looks like a wire that leads to a fuse on the fuse block. From the splice it appears to run to what they are calling a junction block that seems to carry the power to the upper & lower beams and marker light and the signal lite on one side of the tractor. That junction block also has a wire that leads over to the junction block on the opposite side of the tractor for those lights.
(right & left side)

I can't see any purpose for the old regulator now since the transplanted delco alternator has the built in regulator............ Could this work..............
Say I hook up another wire from the same connection point on the delco alternator that charges the batteries now and connect it to the second wire that is sharing the same connection point on the original regulator. I could disconnect that second wire from the old regulator and splice in that feed directly from the delco alternator. As far as I can determine that appears to be the 12 volt wire that could power up the whole fuse block.
Presently none of my instruments or lights are working.
I would appreciate any suggestions that could be helpful.

Thank you, The spudster.






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 12-06-2009, 07:03 Post: 167228
pggabi



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 Changed over to 12 volt alternator

Hi. I'm an elektrician from Hungary. My partner has an Belorus MTZ 820.2 typ. tractor. The next the problem: The electrical system is 12v, but the starting system is 24v, and there are two 12v batteries. The generator charging only the left side battery (from the seat). The right side always go dead. I can't find 12/24V switch, and I think there isn't on tractor that device...

If anybody can help to me, send a message please.
Thanks G.






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 12-06-2009, 08:13 Post: 167229
Murf

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First of all, welcome!

Some of the Belarus tractors only charged the one battery. The solution most people here use is to install a normally open relay in the ignition circuit. Use this relay to then connect that battery to the alternator output.

This way the battery is being charged when the engine is running, but it doesn't disturb the 24 volt starter circuit.

Best of luck.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Belarus Forum

Thread 166204 Filter by Poster:
auerbach 1 | earthwrks 1 | hardwood 1 | mrinkspot 1 | Murf 3 | pggabi 2 | spudster 4 | tractor1985 1 |




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