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Big Red has arrived

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2008-10-06          157051

It's BIG.

And it certainly is RED.

Note: It is in a 6x10 dump trailer.... and there is no spare space!


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DRankin
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2008-10-06          157052

And another view....... This critter isn't going to fit in the bed of your pick-up........ ....

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kwschumm
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2008-10-06          157053

I can't quite make out the brand, is that a Honda? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-10-06          157054

Yup, a Honda indeed, and Mark is of course correct, it's a BIG one at that.

I'll be interested to know what you think of it, I've been looking at them myself.

My problem is the 'farmer' in me says that for something that weighs 1500 pounds it needs a bigger engine than a 675 one-lunger, and that if I'm going to have something that big I might as well just carve up a Toyota 4X4 pickup and make my version of what the beast could be.


Best of luck.

....

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DRankin
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2008-10-06          157056

I have read a lot of opinions on the internet and the prevailing wisdom says that Honda blew it by:

1)Making the engine too small, and

2)Not building a low range into the transmission.

I would point out that no one who has driven one has come away with those opinions.

First the engine. Honda does not publicize the amount of HP their engines make. However, Polaris makes a similar (computer controlled/electronic fuel injected, liquid cooled, high tech)850 cc twin that they rate at 70 HP.

That is an amazing 82 HP per liter or put another way, about 1.35 HP per cubic inch (based on 1 liter = 61.024 cubic inches).

Since Honda is no slouch when it comes to high tech small engines, if we apply the same standard of 82 HP/Liter, that would push the Honda engine into the 55 HP range.

And that is about what it feels like in the seat of your pants, at least 50 HP. It scoots right along, even here, a mile above sea level and with a new, stiff engine and drive train.

Next: the lack of a low range. One of the unusual features of both Big Red and the Rincon I traded in on it, is the lack of drive belts to slip or wear out.

Instead both have an automotive style 3 speed automatic transmission with a torque converter. The result is that as you push up steeper and steeper slopes, the engine spools up higher and higher before the torque converter engages and starts turning the wheels. Additionally, there is very little wheel spin in these situations. It mostly just grabs and goes.

I have pushed both machines up nearly vertical slopes, or at least slopes that were so steep that to continue would have resulted in the machine flipping on its back.

If you cannot "rock crawl" with that type of HP and gearing, I don't know what to tell you.

So far I am liking it a lot. It is very comfortable in both seating and ride. The independent suspension on all four corners is really nice. And, unlike the Rincon, the Big Red has an option to lock or unlock both axles so you don't tear up your lawn.

The Big red is the machine I was hoping to get when I bought that poor underpowered and over-engineered Kubota RTV.





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Murf
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2008-10-06          157058

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 157056
Since Honda is no slouch when it comes to high tech small engines, if we apply the same standard of 82 HP/Liter, that would push the Honda engine into the 55 HP range.


Mark, you can't quite make that leap of faith in this case, you could if the Honda was also a twin though.

You're forgetting that a twin has twice as many power strokes at the same RPM as a single does.

I will follow your 'hands on' reviews with great interest though.

For my needs though I suspect the Toyota going under the 'gas knife' for a little surgery will be the ultimate outcome. In my case I have need of a cargo capacity of substantially greater than 500 pounds, and a hydraulic dump is now nearly mandatory.

I've done several before for others, but never got around to doing one for myself, maybe this winter I'll get around to it.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-06          157061

I know it is not necessarily a direct comparison, but the Big Red is by no means underpowered.

A 2 cylinder engine would certainly be inherently smoother, but it would have more moving parts and I would guess more internal friction to overcome.

Anyway, compared to the RTV, Red is lightweight and a rocket. ....

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cutter
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2008-10-06          157062

Power should certainly be adequate but as Murf states, chopping up an old 4x4 is economically more palatable. I have the 6x6 Polaris, use the heck out of it, but often thought an old Jeep would have been a better choice and save the other 8 or 9k.

BUT, the small vehicle does have many benefits. As you can see in my profile, I still have mine. That 500 cc pushes the thing faster than I will drive it in high gear.

Good luck with yours, love the automatic!





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DRankin
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2008-10-06          157069

Yup, if Murf is hauling more than 500# in the bed and needs a hydraulic dump, the pick-up is the way to go.

Red fits a lot better on the old mine trails and pioneer roads in back of the house than the Tundra.

Just noticed that Kubota has a new RTV 500. This one is small enough to fit between the wheel wells of a pick-up and has a whopping 16 horsepower gas engine.

Kubota also dressed out the RTV 900 with a full cab and accessories, increasing the weight by 500 pounds and calls it the RTV 1100.

According to the web site, they added three(3)horsepower to the engine to compensate (??!).

Those things must run a whole lot better at sea level.........

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DRankin
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2008-10-06          157070

Cutter...... how did you like that soft cab you had on the Polaris? ....

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cutter
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2008-10-07          157073

I still have the machine and the soft top. Originally intended to sell it but never got around to it....for some reason.

For what it cost me, the soft top is great. The thing stays on year around and is a blessing in the winter. ....

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Murf
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2008-10-07          157074

Mark, you nailed it right on, if I was doing what you are, I certainly would have done the same as you and gone for the Big Red.

Unfortunately my need for a machine is principally as a pure work machine, hauling firewood mostly, but also to skid logs. Even the small 4.5' x 4.5' box I make for the back full of fresh cut hardwood weighs easily 1,000 pounds.

BTW, I've done the calc's, Honda says the Big Red is 64" wide, a Toyota pickup (pre-Tundra old style pickup) is 66.5" wide. After I finish chopping the frame and making a new box, the Big Red is ~1.5' shorter, and likely has a much better turning radius though.

Enjoy, I'm really envious.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-07          157075

I plan on towing Red behind the motorhome once in a while so I did some measurements.

The 65 inch measurement is fender to fender somewhere on the machine. The rubber to rubber span is about 60 inches give or take a fraction.

That makes a 5 foot wide trailer too skinny and a 6 footer a bit cumbersome. And since the thing weighs in at 1400+ pounds it is a bit too heavy for a trailer with a 2000 pound axle.

I found some really nifty trailers designed to transport 4 wheelers, but they have the afore mentioned 2000# axle and an empty weight of 500#. Too close to the limits I think.


The local trailer guy sez he can get a 3500# single axle landscape type trailer with a big fold down ramp that has a 5.5x10 foot bed.

Might have to go there. ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-07          157076

Murf, have you seen the ready-made 3 point tippy bed things (note: real eloquent, huh?) from the Northern Tool Catalog?

Sounds close to what you are doing, except you are stuck with hauling at tractor transport speeds.

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Murf
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2008-10-07          157077

Mark, IMHO you have two options;

First is to find a 5' wide flat deck trailer with a 2,000 pound axle, the lack of sides and such should mean that you come in just under GVWR, but not by much.

The second, and probably easier way to go is to use a 'standard' 6' x 12' 'box trailer' which should have about a 2,500 pound payload.

Bear in mind that if the motorhome has enough capacity, you can always load it with a little more than 10% tongue weight, up to about 25% you shouldn't have a problem with sway. On a 1,500 pound load, 25% tongue weight means the trailer is only carrying 1,125 pounds. That should keep you safe with a 2,000 pound axle.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-07          157079

Geez... I never considered subtracting the tongue weight.....

Red had its engine/transmission directly amidships. I would have to get a 12 foot trailer to "adjust" the tongue weight.

Food for thought....... Thanks. ....

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Murf
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2008-10-07          157080

Speaking of 'food for thought'....

And I realize you are not exactly in the right area for this, but......

A boat trailer with a solid (read plywood) floor added is just about what the doctor ordered, axle(s) down the back, long tongue, possibly even surge brakes.

Best of luck. ....

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hardwood
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2008-10-07          157088

DRankin; It is none of my business what you actually paid for "Big Red", but what is the sticker on one equiped as yours is??? Now be honest on this one, did you buy it for work or play? My Gators have all been for work, but they are nice for a cool evening ride after supper too. Frank. ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-07          157093

I bought it in Oregon, about a 6 hour drive from my house. Nevada has sales tax and Oregon does not.

That long day on the road saved about $850 in sales tax.

The MSRP is $11,400 and I got it for $11,200. I also got $1300 more for my trade-in and didn't have to pay $500 in freight that the local dealer charges.

All-in-all about $2800 off the local price.....not that they actually had one locally to sell. I did burn up about 65 gallons of gas.

It will do a little work around the house, like hauling trash cans down to the road, but it is mostly for getting out in my "backyard".

Just across my back fence is a tract of open BLM range land that stretches 27 miles east and west and 34 miles north and south.

If you lived on a lake that size you would certainly have a boat. ....

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unit5alive
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2008-10-29          157558

Mark if you think the new 16hp Kubota rtv is a low hp machine you probably wouldn't care for my mule 610 with a "great big" 13.5hp engine! , Craig. ....

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kthompson
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2008-10-29          157564

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 157093
I bought it in Oregon, about a 6 hour drive from my house. Nevada has sales tax and Oregon does not.That long day on the road saved about $850 in sales tax.The MSRP is $11,400 and I got it for $11,200. I also got $1300 more for my trade-in and didn't have to pay $500 in freight that the local dealer charges. All-in-all about $2800 off the local price.....not that they actually had one locally to sell. I did burn up about 65 gallons of gas.It will do a little work around the house, like hauling trash cans down to the road, but it is mostly for getting out in my "backyard". Just across my back fence is a tract of open BLM range land that stretches 27 miles east and west and 34 miles north and south.If you lived on a lake that size you would certainly have a boat.


Mark, help me on history. Did they not call the covered wagons "ships or boats" as they crossed the west? kt ....

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DRankin
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2008-10-30          157576

Craig..... I could have lived with the HP.... but the HST did not function correctly, especially in reverse where the HST would stall and refuse to turn the wheels under certain circumstances.

I will bet your Mule will at least spin the wheels.

KT, how about schooners? Prairie schooners.

....

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cutter
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2008-10-30          157581

That life is looking better to me all the time :) ....

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unit5alive
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2008-11-01          157608

Mark ,they will spin in dirt, but I don't think they will spin on a hard surface ,I do not know,I have not tried it yet!, how do you like the Big Red ? ....

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DRankin
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2008-11-02          157616

I am liking it a lot. My only real gripe is that it does not come with any sort of instrumentation. There is no way to account for hours, miles or miles per hour which puts the maintenance schedule on a guesswork status.

Honda now has a $200 instrument package that is plug and play, but they didn't make it easy. You have to remove the entire dashboard assembly and cut a hole in the dash to mount the new instrument package.

The directions for the instrument set-up are pretty good. It took me about 90 minutes to do the job.

There is no lack of power. It goes plenty fast and will climb nearly vertical terrain. Seats are comfy, great ride quality and light, easy steering.

It took three tractor purchases to find what I really like and need. Red is my third ATV/UTV and I think it's a keeper too.
....

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unit5alive
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2008-11-03          157627

my Mule had a hour meter only, so i added a tiny tach that also has a 2 hour meters , and the factory speedometer that also has a hour meter , so now I have a speedometer/tach/& 4 hour meters , lol , Craig. ....

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