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An Interesting Comparison RTV vs 1987 Samurai

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-17          112504

Wheelbase: RTV....77.4 vs. Samurai....79.9

Width: RTV....59.8 vs. Samurai... 60.2

OA Length: RTV... 119 inches vs. Samurai... 135 inches

Turning Diameter: RTV... 24.6 feet vs. Samurai...33 feet

Curb Weight: RTV...1874 pounds vs. Samurai... 2094 pounds**

Horse Power: RTV.... 21.6 HP vs. Samurai.....60 HP(Hello!)

** Open cab RTV vs Closed cab, convertible Samurai. A full cab on the RTV would put it in the same weight range as the Samurai.

Samurai comes with the following stuff that costs extra on the RTV: Roof, doors, windows, windshield, wipers, turn signals, speedometer, heater/defroster, headrest and glove box.

RTV has the following not included on a stock Samurai: automatic transmission(sort of ?), receiver hitches, power steering.

Cost: RTV with Cab, heater and all the goodies $15,000-$16,000

Cost: used 1987 Suzuki Samurai in good shape with 50,000 miles on the clock.... $1500.


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-06-17          112506

Excellent comparison DR! I've often wondered why people are spending 10's of thousands of dollars on these UTVs and ATVs when a small pickup or "Jeep" type vehicle would do the same or more for MUCH less money, and be legal to drive to town, too!

I had a friend who purchased a used GEO Tracker rather than an ATV for hunting. He had far less money involved, even after a winch, camo paint, lift kit and larger tires, yet the vehicle was still street legal and far more capable as a hunting rig!

Is there something I'm missing? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-06-17          112507

Mark, from a purely cost/benefit analysis point of view you're dead right.

From an off-road fun (utility?) buggy point of view, there is one (albeit a little more work) choice.

A really popular choice around here is to take a mid 1980's Toyota 4X4 pickup, remove the box (there usually rotten anyways) and shorten the frame until the rear axle is just behind the cab. Then they whip up a quick (usually dumping) light plate box with fold-down sides for the back.

In fact I'm thinking of doing one myself for up at the cottage.

By shortening the wheelbase they turn very tightly, and you just can't kill those little 22R engines. If so desired after market lifts and so on are very readily available.

They make an awesome hunting buggy, it's amazing where they will go, and a heated cab sure beats an ATV in the cold wet snows of fall up here.

The other advantage is the ability to leave it licensed for road travel, and Air Conditioning to defeat those mosquitoes in the summer.

Best of luck.
....

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StephenR
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 230 New Tripoli, Pa.
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2005-06-17          112508

And I'll never forgive Consumer Reports and the rest of those safety nazis for killing the Samurai either. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-06-17          112509

If you have a CUT why do you need an RTV? ....

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danputtputt
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 20 northern michigan
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2005-06-17          112513

Because you can! We have a CUT as well as a RTV. Seems to fit into our lifestyle now. Really thought it over hard though. We made the decision to put our money into where we live, rather than buying a second home or travel. So on this 80 acres, we build a 1 acre pond and developed a trail network through the woods to ride. Wouldn't have held much interest a decade ago, but now and in the future it is what we enjoy. I think it's really just about where you are in life! ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-06-17          112514

Isn't the Samurai and the GEO the same thing? They should have made a woodie model that could have served dual purpose use; as a coffin. The early models rusted to pieces, the tops disintegrated, used a motorcycle engine that lasted less than 60,000 miles and would get pushed off the road with a 30mph cross wind.

In my area lots of parents bought these for their teen aged kids because they were cute and cheap. Sadly, most parents found out these vehicles killed 4 to 6 teenagers at a time.

Did I say that I didn't like them! ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-06-17          112517

Unless we're talking about two different vehicles here, I think there's a little "journalistic licence" being taken here.

We have had several of those vehicles, and in fact used them as 'work' vehicles. Yes they rusted, so did every other Asian vehicle of that same era, no more, no less.

As for "...a motorcycle engine that lasted less than 60,000 miles...", I don't know, we easily got in excess of 100,000 miles out of ours in hard service.

As for "...get pushed off the road with a 30mph cross wind." I again wonder about this, I have driven them lots in winds stronger than that with no problems, it is, however, a 2,000 pound vehicle, not a Sherman Tank.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-06-17          112522

When I first read this post I thought of the Subaru BRAT. The BRAT might be a better utility type vehicle than the Samurai because it's like a small pickup truck. Of course you'd probably want to jettison those funky in-the-bed seats. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-06-17          112523

If you can even find a brat some where. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-06-17          112524

Probably easier to find in the desert southwest where Mark lives. Nothing rusts out there. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-17          112528

Yooper, you might be thinking of a Geo Metro or similar tiny cars. Three cylinder engine, 12 inch wheels, etc.

The Samurai has a 1.3 liter, single overhead cam, 4 cylinder, carbureted engine. The model that replaced it, the Sidekick/Tracker has an even larger, 90 horse, fuel injected engine. I am not up on motorcycles, but these don't look like motorcycle engines.

I haven't seen a Brat in years. If I ever do see one I will snap it up.

One thing you can do with the Samurai that you can't do with other small 4x4's is the easy replacement of the transfer case gears with gears so low they would make your tractor envious.

The Samurai uses a separate T-case(not joined to the transmission)and quality rebuilt T-cases with lower gear ratio's are available for as little as $800 bucks.

I have no need to jack up my new toy. It has more than enough ground clearance as it stands. I might put some tractor gears in it though.

....

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BrendonN
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 89 Central Kansas
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2005-06-18          112535

This discussion points out exactly why I have the '61 IH Scout that I do. In addition to being a collector's item, it makes a great utility vehicle. I bought it with a full length cab but I ditched that in favor of an original half cab that leaves the 5' bed open. Much more handy around the acreage. I use it to haul firewood, hay bales, branches, sand and dirt, garden produce, and a lot more. And, with an 8000-lb PTO winch, it can do work that an ATV couldn't touch. Just the other week we used it to skid a 1600 bushel grain bin back on a new pad at my in-law's farm. And, like pointed out previously, it is fully street legal. All for a total investment of about $2000 which includes a complete engine rebuild, new tires, and the additional cab.
About the worst part of using this type of vehicle for an ATV is the wide turning circle. I think my extended cab F-150 can turn shorter than the Scout. Newer vehicles with open knuckle front axles (like the previously mentioned Samuri, Toyota pickup, Jeep, etc.) can turn a lot better. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-06-20          112572

The comment about the T-case and low gears just reminded me of an interesting truck on one of the jobs we did years ago.

The guy wanted a truck geared down to nothing, but couldn't find the gears he needed so did what he thought was the next best thing.

He converted it to Hydrostatic drive. He put a swash plate style pump on the back of the motor in place of the TX and a pair of skidsteer drive motors (working in unison) out of a wrecked unit on the input shaft to the T-case.

The result was 100% engine power at an infinite range of speeds.

It certainly was creative if nothing else.

Best of luck. ....

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RollTideRam
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30 Hartselle, Alabama
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2006-02-13          124456

Just poking around the forum and found this thread. Glad to see some Samurai fans in here. Mine is built for the trails now, so I don't get it on the road anymore. I am looking for another one after I priced a new 4x4 Gator though. JC ....

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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2006-02-13          124463

Thought this might intrest someone. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-02-14          124473

It seems the prices on those little monsters is going up.

Not surprising I guess considering the growing popularity and diminishing supply......... ....

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RollTideRam
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30 Hartselle, Alabama
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2006-02-14          124478

If you keep your eye open, you can still get them cheap. Some people don't know their potential. Suzuki Sidekicks and Geo trackers are the next step, but they have IFS and are not as capable offroad. But you can swap in their bigger engines with little trouble. JC ....

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acerguy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 69 Wisconsin
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2007-02-27          140055

I periodically look for Samurais and Sidekicks for this very reason. My CUT just isn't the hot ticket for moving around the woods; despite being very manuverable (JD4100) it is just too tippy for comfort in my hilly woods. Also, pulling my utility trailer around is not ideal although so far I've made do. My problem with the small SUV route is not enough cargo room for putting firewood and whatnot. While I like the idea of cutting down a minipickup, I'm not sure I would still end up with what I want. And the UTV's and RTV's seem to be pretty pricey for what you get. After a recent trip to Asia I've become fascinated by the thought of getting one of the used japanese mini (as in MICRO) pickups.

http://www.usedminitrucks.com/
http://superminitrucks.com/
http://www.offroadminitrucks.net/

...and many others. What I like about these is that you can get them with dump beds, heat, lockable cab, etc. No, they're certainly not road legal but then, neither is an RTV. Anyone have any experience with them?
....

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