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Kubota Review

L2950 "EVER CLUTCH" NOISE

2002-03-03 00:00:00 36038  chuck ricker

I have '92 L2950 with "ever clutch". This is my second Kubota and I was impressed with both units. My problem is a chatter that is heard at idle to about 1200 rpms. This noise can be removed my depressing clutch fully at idle or coming off free play while released. Also if you are above 1200 rpm the noise is gone. The clutch works well and is properly adjusted. Before I split the tractor I would like some input.
Thanks
chuck ricker
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L2950
2002-03-12 00:00:00 36292  kubmech

You can split it, lube the shaft and pilot bearing, put it all back together, and have it make the same noise a few hours down the road if you want to......In other words, common problem. ....
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L2950
2002-03-13 00:00:00 36302  TomG

I guess most every tractor has some rpm that rattles things around, and throw-out bearings tend to be pretty loose things anyway. Splitting a tractor is a lot of work, and the work is easiest justify when something definitely is broken.

I guess my throw-out bearing doesn't rattle, but I've sure had them rattle on cars and trucks. I just make sure that the bearing is pulled completely off the pressure plate when the clutch is out and then wait for the rattle to turn into a grind before seriously thinking about replacing it. But then, I've never had a bearing failure; some have rattled for years. I don't think there's much change of causing additional damage, but maybe somebody knows for certain.
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L2950
2002-03-13 00:00:00 36305  Chuck Ricker

I bought this tractor from an elder gentleman with 700 hours. It was sitting in his garage recently waxed with everything looking great. I never drove it or even stopped to see if anything even worked. It is spot less. I paid him and drove home. He brought it to my house while I was on vacation. Once home I checked out the sight gauge for the hydraulic fluid and none was visable. I added about 1.5 gal of light blue Dryden and now the sight gauge is brown but level is ok. the 3 pt hitch is also jerky up and down. I was praying that maybe dirty and burnt fluid or pluged filter just might be the bad guy. The clutch noise also has a grind to but works well. But my old L2250 still shifts better.
Thanks for any imput
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-03-13 00:00:00 36316  kubmech

I miss stated in my previous post some what. The Ever clutch splines directly into the flywheel. It does't have the traditional pressure plate and throw out bearing. A common problem with this design is for the play between the shaft splines and flywheel splines will make noise when not under constant load. This may be the noise you are hearing. ....
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L2950
2002-03-13 00:00:00 36317  Roy Jackson

"I added about 1.5 gal of light blue Dryden and now the sight gauge is brown but level is ok. the 3 pt hitch is also jerky up and down"

Sounds like air in the hydraulic system. Unless the manual states it's self bleeding, don't assume it is.

Probably be a good idea to drain the system completely and renew the fluid. ....
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L2950
2002-03-14 00:00:00 36319  TomG


Now I know something about an Ever Clutch but still can't visualize the parts and how they fit together. I guess light blue Dryden is a hyd/TX fluid Kubota owners know about--it would be a hockey player/coach to me.

It's good to change all oil and filters on a used tractor unless there's certainty about their condition. For people who haven't changed TX oil before, it takes a bit of planning. Few people have a large enough drain pan to take all the oil, so a new container has to be swapped mid-way (screwing the fill cap back in slows the drainage). Oil pails don't work for drains on some tractors because there isn't enough ground clearance. Getting new oil back in is a problem without a pump. The cases on my Ford have three drain plugs.

I'm thinking about this 'jerky both up and down' stuff. Generally the hydraulic components that might produce jerky motion in one direction are different from those that might produce jerky motion in the other--I'm assuming that the 3ph is an open centered position control type without draft control. Some exceptions might be a faulty 3ph pressure relief valve or a binding lift cylinder. Binding in the rock shaft or lift arms also is a possibility. I guess that hot frothy oil that could result from a clogged filter or obstructed suction line might cause generally erratic operation.

I guess I'd change the oil/filter and then see what happens. If the problem persists, I'd check the oil after a period of operation to ensure that it's not overly hot and frothy.





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L2950
2002-03-14 00:00:00 36344  Kubmech

Tom, it's a whole different animal as far as the clutch is concerned. As far as the chatter in the 3 point? So many issues... let's see how the fluid and filter change go. ....
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L2950
2002-03-15 00:00:00 36357  TomG

Yes, I know. I'm interested in how things work, and perhaps excessively so. I probably was angling for a quick explanation, but in my heart I know that it's up to me to do my own research.

Yep, I wonder what's going on with the hydraulics. Maybe some more information will be posted. In the meantime, I'll contain my tendency to speculate, which usually results in a flurry of excessively long posts from me.
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L2950
2002-03-15 00:00:00 36367  chuck ricker

I have nothing wrong with 3pt hitch except it is not smooth. Changing the fluid and cleaning the filter I think will correct my jerking up and down on the 3pt hitch. I was hoping that this might also correct my clutch noise since the fluid was so low and the brown color showed that what was in the sight guage was too much heat build up. My local dealer faxed me a break down of the clutch. This sound is like a throw-out bearing with a couple of fingers from the preasure plate thrown in and rattle and grind. After filling with fluid I thought this system is a self-bleeder and did not read the book about bleeding. But I will check for air before changing fluid. The sound is bad compared to how good my L2250 sounds. I do want it to leave.
Thanks for your imput
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-03-15 00:00:00 36368  chuck ricker

There is a low preasure line that runs from the hydr pump to clutch that is why I thought dirty fluid might be my trouble.
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-06-20 00:00:00 39721  CHUCK RICKER

A week ago I split my L2950 to remove noise. As "KUBMECH" stated no pilot bearing just spline adapter bolts to flywheel and imput shaft goes in spline adapter. In 700 hours it was so worn I could shave with shaft.A very poor design. Clutch was fine, clutch brake was fine, shifting fork worn and I replaced 2 bearings 2seals in clutch assemble and both micro safety switches. There is no way to lube the splines. I used never-seeze for the splines is this ok? What fun, 25 hours with a great sense of "why with only 747 hours am I doing this". Is this going to happen every 700 hours? Does Kubota have a recall on this? Is Kubota going to correct this faulty design? I know they are sharper than this. Does anyone know Kubota's complaint department? After spending 750.00 on parts I now have a great tractor again, but I still think Kubota should share in the fun and expence. If you know any answers to these questions I will be glad to listen. Thanks again for your imput.
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-06-21 00:00:00 39725  TomG

Too bad about the problems. Good questions about them, but too bad they have to be asked. It seems sort of ironic to call something that might require a split every 700-hours an Ever Clutch. Maybe a Seldom Clutch would be more like it. I would stick with the customer service folks though. There might be a manufacturing defect or usage issue. For example, if this design is particularly sensitive to feathering and a warning wasn't in the literature, then maybe the CS folks can do something.

I still don't have it in mind exactly what an Ever Clutch is, but it sounds like a basic clutch with no bell 'n whistles such as power shift or hydraulic assist. If it has a low pressure oil-line to the unit, then it's probably a wet clutch.

If the input shaft is splined into the flywheel then it sounds like the shaft spins all the time and it raises the question in my mind 'Input to what?' When I hear 'input shaft' I think of the TX, but it sounds like it must be input to a clutch unit. If it's a wet clutch, I wonder how the design might differ with some JD's that also use wet clutches. I'm imagining something like a continuously rotating shaft supported with splines at one end and maybe a compound bearing at the other.

Since splines and compound bearings both have play, it's easy to imagine that the splines would be subject to wear even placed in heavy cases that are bolted together. The pilot bearing in a traditional dry clutch design provides additional support for the TX input shaft, and the shaft doesn't rotate doesn't rotate when the clutch is disengaged. I used old 'sticky' bearing grease for pilot bearings, but I guess that wouldn't work for these splines. I havenít heard of JD wet clutches having this problem, and I wonder how their design works. For that I wonder about how the wet clutches on old Hudson cars worked. Wet clutches arenít exactly a radically new idea.



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L2950
2002-06-21 00:00:00 39730  CHUCK RICKER

The way this works is as follows; dry splined hub bolts to flywheel, this is all support there is for end of imput shaft. I am taking you front to rear. Imput shaft (524.00) runs from flywheel splined hub to trans, with a dry end with no way to lube through oil bearing and oil clutch. Imput shaft has everything going either thru or shaft goes through all clutch parts as well as being shaft to trans. This clutch has 8 disc and a clutch brake. It works well but the old shaft had a boss for a pilot bearing and the new did not. The distance between support bearing and were the pilot bearing should be is about 5 inches. This is what in my opinion causes my spline to wear premature. That and not being able to lube the splines is a poor design. That is why I need address for Kubota to see if I can get some answers to what I think is a problem. What is your thoughts on the never seeze on the splines ?
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-06-21 00:00:00 39738  MRETHICS

I've read all the posts on this subject, I think I'm up to speed.

Anti seez compound would probably be my first choice, that's about all you can do. I know very little about the ever clutch.

We are a Deere dealer, we took a Kubota L2950 in on trade last year with 1500 hrs on the meter. It had the same noise you described, and the same solution. Except the tech. used a different lube when he put it back together, he choose a silicon based grease because he felt that it would attract less fogrein matter. I don't know if he was right or wrong, the tractor was sold to a customer quite a ways away and we have not heard from him.

I will say this, I feel 700 hrs is not long enough to be haveing that kind of problem. 1500 i felt was acceptable life for clutch componenets.

The tractor we had was the same scenario, It looked great! The FEL bucket almost looked virgin, no dents or bends. one owner(I've known this guy 20 years and remeber when he bought it new) he even alerted me to the noise when I was inspecting his tractor for trade, and said it had made the noise for a while, " a few years" was his comment, so I had alowed extra money for repairs(i was $250 shy in my estimate....it's ok ....this happpens in horse tradeing, it ain't all roses on this side of the desk either LOL)

We don't have a Kubota dealer near here so we have little experience with them, but what little we have had, that was the worst case.

Maybe the "ever" in "ever clutch" means " ''ever hear that noise?"

sorry i can't be of more help.

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L2950
2002-06-22 00:00:00 39746  TomG

Thanks for the Ever Clutch info. I'll digest it later 'cause I have to finish a deck this morning before ĎBBQ and cruising the riverí this afternoon.

The way customer service contact worked for me with NH is that I called their 800 number. They opened a case for me and referred me to my dealer. My dealer came up with an answer, and about a month later NH called to see how happy I was. I imagine Kubota works much the same. Basically, you start with your dealer.
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L2950
2002-06-23 00:00:00 39769  TomG

I'm sitting here thinking; how did the wear happen? I'm curious about the wear pattern. I'm not sure what I'd do with the info, but I'm curious. An engineer (which I'm not) should be able to determine the cause of failure from the wear.

Some wear patterns might suggest a manufacturing defect and others a weak design. These sorts of problems might receive factory attention--sort of an 'auto manufacturer recall' idea. Other wear patterns might suggest usage patterns that were not anticipated in the original designs. For example, tractors were not assumed to have loaders until fairly recently. The front ends and clutches weren't designed for front end weight and a lot of clutching, and there were failures. A usage pattern, even if itís not abusive usage, might be a tougher sell to customer service. The response might be: 'Well the tractor was being used in way it wasn't designed for.'

It might be a good idea to get an opinion about the cause of failure based on the wear before talking to CS. The goal of many CS shops is to keep people happy, but deflect complaints if possible. The easiest way to deflect complaints is to convince customers that their problems are their own faults. It might be good to be armed with some specific ideas that indicate that it not the customer's fault.

I keep think that the flywheel ends input shafts for typical dry clutches also are splined. They are also are dry, aren't regularly lubricated and you really don't expect replace one until the TX is shot. I wonder what the difference is? The Ever Clutch description reminds me of motorcycle clutches, but I know I can't make a comparison since shafts in motorcycles tend to be connected by chains rather than shafts. Using chains allows each end of a shaft to be supported by compound bearings. The shafts may not suffer much wear, but it's the sprockets and chains that need replacing--no free lunches I guess.
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L2950
2002-06-24 00:00:00 39797  chuck ricker

Tom
The design flaw is that the support bearing is to far a way from the power applied source ( flywheel splined hub ) is part of the problem. Other problems are as follows: weak material used for splined hub and imput shaft and lack of lubracating source between splines. As for the clutch disc all eight showed no signs of wear. Kubota must have also been aware of this poor design due to fact this was only in production for two years. I am a sales manager at a Chevrolet Oldsmobile and Kodiak dealership I know about recalls and CSI. I just do not know a name and address at Kubota. Right now the tractor is super but I do not want to go thur all the expence and time again. Kubota, in my eyes is a high qualtiy company, and this is a very poor design. I am going to buy a new tractor and sell this one unless a design change has been made. I realy like Kubota but they a re not the only act in town.
chuck ricker ....
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L2950
2002-06-24 00:00:00 39802  TomG

Chuck:

I think I found a NH 800 number on the NH web site, maybe there's one for Kubota as well. However, as I noted, I think the manufacturers want initial contact to be made through their dealers who then refer complaints to their manufacture reps and on to head office.

Detailed discussion here might help. There was a lot of discussion here about a JD 4000 series steering problem a few years ago. Some axles were redesigned. It's hard telling what caused what, or if a fix would have designed anyway, but the subject got a lot of play here. Unfortunately, a manufacturer fix is likely to be a hard sell. The 4000-series was in the early stages of its run as the compact production model while the Kubota clutch is out of production. Doesnít mean donít try though.
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L2950
2007-04-29 00:00:00 141638  kubotaL-2950

I have the same nosie on my 1992 L-2950 with 550 hr on it. we all with this problem need to contact kubota and get a recall on all ever clutch's. and if they dont do any thing about it we should make a class action lawsuit or somthing? ....
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