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Kubota Review

Directional Control Valve

2001-01-05 00:00:00 23097  Danny Hsu

I have a 1990/later Kubota B7100HST-D. While reading thru my operator/owner's manual on page 12, the topic of Directional Control Valve pops up. Anyone out there have any experienced of its use? I am considering hooking up a 'tilt and trim' cylinders for my box scraper. Any thoughts about 'tilt and trim' ?
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-05 00:00:00 23101  Bird Senter

Danny, I used to have a 1995 B7100HST, but don't recall anything in the manual about a directional control valve, so I don't know the answer to your question. I do know that there is an optional hydraulic outlet kit for my current B2710 and I have one on order (hasn't arrived yet) to put the hydraulic "tip 'n tilt" on my tractor. Tisco makes a tip 'n tilt "kit" for the B8200/9200 tractors and I have ordered the individual components; cylinders, valve, handles, knobs, and linkages (in other words, the same kit without the hoses which I'll have made locally to the lengths I need). Instead of using the optional hydraulic outlet, apparently most folks are using the power beyond port on their front end loaders to do the same thing. And now I don't even remember whether my B7100 with the B1630C had the power beyond feature so I don't know whether that is an option you could consider. If you want the part numbers for the above components, e-mail me. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-06 00:00:00 23124  TomG

Somewhere I got the idea that a 'directional control valve' is what I call a 'diverter valve.' The diverter valve on my Ford 1710 is part of the manifold/relief valve block on the side of the tractor. The valve selects between remote (3ph) and auxillary hydraulic systems. I haven't verified it, but I think that with the valve in aux position, the 3ph doesn't work. I believe my loader and rear hydraulics are powered from the aux system, but the open centre flow is routed back through the 3ph high-pressure line. The way it's plumbed, the 3ph doesn't work if any of the loader valves are actuated.

Something like that probably can be done, but it sounds like Bird has got a line on a kit. It might be easier to get a kit, which should have good plumbing instructions.
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-06 00:00:00 23131  Danny Hsu

Thank you Bird and TomG, Both of you are right on the money. The diverter valve will disable the 3PH lift. I will have to tap to the hydraulic block when simultaneous 3-point hitch operation is needed. I will have to use the control valve of the 'Power beyond type'??? for the operation of the hydraulic block. I think I better wait and learned more about it before ordering anything? Bird, can you give me an estimated cost for the kit versus the parts? Would it be advisable for me to contact Tisco directly since I have a different model? Thanks again. Dan ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-06 00:00:00 23140  Bird Senter

Danny, apparently Tisco's web site is for dealers only, but you can send them an e-mail and ask for the location of the nearest dealer (or call around to tractor dealers and ask if they handle Tisco products). And different dealers sure use different price sheets. One dealer quoted me a price of $861 for the "kit" plus $100 to $150 if they installed it and for individual parts; $240+ for the two spool valve, $220 each for cylinders, etc. I HOPE I picked up all the components I need today and the dealer I got mine from charged $203.84 for the valve and $185.70 each for the cylinders, but by the time I got the handles, knobs, linkage kits, hoses made, fittings, etc., I spent $760+ today and now I just have to find time to see if I can install it all. Of course $69 of that was a hydraulic block for my Kubota that you wouldn't need if you use the power beyond port on your loader valve. Try the link below to contact Tisco. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-06 00:00:00 23148  Danny Hsu

Bird, You are right. I will have to order the parts thru a dealer. If you don't mind, Can you tell me what the extended lengths and bore sizes of the cylinders?I am trying to visualize the setup. I would like very much to hear from you after you install your unit and can give us a evaluation. Thanks again for all your help. Dan ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23159  mike dewald

Danny: I used to own a B7100 that had the "diverter valve". I used the valve for the loader. When the diverter is used for something else, the 3 pt. cannot be used. This would not be good for top and tilt hydraulic setup. Also if the diverter is used with an implement (ie. blade) raised on the 3 pt. it is difficult to turn the valve due to hydraulic pressure. I would strongly recommend the use of a hydraulic block attached to the Kubota hydraulic line. (My older 1984 B7100 did not have the block, but the line and block could be purchased - $168.) This allows use of an acessory hydraulic spool and yet lets you use the 3 pt. at the same time. You will be much happier not having to switch back and forth. I believe the newer B7100's have the hydraulic block in place. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23165  Danny Hsu

Mike, Right on. I have a newer B7100 and it has a hydraulic block, however, the loader is tapping into it right now. I think I can put a tee to the loader since when I am utilizing the 'Tilt and trim' at my 3ph, I am not using the loader. Am I correct? Also, I am looking at after market cylinders and control valve if I can figure out the bore and stroke of the cylinders involved. The kit from Tisco is about $861.00 and that's a bit much for me. Any suggestions? Thanks for the response and you have a nice day. Dan ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23167  Bird Senter

Danny, I'll post a message about the whole saga if and when I get my little project completed, but I've run into a couple of little snags, AND got a little snowed under with other things, but the cylinders I got are both 2" diameter. Length measurement is center of pin to center of pin, and the top link is 20" with an 8" stroke while the side link is 13.5" with a 3.5" stroke. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23174  mike dewald

Danny: Yes a "T" should work well off the hydraulic block. A separate line could then run to a spool and used for the top and tilt. I haven't tried it, but you might consider looking a cylinders from farm supply stores (Country General, TSC). If the bore, stroke and length is known (Bird's message) maybe these could be modified to fit. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23175  mike dewald

Danny: Yes a "T" should work well off the hydraulic block. A separate line could then run to a spool and used for the top and tilt. I haven't tried it, but you might consider looking a cylinders from farm supply stores (Country General, TSC). If the bore, stroke and length is known (Bird's message) maybe these could be modified to fit. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-07 00:00:00 23184  Danny Hsu

Bird, Thank you very much for the information on the bore and stroke of the cylinders. I look forward to hear from you when you get it all together. Meanwhile, I am going to explore what Mike had suggested and see if I can purchase after market cylinders and make it work. I will post my results when I get it all together. Thanks Bird and Mike for you input. Have a nice day. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-08 00:00:00 23193  TomG

I'm not sure where a t fitting would be placed. As far as I know, a 't' won't work in a line that handles open centre flow. In open centre systems, the centre has to be closed to develop pressure. With a t fitting, there always would be a leg with an open centre unless spooling valves in each leg were actuated simultaneously. If I'm missing something here, then maybe I'll learn something. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-08 00:00:00 23196  Bird Senter

Danny, I'd suggest you talk to a dealer or someone very knowledgeable about your tractor before tapping into the hydraulics. I didn't respond to the comments about putting a "T" in the line before now because I can't remember just how the hydraulics worked, type of valve, etc. on my B7100, and I can't claim to know a lot about hydraulics. However, I think TomG hit the nail on the head. I would "guess" that a "T" would work if your loader valve is a closed center (but then where does the return line go? - another "T" in the return line from the loader?). And if you have an open centered valve, does it have a power beyond port? If so, you can simply run a hose from the power beyond port on the loader valve to the new valve and a return line from the new valve to wherever the current hose from the power beyond port now goes. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-08 00:00:00 23215  mike dewald

Bird's and Tom's comments are correct. It will depend on the loader hydraulic valves and hydraulic system on the B7100 if a "T" would work. Unfortuately I don't remember the B7100 hydraulics well enough and the model I had did not have the hydraulic block. Ask your Kubota dealer. He should be able to help. I frequently ask my dealer such questions and he seems more than happy to help. You should be able to find a solution. ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-08 00:00:00 23216  Danny Hsu

Mike,TomG and Bird, Yes, I will check with the Kubota dealer before tapping into my hydraulic block or the "power beyond valve, Meanwhile, I will do more research on the matter. Thank you all for your thoughts and comments and you all have a nice day. Dan ....
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Directional Control Valve
2001-01-09 00:00:00 23230  TomG

Thought I pick up on Bird's comment that his loader lift and dump work at the same time but not the lift and curl. First thing to know is that I'm guessing about some of it. Maybe somebody who really knows this stuff will comment. As far as I know, oil flow is continuous in open centred systems, and line pressures are around 100#. Pressure is developed when a valve is actuated, which closes the centre and diverts oil to a cylinder. Valves are hooked in series, so the first valve in the line that is actuated gets all the pressure, and later valves are disabled, or nearly so. In a conventional system, only one function at a time operates, and the valve nearest the inlet on a SCV assembly takes priority. In my system, the rear hydraulic circuit is first, and when it's in use, neither the loader nor the 3ph operate. There a 'however' here, although. When a double-action cylinder receives pressure and moves, oil on the other side of the piston has to have a return path. In a two hose system, that oil would be forced into the return line on the other side of the closed centre. As such, some pressure would be developed if a later valve in the line was closed, which would allow limited operation of several functions. If one of these functions was a regenerative circuit, which are often used in loader dump circuits, the dump might work reasonably well. Regenerative circuits require pressure but little oil flow. That might explain why a lift and dump might work at the same time, but not a lift and curl.


However, I believe that in 3-hose power beyond systems, the oil pushed out of an operated cylinder does not use the open centre flow return line. The third hose provides an independent return path to the sump. So, the above idea to explain how a lift and dump might work simultaneously doesn't wash, and I believe 3-hose systems are now fairly standard. An alternative idea is that the input to a regenerative circuit uses special passages within the SCV assembly, which are fed directly from the inlet section. In such an arrangement, it wouldn't make any difference which centre in the SCV assembly was closed, the regenerative circuit always would get pressure as long as one centre was closed. This last idea is guesswork on my part, maybe it's correct or maybe somebody will offer a better explanation. Even if my guess is wrong, I hope this note help demystify hydraulics a bit for somebody. Anyway, my best guess is that Bird's loader dump is a regenerative circuit while curl is conventional.
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