Guys, I'm having a dreadful time. I'm building a new kennel, part of it is cement block and part is stick built. The stick is where I'm experiencing moisture in the walls. The out side is metal with Tyveck over OBS board. Now here is where I made my mistake. The walls are 2x6 and I put in R19 fiberglass backed insulation. After thinking about this I decided to put another layer of R19 over the original. I did not remove the paper from the original layer. I was worried about moisture in the wall so I read that I should cover the entire thing with plastic. When my son came today to apply the paneling to the walls we discovered that mold had started to form on the OSB board between the insulation and the interior of the OSB . We plan to pull away the insulation and spray down the OSB with bleach to kill the mold and also peel away the inside layer of paper.
The wall is only 2 months old, can't believe this happened so fast. Will doing what I described cure the problem? Should I remove the plastic? How do I prevent moisture from building up? What's a guy gonna do.
Pics Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NW Oregon Posts: 5548
re: wet insulation
I am not a builder but will had my 0.5 cents. Since the general rule is to put the vapor barrier plastic or insulation face on the warm side of the wall I wonder if there's a requirement that a healthy vent space be allowed between the metal siding and OSB to allow it to breathe.
I don't know if a bleach spray will be adequate, sorry. If it were me I'd tear it out but then that's real easy to say from here.
Having done hurricane rehab on the coast, bleach over time will not work. Especially with OSB being flaked material, the mold will continue to grow. And it continue to puff up ruining the steel siding. I feel the OSB behind the steel with or without a barrier is not necessary, and could harbor moisture. I would just side it with metal, insulate it without doubling up batts (if they are being compressed that actually reduces the value---needs air space), then apply plastic barrier to inside, then install paneling.
Thanks for the feedback. Taking of the OSB at this point is not an option the building is 55x20, lot of steel and board. Too costly at this point. I was worried about the steel siding, but was hoping the Tyvak would prevent problems. I am thinking of puling of the insulation, spraying with vinager solution and puting in on a new layer of r19 foil backed and then applying sheeting. What do you think Look forward to any help.
Like I tell my customers pay me now to do it right or pay me double to redo it later. The mold will--or likely has--- eat into the studs after it destroys the OSB. My pole building guide says to use plastic sheeting or 30-lb felt paper between the siding and insulation---doesn't address your situation as normally siding over OSB is redundant.
The black mold when inhaled (and a doctor warned me about even skin contact) that you get that thrives on cellulose is known for causing brain damage, permanent memory loss and even death. Think of the liability you have already exposed yourself to--- assuming your kennel is a commercial operation--now that is in the public domain. Good luck getting insurance or a claim if this comes to light.
And the mold/moisture in the wood will continue to react on the fasteners rusting them and cause the siding to rust--Tyvek is not a cure-all and is not an advisable or suitable product---it' meant to be used with breathable siding like vynil that could see some venting and allows the siding to slip or slide without creating noise.
Before you do anything contact your building inspector if he is respected and get his opinion.
Just a question drifting around in my head.
I've used and helped use Tyveck under siding and I know the builders all use the stuff, so how or why is it better than common clear plastic?
We built a small heated workshop probably 25 yrs. ago with the stud walls consisting of from the inside out.
Sheetrock
Clear plastic
Roll insulation
Chip board
Tyveck
Steel siding.
We sold that place five years ago, but far as I know the shed is still fine. I really never knew if that was the correct way but just the way the carpenter I hired did it.
Pics Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West of Toronto Posts: 1303
re: wet insulation
If you get in there and scrape and spray, you won't solve the problem but you'll get so sick you won't worry about it. It's dangerous and stubborn, so learn how to remove it properly or hire a pro.
Pics Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6383
re: wet insulation
As EW mentioned, you can spend some money and do it properly now, or a whole bunch to do it right later on, your choice.
IMHO I think the problem is two-folds, first, the double layer of insulation has formed a water trap in the walls, and second, the vapour barrier in the wall is in the wrong spot. Vapour barrier should always be between the insulation and whatever comes next. By putting the OSB next to the insulation you are actually forcing water into the OSB.
Your best solution IMHO is to pull off all the interior boards and have someone spray foam insulate the walls. The next best thing would be to remove the middle vapour barrier, spray down everything, including (lightly) the insulation, with an anti-microbial spray solution, then apply a poly vapour barrier, and finally, reinstall the OSB, but bad side in. Then you can paint the mould over with an anti-microbial stain-hiding paint such as Zinnser's B-I-N shellac-Base primer-sealer.
Frank, Tyvek and plastic have one big difference between them, Tyvek breathes but is water resistant. So if water makes it inside the siding it can't penetrate any further, but the building can still breathe. It has a unique construction that allows small amounts of air to pass, but is still wind resistant so it stops drafts.
Like I said earlier, the OSB is redundant. So why not just remove it rather than all the work and money to remove, paint and rehang only to semi seal-in the mold. If it can't completely and thoroughly dry it will be semi sealed in and continue to fester, and being OSB the flakes will swell regardless of how much paint is used. And this all may be moot if the OSB is so detiorated it may just crumble as it's removed.
wet insulation: Other Home Building -- Home Building Discussion Forum
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