#1. The designation Number is based on the mid-bucket point on the 402 and the bucket pivot pin on the 504.
#2. Loader arms on the 504 about 9" closer together.
#3. Pin spacing on bucket 2" closer together on the 504.
Would this reduce breakout force?
#4. Upper cross brace found on 402 removed on the 504.
Lift capacity is the same between the two but personally I would rather have the 402 because of the wider arm spacing and the bucket pin spacing. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
I may have placed this in the wrong category, it is Kubota specific but about FELS.
I like to keep the same vintage of attachments by model number for resale value.
Your worry over capacity is fine but I don't think it is with good reason as they have not had overall problems with their loaders like some of the makes available.
I realize that some manufactures have had issues but much of the moves were for a cleaner tighter design.
I was not "worried" about capacity but merely alerting people what I found out from the dealer. The old tried and true rule of thumb of 2.2 X Loader model number for bucket lift capacity will not apply to the new models. Kubota has gone the way of John Deere in how they arrive at model numbers. I do however maintain my position on liking the wider loader arms and that the wider pin placement will give a better breakout force given the cylinders and pressure are the same. I am open to info on the contrary if there is any to be had.
I haven't seen any that would agree with your thoughts!
I would say that it is neutral, either way would not make a noticable difference other then that you actually might find a loss in the wider stance do to the longer hoses.
The arms being closer to the tractor increases visibility.
I do however maintain my position on liking the wider loader arms and that the wider pin placement will give a better breakout force given the cylinders and pressure are the same.
I'm a little confused here, two days earlier than the above statement you asked if wider pin placement would increase breakout force. Now, without any information offered or disputed in the interim, you "maintain your position" that the wider pin placement does give better breakout force.
Can you explain how the width of the cylinder mounts could possibly change the breakout force?
#1.The designation Number is based on the mid-bucket point on the 402 and the bucket pivot pin on the 504. #2.Loader arms on the 504 about 9" closer together. #3.Pin spacing on bucket 2" closer together on the 504.Would this reduce breakout force? #4.Upper cross brace found on 402removed on the 504.Lift capacity is the same between the two but personally I would rather have the 402 because of the wider arm spacing and the bucket pin spacing.Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? I may have placed this in the wrong category, it is Kubota specific but about FELS.
I was referring to the hole spacing on the bracket, not the side to side spacing of the brackets themselves. The loader arms of course would dictate that. With the hole spacing closer your "lever" would be shorter equating for me a little less breakout force. That is how I interpret that and was looking for others opinions either contrary or the same. (I just happened to word it in a question form) When I "maintained my position" I was sticking to my interpretation. The load capacities of both loaders are nearly identical which is what the dealer told me when I asked about the new LA504 loader and used the old formula to determine capacity. (I thought they had upped the capacity). It is a change for Kubota and was merely offering that to the readers for what it was worth. MY preferences are the wider loader arms, perhaps if I have a chance to use a narrower unit such as the LA504 I will change my mind.
Ah, I misunderstood your statement, clearer now thanks.
To make a blanket statement like that however without any other information will likely result in an error.
For instance, if the distance from the pivot pin to the wrist pin (where the cylinder connects) is shortened by 2", but the bottom side of the bucket is shortened also by 2" there is no net change. However, if the pin-to-pin distance is shortened by 2" but a larger diameter cylinder is used, the net effect would be higher breakout force.
Besides which, all of this 'calculating' is quite moot IMHO since you'd be hard pressed to find any machine that can, in the real world, get anywhere near reaching the 'specifications' the manufacturers state the sales literature.
Even beyond that, the slightest difference in the system can have a huge difference in the results. As an example, if we look at a 3" hydraulic cylinder, if you apply 1,200 psi to it, it will create 8,482 pounds of push.
However, if that pressure drops by just 100 psi, to 1,100 psi, the amount of push drops to 7,775 pounds, a drop of 707 pounds of capacity.
I have put pressure gauges on 4 identical brand new machines (with sequential serial numbers even) and found over 200 psi difference in the pressure they put out at the same RPM.
I will examine the 504 bucket to see how it compares to the 402 bucket in dimensions. This was by no way a slam on Kubota, I own two. Just bringing to light some differences I found. The cross brace brought a lot of negative commentary because of the difficulty in refueling, I do not have that problem. I like both my tractors and they both have their strengths. I won't discuss that here cause it would be a different thread!
LA402 VS. LA504 loader differences: Kubota Review -- Kubota Tractors Discussion Forum
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