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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2004-08-30 94943
I spent 8 hours over the weekend completely rebuilding the software in my computer at home. We got infected with 14 different viruses and worms in a 48 hour period, and completely disabled the computer. Our internet provider had to shut us off to protect everyone else.
What in the world is going on. Can it be that people have nothing better to do with their spare time? If that knowledge and talent was put to use doing something constructive, we could start solving some pressing issues, instead of waisting other peoples time cleaning up the messes thay make. What satisfaction do these people get out of annoying people thay never know? The whole mess is a mystery to me.
It will probably be the end of the week before we get the home system up and running. I have a high schol senior that needs the machine for school. The only good I see out of this whole mess is the time my son I spend together trying to get the thing working again.
Frustrated and confused. The Beagles
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-08-30 94945
I'm having some of the same problems. I have a couple of websites and 4 e-mail addresses that direct in through my PC. We get about 750-1000 spam messages a day mixed in with actual business customers. It takes an hour or so every day to weed through the mess. Often I delete a prospective customer's message. If I'm gone for a long weekend like this past one, I have so many messages that the server overloads. This one PC's only use is on the internet, since I can't afford to be down with my business software. I had a free trial spamblocker for one month that blocked 26328 messages however it had some spyware mixed in withit and gave lots of popups. Later they wanted to sell me the spyware eliminator and popup eliminator for $29.95 each/year in addition to the spamblocker.
Wish there was some sort of hunting season allowed! ....
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 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ 
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2004-08-30 94949
I recently switched from Outlook Express email to Mozilla Thunderbird. Mozilla Thunderbird has some "learning" capability that allows you to indicate which messages are spam and then marks them that way and you get to trash them in bulk. I have found this to be a lot better than Outlook Express's filter option. I highly recommend you try it. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-30 94969
Both my laptop and desktop were infected with the BeagleAG virus (No, not OUR beagle) when Norton AntiVirus failed miserably to protect them. I'm still recovering and will go back to my non-Windows OS for email and internet. For spam our ISP implemented a home-rolled anti-spam system that works very well. Usually only 3-4 spam messages a day make it through while the blocker traps hundreds. I still have to go through and screen those messages that are quarantined but that's a lot better than downloading all of 'em. ....
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 | bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 185 Upstate, NY 
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2004-08-30 94971
It is very nasty out there right now.
Your best bet is a non Microsoft operating system; everyone is out to get Gates. I have found Suse 9 Linux very easy to install and use.
If you wish to use Microsoft, try out Spy sweeper from www.webroot.com, they are the most complete scanner out there right now.
Keep your Norton up to date - definition files.
Turn your computer off when not using
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-30 94974
Norton AV failed me even though the definition files were kept up to date with their automatic live update service. To make it worse they wouldn't provide support because I had an older version, but they were sure happy to charge me for a subscription update. Screw them. ....
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 | FERRARI
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 90 OOLTEWAH, TENNESSEE
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2004-08-30 94975
MOZILLA THUNDERBIRD is so much better than IE that once you use it, you will never go back to IE.....It is user friendly and easier and faster.... ....
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 | Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 347 New York
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2004-08-30 94976
Establishing a self maintance routine is no longer optional but mandatory. If you incorporate the Microsoft patches, latest versions of antivirus, spyware removal, software firewall you basically eliminate your vunerability and do not have to use another OS...if its not a 2004 version its outdated, would be a good rule of thumb to use. Plenty of freeware to subsitute paid subscriptions, and they work better than the 2003 versions with subscriptions. No longer an excuse not to, otherwise its your own fault for not being proactive and protect your system....not trying to be harsh, just realistic...
Duc
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 | BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 649 Central West Virginia 
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2004-08-30 94979
The history of hacking is long and interesting. What it boils down to, is that hackers believe they are "testing security" by finding flaws in networks (including the internet); even doing society a favor by pointing out these flaws, that could be used in harmful ways.
We've all been there. I think the non-MS browsers and e-mail clients are the best solution.
Bill
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 | tractor123
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 7 newton nc
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2004-08-30 94980
Hi,
Just eavesdropping on the board a bit. Perhaps you might try the free version of AVG Antivirus at Grisoft.com, and the free SpyBot available at download.com. While my computer misbehaves every few years, both products block a ton of issues, and they're both free. For the spam thing, most major internet providers have a filter in the main mailbox for the headers that you can set. Set that filter to block messages with the spamcop warning in the header, and it will kill about 90% of spam. If you don't know how that works, tech support should have a help file or be able to help by phone. I hope this helps you out a little bit. ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2004-08-30 94990
I've often wondered if the anti virus software companies hire people to create new viruses? It would or does keep them in business.
I do agree with with tractor123! AVG antivirus software is as good or better than any out there. The free version downloads new virus definitions every 14 days and watches your email for viruses. If AVG started charging for the free version today, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I've used AVG for over 2 years now and never got a virus that it didn't intercept. It will certify incoming and outgoing email virus free.
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 | oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-08-30 95005
I had allot of problem with Windows ME. Had to reconfig every two months. I have since upgraded to xp with no problems at all. I use spy bot S&D , and ad ware 6.0. I all so use the built in firewall in XP I have to say that XP is the best operating system from Microsoft at this point. DOn't go with the upgrade version spend the money on the full version and as Val as the pro version offers more protection. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-30 95020
I tip my hat to Duc for his help and introducing me to AVG Anti-virus and Zone Alarm fire wall software. Both work very well. Well worth the subsription cost. ....
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| Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 347 New York
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2004-08-30 95023
Thanks Chief for the kind words!!
Oneace,
If I can give you some advice, I would never rely on XP's firewall. Microsoft over steps their expertise and tries to be the do all of everything. Stick with the folks who know how its done right. Zonealarm ( now Checkpoint) have been the reference point for sometime. They are not the only ones of course. Once you have another software firewall shut off XP's...even XP's SP2 has a lame firewall defaulted
to the "On" setting, however its not enough...
If you want you can check your ports at www.grc.com
with the XP firewall on...the ideal result is "Stealth"
Duc
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-30 95025
I'm sure AVG and Zone Alarm are great, but the easiest way to be safe online is to not run Windows. That's like sitting at your computer with a target on your back. ....
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 | AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-08-30 95026
Since downloading AVG on my old computor, (Winn 98, pent 2) it will no longer boot up. Goes as far as the desktop picture then locks.
I guess my only fix now it to wipe it clean and reload everything? Help, help? ....
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| Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 347 New York
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2004-08-31 95035
kwschumm ,
Or you can throw out your PC alltogether !! other than that extreme, I find no reason not to run Windows...
I find using "non standard OS" like Linux tiring and overated - and it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. The fact is most people who use linux dont know they are there (but they are). I admit its difficult to configure and tweak, and I lose patientence with it. I dont make money spending long periods of time trying to make a machine work correctly - sometimes the tried and true method works best....IMHO
Duc
AV8R,
Sounds like something went wrong (obviously) I would remove the program, install "Goback" by Roxio and try it again...I have the freeware version on a few 98se machines and no problems
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| tractor123
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 7 newton nc
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2004-08-31 95043
AV8R,
You may not have to go to all that trouble. Turn off your computer, turn it back on, and after hearing a beep or seeing the last of the text before the Windows screen comes up, start tapping the F8 key at the top of your keyboard until you get a screen that has a list of modes. Choose the number next to Safe Mode and hit enter. Once Windows loads, go to the control panel, add/remove programs, and remove AVG. Once you've removed it, click start, shutdown, and there should be an option to restart in normal mode. If that doesn't work, use the F8 key again and choose normal mode. I haven't ran into that load error before, but there was a similar issue with one of the computers here (locking up when a different program ran). Defragmenting the hard drive and scandisk seemed to fix that, though I have no idea why. Keep in mind that I am just a sublevel geek and this *might* work :) ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-31 95046
As tractor123 mentioned, if you can get the computer to boot into Safe Mode; I would suggest clicking on Start, then click Run. Type msconfig in the text box, then click OK. When the System Configuration Utility box comes up, click on the start up tab, and then uncheck all the boxes except for system tray and scan registry. Click apply and then OK. When the box asking to reboot click yes. The system should reboot and boot up normal. You may have too much "stuff" selected to boot up on start up and it is overwhelming the system and memory. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-31 95055
Duc, I've programmed on non-Windows operating systems for 20+ years so have no problems with Linux, etc. The idea is to use the best tool for the job. Windows is great at office functions, games, and multimedia stuff but other products have much better security for online functions. Even if you manage to make a Windows machine secure against todays threats there will be new holes discovered tomorrow. If Linux is swiss-cheese Windows is a black hole. Yes, non-Windows systems are harder to configure and you do have to learn how to administer them. But you have to learn how to recover WHEN your windows system gets hosed and thats no fun either. In my case I'm lucky enough to have QNX on my machines and no virus has ever been written targeting that OS. ....
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 | Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2004-08-31 95088
I remember reading somewhere this summer that a bit of a hacker/virus writing war was going on. BAsically a one-upmanship to see who the best virus writer is among two rival groups/hackers. The net effect is a ton of virusses out there hitting us all. In old west days, finding the person and then using a $.10 bullet usually took care of the problem. Word gets out and the problem goes away. I love democracy, but sometimes, the old ways are pretty good. ....
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| AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-08-31 95099
Thanks for the help, everyone! I didn't know the f8 trick only the f1. Dumping the AVG did it. I've been having spyware probs that spybot, spysweeper and ad-aware couldn't fix, so...
Everytime I go online with that computor it disconnects or goes to a blank.blank add page whenever I try to change a page. Very frustrating. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-31 95102
Iowafun,
I couldn't agree more! Well said! A 10 cent bullet would fix a LOT of things like that going now. ;O) ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-08-31 95116
Update from where this started. Day 3 of the Beagles home computer re-build. Seems there has been something that "damaged" the settings on the ethernet card. Spent 45 minutes on hold from Dell Tech support, nobody ever got on line. Decided to watch the football game instead. We'll try it again tonight.
The ole' Italian blood is beginning to boil. ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-08-31 95130
I have to revise my statement. i DO NOT rely on the built in firewall. I use Norton's. Though it does annoy the hell out of me with all the continuous pop ups.
I have built my system from the ground up. And to my experience through trial and error the most expensive is not all ways the best. For instance I run an Athalon XP processor which I have Had better luck with then my previous Pent. 4. I also run a very cheap either net (lan card) with no problems. I have a 160 gig hard drive which I will never fill. The only thing I wish I would have done differently is better ram. i am only running 256 MB But that will change very soon with dual 512 MB sddr cards. My monitor is still the weak point (it is 10 years old)
Unless your main use for you PC is gaming you do not need a high dollar graphics card or sound card.
Are any of you running a Xenon processor? How are they?
One other piece of advice I have is if you open up you case do it on a non carpeted surface and ground your self out to some thing metal first. To me my computer is like a drug I am always looking to make it better faster and more aesthetically pleasing. I have a bad compu addiction and I am still very much a novice. ....
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| Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 347 New York
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2004-09-01 95238
kwschumm,
I hear you but we need to keep the focus on the typical PC user who barely have the skills to operate a PC. You throw in some basic maintance and they fall to pieces.
As for the security holes regardless of OS they all have them...never seen a security flaw on Linux? they exist and the only reason why its not ulilized is because not enough are in service to be worth the trouble. Its an open source, and the focus has been on MS products. Its there and only the few who trully master it, actually will know if there was an intrusion or not....this is not a qualification comparision by anymeans, and I respect your experiences and I try to surround myself with people with more knowledge than me all the time - its sometimes comes down to the basic which is better VHS or beta , MAC or Windows argument..again this is just my view on things
Duc
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-09-01 95257
Mac? is that the fruit based operating system? ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-09-01 95258
Ducati,
I can't argue with you. I know there is no perfectly secure OS. I think the security model of Unix-like OSs is superior to MS products, but if they're not implemented correctly by knowledgable admins it's all for naught. My philosophy has become one of profile - keep a low profile and you won't become a target.
BTW, I am a BSCS specializing in realtime and embedded systems. I've written code on a little of everything, including building control systems, FedEx's Memphis package sorting facility, medical instrumentation, laser measurement systems, nuke plants, reservation systems, kiosks, steel mills, printer manufacturing, semiconductor fabs, vehicle radiolocation and messaging systems, ski lift ticketing systems, etc. None of this stuff ran on Windows since deterministic realtime response and reliability was paramount. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-09-01 95259
Duc, your point about the 'typical' computer user is well made.
If any of you have ever listened to the Redneck humour of "Larry the Cable Guy" you will know his slant on it, he says in one routine that he bought a home computer, and what a waste of money it was, he calls it a $1500 deck of cards to play Solitare on. Sad but true.
Best of luck. ....
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| Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 347 New York
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2004-09-01 95270
kwschumm ,
Its a smaller world than people think...even the customers :) Fedex being one of those from past and present..For propriatry applications or imbedded ASIC
operations its seems like the better fit, I agree...
I like MS windows 2000 and XP, thats just me I guess. I have found it easier to create a product around that OS
that is not so dependant on custom drivers or commands to be compatible with simple devices or simple configurations. Just my own thoughts and experience nothing more than that. By creating a product for resale i need to have a clear idea who uses it, and how dependant the user will be on the provider/mfg. or will they be self sufficient (ideal)
Nowadays I stick with regional (for me) customers like financial insitutions and mfg's in the NY area...keeps my cupth full enough....
Its good to know you have extensive experience besides tractors, i will keep that in mind - you never know what opportunities arise...
peace,
duc
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-09-02 95368
The Beagles home computer has been cleansed of Original Sin, rebuilt, and back up and running. What a frustrating waist of time. We are now so protected with firewalls and anti-virus software we have about isolated ourselves from the rest of the civilized word, and hopefully the uncivilized piece.
I have to compliment the people at Dell Tech Support. Although it takes forever to get someone on the phone, once you do, they are very helpfull and call you back to make sure you have resolved any problems you had. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-09-02 95370
Congrats, Beagle. Hopefully your efforts will stave off the evil contingent for awhile. No kidding about the waste of time, it took me a few days to rebuild my desktop and restore the backups. It will take even longer when I get around to doing the laptop. The bullet theory of justice seems fitting to me right now. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-09-02 95373
The way I got hammered, we can put the rifles away and get out the shotguns!! There must be a mess of these idiots out there. Season is OPEN. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-09-09 96083
I'd like to thank those who recommended AVG for Windows as a virus checker. My laptop has been very flakey and NAV insisted it was clean. I downloaded AVG and it found a trojan horse virus right away, fixed it, and now everything is behaving normally. A big thumbs up on AVG! ....
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