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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
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2006-07-19          132404

CHECK THIS OUT..... someone is selling MY tractor on E-BAY and they don't even have the right mower deck for it and to boot BX 23's don't come with a tach.... these are my pictures from this site... I don't recall selling my tractor


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another e-bay scam

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-07-19          132408

I hope you reported it to eBay and asked them to pull the auction. eBay is becoming a sewer of scams and thefts. Now I'll have to put an eBay search on JD 4310s and keep an eye out for my tractor. Yeesh. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-19          132409

So what are you going to do? First thing I'd do is contact e-bay and second contact the US Postal Inspector--Internet Fraud Division in Detroit (seriously!) and file a complaint and put these ass---- behind bars. ....

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another e-bay scam

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-20          132431

botamac,

If what earthwrks suggest works I hope you do follow through with it. Wonder who the other pictures belogns to.
....

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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2006-07-20          132433

The first thing to do is check to see if your tractor is missing. If not, Then burn those knotheads. ....

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another e-bay scam

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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-07-20          132434

Mines Not stolen just the pictures are. It’s sad the losers take your pictures and try to sell that they don’t have…. I did e-mail e-bay we will see what happens to the ad. Now if I post picture here on T.P. I’ll write stolen on the picture. Easy to spot on other sites. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-20          132435

bota: How did you happen to find them on e-bay? And do you plan on reporting this to the USPS? This a very serious thing to let slide. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-20          132436

Bota: As of 5pm CST e-Bay has taken it off. ....

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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-07-21          132447

earthwrks

I check e-bay for Kubota prices on BX models and just happen to find the ad. As for filing a complaint with the USPS I’ll check into that today.

I’m surprised that e-bay shut down the add as quickly as they did. Now I just have to find out how to delete my pics off of T.P. so someone does not try this again. How sad :(
....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-21          132448

I wonder if there is a way for pictures to have something printed across them that might help prevent such.

There is one thing ebay is doing..sure making some of nervous about any internet buying. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-07-21          132453

If they don't use your pictures they'll use somebody elses. Looks like it's time to watermark all the pics on the net. ....

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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
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2006-07-21          132465

This guy is a real treat Duh....here we go again ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-07-21          132468

Geez, nail that sucker. I watermarked the pics of mine that might be useful to a scammer. If they want a picture of the dog they're in luck though. Maybe Dennis should automatically watermark pictures that are uploaded. ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2006-07-21          132471

The bidders should have spotted that one: Tractor ships from the United Kingdom, but seller describes it as a backhoe and "turning on a dime" both very American expressions. Landscape also looks distinctly un-British. ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-07-21          132487

The white jeep in the background of another picture also make me suspect - it's left-hand drive. So it may be an import to the UK, but highly unlikely.

The overall language in it appears to be from an American and not one that's been living in the UK for a decent period of time. Even when I was there for just 2 weeks, my language and wording changed. ....

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bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 104 Kingston, Ontario
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2006-07-21          132496

Right then...what colour were the tyres? LOL! ....

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JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-07-22          132506

That's the funny part about the ebay scam - it requires to idiots on the scammer's part: One that gets an email where the user gives away their ebay login/password, and another who can't see the auction as a fraud, and then thinks a wire transfer of their money is a good idea.

I know this argument would never hold up in court, but one wonders, if your pictures are inherently copyright - and ebay is showing/using your pictures to help them make a profit, ebay is the one who should be sued. Ebay knows they list 1000's of scam auctions daily, but they have absolutely no finincial motivation to put the systems in place to reduce/prevent it. After all, when someone gives their money to the scammer - who loses - not ebay. ....

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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
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2006-07-22          132508

Ebays Reply

For the first scam

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your report on item
#200008982878. Without members such as yourself who care about the eBay
community enough to report such activities, eBay would have a harder
time maintaining its values of honesty and integrity.

I wanted to let you know that the item you reported was associated with
a compromised eBay account.

Let me suggest a few ways the account may have been compromised:

If the user had a relatively simple password or password hint question
it is possible that a third party was able to gain access to the account
by guessing the password.

It is also possible that the user could have unknowingly provided his or
her password to another party. Some eBay members have reported receiving
messages asking for User IDs and passwords. These messages appear to
come from eBay Support, but in fact are not. eBay will never ask for
sensitive information of this nature through email.

We are equally concerned about violations on the site, and will
thoroughly investigate each report we receive. However, the details of
our actions cannot be disclosed with third party members. Please
remember that this is for the protection of all eBay users.

To see if a user id is currently registered with eBay please check their
member profile with the following web address:

http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/feedback-login.html

This page will tell you if the member is no longer registered with eBay.

Again, thank you for taking the time to write to eBay's Trust and Safety
department. I appreciate your patience and understanding in this
matter.

Sincerely,

Redd
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-22          132511

Jason: pictures, ideas, etc. are not inherently copyright. A copyright is something you have to apply for and pay for, and is only inforceable in the country in which it was filed in. If the pictures, ideas, etc. are not copyrighted and in the publice domain (eg. the net, in print), they are "public domain" meaning anyone can use them without gaining your permission. Patents and design patents fall into this category. You are right though that e-Bay has no financial interest in reducing theft other than bad PR---until someone else comes out with a similar auction service, they'll have no motivation to change. But by no means should they be sued since they cannot determine nor should they where photos come from. Bottom line: It's unfortunate thives will stoop to stealing pictures (copyrighted or not) but if you don't want them stolen or lifted, it's up to you to do "due diligence". ....

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JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-07-22          132513

I thought I remembered reading about the 'inherent copyright' a few years ago when I was working some programs that were going to require a copyright. So I checked, and per copyright.gov:

Q: Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

A: No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work...

Hence, you should register anything that might be important enough that you would want to sue.

So, even though pictures are posted in the public domain, the original author has the right to prevent their works from being used by others. The more the author does to prevent it (i.e. filing the copyright, disclaimers where the picture is posted by the author, etc.) - the more power they have along with the potential for $$$ in a lawsuit.

Simply being in a public domain does not mean the work is free for all to use as they please. For example, the John deere logo in all over the net (public domain), so I would think I used John Deere's logo for profit, John Deere's lawyers might be contacting me if they found out. Additionally, people can put protected works in a public domain either knowingly or unknowingly - so their mere presense there does not make it a free for all.

Just my opinions - as I haven't gotten my law degree yet. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-22          132515

Jason: That may be what the gov. site says but it's overly simplistic. And from my experience just not accurate---after all it stands to reason that if something is inherently copyrighted than why would you have to get copyright protection? As far as the John Deere logo, that's a whole different area of Law---that gets into trademarks, design patents, and such.

Public domain. Lets say your invention of that side winder mower you made, you wanted to patent. Guess what? You can't because you have showed the public (on the net here) this idea and it is now part of the public domain and has legally been disclosed. You can't susally patent something that has been publically disclosed. Years ago when I was designing things for an eventual patent, I had companies/individuals sign a confidential discloure agreement to prevent anyone from dislosing my ideas to anyone else. But the law and the agreement doesn't prevent them from looking at it and changing it and getting their own patent. The first things a good patent atty. will ask you "How long have had the idea? And how many people have seen it?" ....

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JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-07-22          132521

In answer to... "it stands to reason that if something is inherently copyrighted than why would you have to get copyright protection?"

I tried to make the point in my earlier post, that the more you do to protect your work, the better it is protected, and the more likely you will be able to enforce it and get compensated for the misuse of the work.

My main point was - just because you post a picture in a public domain, you are not automatically giving permission to the world to use it however they please. Likewise, just because you see an image in a public domain, it isn't yours to do what you want with it. Granted, the power of poeple to protect it or sue greatly vary from case to case, but there is an inherent copyright that may or may not hold up in court.

I agree that public domain applies more to patents as this is entirely different than copyrights.

On a side note, in today's litigious society, I'd never even consider marketing that side mount mower. Even if there was a small need out there for it, I put the odds over 95% that a lawsuit would wipe out that corporation! ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2006-07-22          132523

Earth

NO! Copyrights do NOT have to be applied for and paid for. That is the BEST way, register it with the Copyright office in Washington DC and allow them to search and be sure it is a clean copyright.
There is also what is known as a POOR MAN'S COPYRIGHT and it has been tested in the U.S. Courts and has won. been many years since I have heard about it winning, for I am no longer involved in the Industry.
Here is how a Poor Man's Copyright worked. Songwriters or even people who wanted to draw up diagrams and descriptions of their inventions etc, could do so, put the Original copies in an envelope, seal it, go to the Post Office and have them Validate the seals with their Post marks and dates, then mail it to yourself FIRST CLASS, RETURN RECIEPT REQUESTED. When you recieve it, DO NOT open it, file it in a Safe Deposit and continue on your quest. If you see YOUR Lyrics, or inventions used, all you need to do legally is provide unquestionable proof that you had the idea first. You provide the Sealed Enevelope, explain to the Judge what you did and let the Judge with witness open the Envelope. Musicains who could not afford to pay the $200 plus dollars to go thru the normal DC process, used this process and as far as I know and heard, it worked and was LEGAL. ....

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ditto95
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12 Kentucky
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2006-07-22          132524

I had the same thing happen to a tool and cutteer grinder I had sold. I reported it to ebay and they did nothing. I emailed everyone that bid on it. One gentleman emailed me back after he won it and thanked me. They wanted payment wired to them. The grinder was supposedly in London. ....

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JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-07-22          132526

ww:

While I don't doubt people have used the poor man's (c) and won, from the copyright.gov site:

Q: I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?

A: The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.

Then I guess - in any case - it always depends upon what judge you have, and who has the best lawyers - not necessarily who's right or what the law is. ....

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