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Electronics on Grand L series or 10 series deere

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BountyHunter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 33 SE Mich
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2003-08-13          61734

I see the Grand L series and the 10 series Deere look like they have incorporated more electronic gadgets on the new tractors. I dont know if that's a good thing or not. Anyone have an opinion on that? Are they going to be as bullet-proof as the previous models. I don't want to buy something that will be problematic or obsolete and unable to repair in 5-10 years.

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Electronics on Grand L series or 10 series deere

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-08-13          61737

I have had my 4410 for nearly a year now and had no issues with the electronics. It has been rained on and pressure washed a few times and still runs like a champ. I normally use compessed air to blow the dust and debry off first to prevent scratches and grit getting washed into switches and such. I would recommend parking the tractor inside or at least under cover as any tractor will weather and deteriorate if left outside and unprotected. I would think that as long as there is a demand for parts for these tractors, there will be a provider of those parts. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-13          61740

I can speak of the new Kubota's to tell you that they have had no trouble at all with their system. Kubota uses theirs not to run the tractor or change the way a tractor acts but only as an information source only to improve the operators skills and accuracy with speeds. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-13          61742

Opinions? You ask for opinions? I've got 'em. I posted a similar question prior to buying my JD 4310 (with electronics).

Tractors with electronics generally won't be as bulletproof as non-electronic models. The more stuff there is on any machine the more likely it is to break. Electronics don't work without wiring, connectors, sensors, and good properly connected power. Wiring snags and breaks, connectors corrode and become high resistance, sensors go bad, wires get crossed and shorted, etc. All of that stuff can cause failures in systems and components.

Many (most?) manufacturers are adding electronic gizmos to gain a marketing edge and differentiate their tractors from other brands. Some of the gizmos are even useful. I really like the LoadMatch feature in my JD eHydro for example. It is also likely that government air quality regulations will continue to tighten, requiring additional electronic controls to meet.

Electronics are built out of components that are manufactured by other companies. Those companies are continually introducing new components and discontinuing old ones. The average lifespan of a semiconductor product, like a microprocessor, FPGA, A/D converter, etc. can be measured in periods as short as months. When a manufacturer builds electronics into their products they are building in obsolesence. I have worked for companies that designed and built new products that included components that were end-of-lifed before the first product shipped. Obsolescence is a given.

At issue is how the tractor mfr. handles this issue.

They can buy plenty of spares ahead of time, but most don't like to tie their capital up in dead inventory.

They can sign contracts with component suppliers that guarantee a 10-year supply of parts, but that doesn't mean that the supplier won't go out of business, burn down, get robbed, merge with another company, or simply run out of old inventory. Even if none of that happens what if you need a part 20 years down the road? Getting a used one is a possibility, or maybe a third party company will design a replacement.

They can reengineer systems to use new parts as old ones become obsolete, but manufacturers don't like to do that either because they don't want to spend money on old products.

I generally don't like electronics in any product that should last a lifetime. Why did I buy a 4310 you ask?

Well, I liked it for one. Also, the 10-series electronics are pretty much limited to transmission control. I have heard (not verified) that the 4x10 eHydro transmission is largely identical to the non-electronic 4300 transmission, and there is a possibility to make it non-electronic if required. That gave me a small measure of comfort. This is harder to do with the Grand L series electronic dash, but you can always rig up a temperature guage and tach and be off and running.

Also, like many folks I may well just trade it in on a new model 5-8 years down the road so the issue would be moot for me.

Probably didn't answer your question but you did ask for opinions.
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-14          61807

The only thing you would loose is the fuel and temp gauge on a Grand L-series Kubota. The tach is not part of there intelle-center. I do agree with the down the road costs of electronics. Most all parts go up in price after a tractor is not coming down the assembly line. It just depends on how long it's been since it has. If You did have to, if you could, would you want the old 4000 series type transmission? ....

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Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 875 Michigan
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2003-08-14          61809

Ba Da Boom ! chhh you got that one right Art ! New technology and obsolecence is a part of life in our society now. Newer, faster, more gizmos. Electronics are a part of the 21 century. I agree with just about everyone on this one but mostly I my first thought is that I sure wouldnt want to leave a Grand L out side for extended periods. Give me a garage and I'll surely be a teast driver for kubota any day, Just drop one of those grand L's right in my drive way or Jd, or .... ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-14          61822

Good call Doc! When you look at the Grand L I don't see some of the trouble of some of the other units mentioned. Now in your garage is temp and humidity monitored? ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-08-14          61825

My 4410 gets kept down stairs in a basement with 2 dehumidifiers running year round and a wood stove in the winter. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-14          61830

That's livin' beter then me! Is there a fridge near by with a day bed? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-14          61831

I've never driven one of the 4000 style JD transmissions but there a lot of people that have them and you don't hear too many complaints anymore. I hear they had some major teething problems but I think JD got them fixed up. From where I'm sitting I think I'd rather have a working 4000 transmission than a broken and non-repairable intellipanel.
....

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Chief
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Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-08-14          61835

Art the fridge is definitely near by and stocked full of various beers, ales, and sodas. Got some Army cots and a hide-a-bed. ;-) ....

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Electronics on Grand L series or 10 series deere

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Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 875 Michigan
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2003-08-14          61846

I use ice cold bud as a fuel additive in mine. I dont really understand why a intelli panel would NOT be able to be repaired more or less than the electronic gizmos on any other tractor. Like it or not electronic components are the future. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-14          61849

Yep, like it or not electronics are the future.

Here is why electronics laden tractors won't be as repairable as non-electronic machines. Traditionally, the average useful lifespan of a tractor is measured in decades. If a 1970 tractor breaks you can find spares in a junkyard or, worst case, you can go to a machine shop and have spare parts fabricated for time and materials cost. The raw material is steel.

If a 2003 tractor w/electronics has a failure in, say, 2030 and you can't find replacements in a junkyard you cannot just go to a machine shop and have parts made. The raw material is probably a propietary semiconductor that may have been discontinued 25 years earlier.

Could spares be manufactured? Sure, but it could cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to reverse engineer the electronics and firmware in your tractor and then reengineer a replacement using current 2030s technology.

There may be nothing to the problem. Maybe an aftermarket company will spring up that manufacturers functional replacements using current technology. Or, it could be that spare electronics parts in todays tractor will be simply unavailable in twenty years.

Just try buying a 1984 Mostek SCU-1 microcontroller chip for example. Unlikely you'd find one, and any products that use 'em will be unrepairable if/when they fail.

We'll all have to wait 10-20 years to see how much of a problem it really is, and I probably won't care by then.
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-14          61852

I don't see that much stuff with there display to worry about. Lke I said before the only thing to loose is the Temp gauge and fuel gauge. I know they will run 8 hours when full and if the radiator is clean they don't over heat. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-08-14          61853

I am the type to wringe everything out to the bitter end. My current computer is a Dell Dimension XPS-R 400. The computer I had before this one was a Zenith Z-248, DOS OS and a blazing 8 Mhz 286 cpu. I still drive my 1987 Nissan Pulsar, still have my very first single shot 22 Montgomery Wards special I got when I was about 9 or 10. Even got my 30-06 from when I was 12 years old. My Dell is still kickin', the Zenith still worked great but nobody made software for it anymore. When Turbo Tax stopped making DOS software I had to upgrade, my Nissan still runs like a champ and gets 32 mpg although a little sluggish and long in the tooth. My guns still aim and fire true. If my 4410 holds up like these other things, I for one will be VERY satisfied. I think alot of how things last are predicate upon how they are cared for. This is so true about many things in life. I'll let my children or grand children worry about repairs on by then anyway. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-08-14          61864

All I can say is that my 40 year old MF need rewiring as little of the original remains. I am not sure the new PVC coated material is that much better than the old rubber coated material. There certainly will be a lot more to rewire on a new tractor vs the old one with two switches, lights and ignition. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-15          61880

You know they say these are the things that the customers are asking for. I can understand from the point of not knowing what to do or about what should be done. I really feel they are not a priorty in my book. Most PTO operations are meant to be done at or near full throttle. If youcan get by with less great, do so for that is an option. ....

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