Go Bottom Go Bottom

Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-06          56874

As I'm planning out the construction on my property, I want to pick yur brains regarding what to plan for in the way of fire safety.

The property is 1.5 acres in the woods at about 4000 feet. All the Pines have been removed from the property but firs, etc. still remain.

Currently there is a doublewide mobile with a steel roofed shelter built over it. There are two out buildings, wood frame and siding with steel roofs.

The plan is to turn one of the out buildings into an inlaws residence, move into it, and tear down the trailer, replacing it with a new home.

I'm about 7-10 miles from the nearest fire station. The property has a well dug into an underground stream, and there is a couple of seasonal streams within an 1/8th mile of the property. There is a pretty good sized year round stream about a third of a mile away.

Big mountain fire a couple years ago on the other side of the county. Lots of homes lost. So I want to think long and hard about this as I plan.

What can I do to help ensure my property will survive a forest fire?

Also, I'm wondering about communications. Cells phones don't work. There is a ham radio available, but I know nothing about them. I'm wondering what might be a good solution for when I'm riding the quad or the dirt bike out in the backwoods.

If an accident happened, I could never be found. What is a good 'portable', preferably low cost communicatins device for this purpose. Not sure of the capability of consumer GPS devices today. Do they have emergency response features?

My cell phone supposedly has some sort of emergency GPS feature, but I don't think there's any way of sending out a distress call on it. I think it's more for them to locate you once you call in with the cell phone.


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56879

First and most important is to remove flamable vegetation from the vicinity of the dwellings. Make sure you have a good backup generator to run the well pump if power is lost. Have the local fire dept. come out and inspect your area and give you suggestions as to better fire proof your property. Your home owners insurance can help you with this as well. Have a good accurate GPS grid coordinate & Latitude/Longitude for your location in the event that you get trapped by fire or other emergency. Use fire resistant shingles on the roof. Cell phones are a good thing but reception is not always very good. Good luck! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56902

As it turns out, I live in a very dry area of New Mexico and fire is always a danger. I also happen to be an amateur radio operator and AC5ZO is my call sign.

As said, clear the flamable stuff away from your site.

I would consider building a lake, pond or storage tank for water. A well cannot deliver enough flow for fire fighting and if the streams are not continuous, you should have your own reservoir. You obivously have a CUT or interest in one, so I would also consider a water pump for the PTO.

I think that it is also a good idea to take basic survival and first aid courses when you can.

Traveling...I drive a Hummer H2, but Jeeps, and other 4X4s will do nicely. A four stroke dirt bike will go through just about anything and gets excellent gasoline milage. My wife drives a Jeep Wrangler with some modifications.

Communications...Ham radio is a good option. Hams put up repeaters on many mountain tops. For me I can cover NM, and parts of CO, AZ, and TX with a small handheld VHF portable radio the size of a large cell phone. I can also make telephone calls through the same system from my ham radio. I don't know what the hams in your area might have put up, but it is worth a look. We even have satellites.

New GPS units have maps and are WAAS enabled for 10 ft accuracy. I paid $150 for my last handheld GPS with map and accessories. The GPS can be coupled to your ham radio to report your position to within 10 ft. This is called APRS and it works well. APRS can be coupled into the Internet and folks that you authorize can see where you are at any time from a website. This applies to emergency rescue workers. You can of course turn this off if you don't want to be tracked, but it is a good thing if you are hunting alone or off roading.

Beyond the handheld radio, I also use a shortwave transmitter that will cover my entire state and all the surrounding states with a modest antenna setup and 100W. On different shortwave frequencies, you might get coverage in your state, or you could communicate nationally and even internationally. You can even send email via the radio.

Email me directly if you need more info. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56908

A few years ago we built a house in a heavily forested area, and learned a lot. Here are some rambling thoughts.

First of all you will want to talk to the fire authorities responsible for your area. They will tell you what is required as far as clearing vegetation away from your structures, driveway requirements so they can get their equipment into the area if needed, and what the requirements are for water. They may require you to put in a retention pond for water storage and likely will have suggestions for emergency communication.

When you build you will want to consider fire prevention in your designs. For example, concrete walls are pretty fireproof. In our case we stick framed the house but used HardiPlank siding (cement-fiber siding), built our deck out of Ipe wood (this stuff is so dense it won't float, won't burn, and bugs won't eat it), and used fire rated roof shingles. I have heard that metal roofing is POOR for fire because it conducts heat so well. It may be a good idea or even code that you install fire sprinklers.

You'll want to make sure that any motorized equipment you or contractors use have spark arrestors. This was another reason I went with JD - Kubota and NH didn't have spark arrestors for their tractors. Well, Kubota said one was coming but was a month or two away. When using equipment outside during fire season you will want to make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby.

Obviously as time goes by you will have to keep the vegetation cut back. Firs grow really fast!

Best of luck with your project. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56917

I did not talk about construction before. One friend in a fire area replaced his burned house with cinder block construction. Mine is heavy stucco over frame. It will be pretty resistant to a ground fire.

Metal roofing is used in many of the wooded areas of NM. One problem with metal roofing is the amount of damage that does occur if you do get a fire, which often comes from inside the structure not outside. The metal captures the heat and transfers it laterally. The entire structure can become involved in short order and the fire fighters have a harder time opening the roof to ventilate. My house uses ceramic tile, but concrete tiles and slate are also good.

Spark arrestors are a good idea. You can add a device to any vehicle called a SuperTrapp. It is a baffle and spark arrestor arrangement that can be welded on to any exhaust pipe. They are not expensive. I have them on my dirt bikes and on a VW Baja Bug that is for offroad use.

One other point is that if you are in a fire zone, you are also in a zone where power disruption is possible or perhaps even common. A backup generator is a good idea. There are other threads here that discuss that extensively. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
plots1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 563 mo
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56921

arent them supertraps ajustable for back pressure also. I see alot of street rods running them. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56926

Yes they are adjustable. You can even get by without a muffler if they are properly set up. They use a sort of washer as a baffle and you add washers to open them up or remove washers as needed.

Generally it is better to keep them somewhat restricted to enhance low end torque and reduce the noise. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-07          57011

I live in a similar area and I am a volunteer fire fighter. Most people around here have a bunch of powder type extinguishers for structural fires and shovels for yard fires. They call us for any sizable bush fires and we call the water bomber people if we can't contain it. We don't have the training or equipment to fight structure or vehicle fires but we can keep a fire from getting to a structure.

I suppose that any water may be better than none but actually sand is probably better if only a couple of people are available. The reality of water for a bush fire is that you need 70-lbs. pressure and about that many gpm minimum to do effective suppression. The pumps that can deliver this performance are specialized and one or two people can't manage the pumps and hose.

Except at the very initial stages, you have to suppress a fire rather than put it out. Usually spraying water around the periphery for hours is required and few wells can keep up with a fire pump. However, our township acquired a 1000-gallon water tanker with a mounted fire pump last fall that has proved invaluable for initial suppression until hoses can be run from distant water sources. A few hundred gallons isn't going to do much--especially if a tank can't be refilled. The reality of living in this type area is if a structure fire gets beyond the ability of powder type extinguisher then the structure is likely to be lost before anybody with training and equipment can get to it. It also takes a lot more equipment than is feasible for most property owners to have to suppress a wild fire. Taking time to rig a hose and pump and then taking a hose inside the house is more likely to kill an untrained poorly equipped fighter than it is to save the house.

Doing a web search on forestry or wild fire fighting equipment will identify companies that sell equipment for cottage protection. I would keep in mind that it is expensive stuff and also a single person can't manage the bigger pumps and the smaller ones have limited effectiveness.

I qualify annually as a volunteer fighter and training sessions are frequent. Anything generally effective takes training and equipment. I think the best thing to do is try to get the local municipality to organize and equip a volunteer force if one doesn't exist. Also try to get the municipality to enter into agreements with nearby forces or senior governments for protection if agreements aren't already in place. You really don't want to try to save a house that's already lost and kill yourself in the trying or get trapped trying to suppress a wild fire.


....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-07          57017

I might consider a structure like our barn (see my pictures). If you use steel studs for the roof and stucco there is little to burn and the house is very well insulated. You could easily addapt the style to mission or Adobe if you wanted to stay with the south west style. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-09          57141

Thanks guys, good suggestions so far. Regarding a pond, how much water is enough?

The well water holding tank is PVC and holds about 1000 gallons. Would this be something that is usefull in a fire situation, or would something more substantial be required. What about automatic fire sprinklers? What would be required in the way of a pump and what would be required in the way of a resevoir?

Also, almost every home in the area seems to be covered with wood siding. Is there a reason why stucco isn't used? Is it problematic in some way in the colder climates. Does it not hold heat well. It seems that it would be cheaper to me than wood or synthetic siding, and much more fire resistant.

Also, regarding those new imitation roofing shingles made from concrete, how much heavier are they? Is extra structural support required? How well do they work in cold and snow climate? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-09          57147

I think insurance companies start recognizing 1000 gallons as a significant water source. At least the hotel here said they had to have a 1000-gallon source.

A thousand may make a dint in a fire confined to a building but it wouldn't go far for brush fires.
If you decide to equip yourself with water: For using dug wells, suction lines longer than 20' aren't practical. Most fire pump engines will work if suspended from a rope so a pump could be lowered to the water but the fuel lines would have to be long enough. Priming the pump would be interesting. A high volume submersible pump could lift water to a fire pump but you need a real fire pump to get adequate pressure.

For ponds and streams you have to be aware the vertical distance between the water source and fire scene. Inexpensive single-stage pumps won't support much of a head.

I'd keep in mind that standard hose crews are 5 people but we train for 3 member crews, which are sort of minimum for handling fire hose. Hoses under pressure are stiff and a bunch of gadgets go along with the pump. Essential gadgets are stranglers that clamp hose to add and take out hose lengths. One person can't manage a fire hose because one person can't clamp and hold the hose at the same time. Nozzles fly all over the place if they get loose. You also need weeping hose for the scene itself and probably a variable nozzle that goes from fogging to 1/2".

Living in fire zones is sort of like living with earthquakes. It's real good to live here and you just get used to the idea of potential disaster. If having water helps the comfort level then I'd go for it. I'm thinking of some myself. Maybe more effective than water is good building materials and even more so are wide-open spaces around the house. There may be some logic to the property and a good spot for a firebreak may be evident. Fir bush is a bugger to fight fires in and a break somewhere could be good. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-09          57153

Would just having the water resevoir for fire crews to work with be worthwhile? Is there such a thing as exterior sprinkler systems for the roof? Seems like that would make sense. If such a system were employed, I'm wondering how long timewise it would need to pump water, and how much water it would need to put on the building? How long, once a fire reaches a property, does it take before the fire has typically burned past?

Any idea why I never see any mountain homes made from stucco? I'm a bit baffled as to why they're all wood siding. Does stucco freeze and crack or something? Does it wick snow water or something? Considering how much more resistent to fire it should be, I find it's lack to be very strange.

There isn't any brush anywhere on the property and the pine trees were removed to get rid of the usual build up of pine needles on the ground, but there are still other trees close to the house. How far should they be from the building?
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-09          57183

Stucco does absorb water. It always has a barrier material between it and the wood structure. The purpose of the stucco is to provide a permanent surface over the outside of the frame. It does not require painting and it can be recovered if it cracks over time.

I have seen stucco used in cold climates. It is widely used here in NM where I live in the southern end of the Rockies. It regularly freezes here every winter. I think that some of the mountian chalets that have open wood beams on the outside are filled with stucco between the exposed beams.

I think that wood construction in the mountains is more a matter of style and availability of materials. Wood materials do certainly blend in with the surroundings. But there are other alternatives such as underground houses, rammed earth, and concrete. Stucco is a lot like concrete, but is only used as a non-load bearing coating.

The only problem that I have seen with stucco in a freezing climate is when a damaged section is left unpatched and precipitation gets between the stucco and water barrier. This liquid water can freeze and break the stucco from the inside. Undamaged stucco does not do this. (We see this in NM with the parapets used in Santa Fe construction where the stucco wraps up and over the flat roofs.) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-09          57185

Nobody has addressed your question about cement roofing shingles, so I'll give it a stab. We looked at these for our house in the woods.

Most building codes require that your house have engineering load calculations done. These are used to verify that your house won't fall down in heavy winds, heavy snows, or expected earthquake events. If you want cement roof shingles the architect/engineer must plan for it and the roof structure will be sized to handle the load. It is not a big deal or a big increase in expense to do so.

We ended up not using cement shingles for two reasons. First of all, pine/fir needles tend to build up on concrete shingles because the thickness variation in the shingles causes lots of nooks and crannies where needles can clump. These need to be cleaned off - and this is the second problem. I understand that concrete shingles are slick to walk on, and break fairly easily. That makes cleaning them off a big problem.

We ended up going with a 40-year architectural shingle and have no regrets.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-09          57186

I mentioned cement fiber siding before. I wanted to point out that they also make cement fiber siding shingles. This stuff looks great on houses in the woods. It gives a traditional shingled cottage look but it won't burn.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-09          57237

If you have swimming pool it certainly can double as a source of water for fire.

The newer stuccos are polymer modified and have plastic mats not wire. The material I used has a 30,000 psi break pressure over foam.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-10          57262

Sorry I didn't rear the original post well enough. I thought you were living in a fir forest. My comments about fire pumps still apply and might be useful.

I also didn't read that the well taps into an underground stream. If the flow is sufficient the stream itself would support a fire pump. Our pumper was filled from a spring that pools into a well half-tile about a month ago. The pumper draws water a lot faster than a portable fire pump.

I imagine fire crews in your area would certainly use a dug well, holding tank or swimming pool. They might be invaluable during an initial attack. Our volunteer force will be conducting a water source survey this summer. We want to identify the best reliable source of water for each property and map them. We will be identifying every dug well. I keep saying dug because you need the diameter of a dug casing to lower the pump and suction line to the water most times.

Irrespective of water sources, I imagine there is at least a fire safety officer in your area. It would be good to contact an officer to determine the extent of protection available. In our case, we can't fight fires in buildings, which is why I have some interest in having my own pump.

However, please don't have the idea that any amount equipment you may get is going to be completely effective against a fire front coming onto a cleared 1.5-acre area. Even when we can contain them we usually end up using three or four pumps and 20 - 30 people. You'd probably be evacuated anyway before you could set up a pump anyway.

However, a decent fire pump can add protection in a contained fire situation by spraying isolated trees and buildings. A disc for the tractor might be useful in holding a brush fire. I'd find a dealer that handles forestry wild fire equipment and ask about pumps and hose that are manageable by a single person. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-10          57273

I have identified two different types of fire threats.

If an established fire is sweeping toward you I guess all you can do is put a RainBird on the roof and run like hell.

However, we also have frequent thunderstorms, some of which produce hundreds of lightning strikes.

For that circumstance I think I can do something. During fire season I keep a pump on the rear PTO and a ready supply of water on the tractor. During actual thunderstorms I will have the waterlines all hooked up so so all I have to do is turn the key and open a valve and hit the PTO lever.

Maybe I am dreaming, but I think I have a fighting chance with 200 gallons of water against a lightning struck tree or the proverbial burning bush. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-10          57274

re: Polymer modified stucco...I have had good luck with this on my current house, but I think that conventional stucco over a wire net is still available. I had a building covered with regular stucco three years ago. I think that the wire netting and thicker coating used with regular stucco would be a benefit in a bad fire area.

You have to be careful relying on wells for fire protection in a remote area. You still need a tank, pond, or pool of some sort. If a fire is coming your way, you may not have power to run your well pump, time to get the generator going, or you might not be there to get the well running on the generator. If you have a pond, pool, or tank that you can fill slowly from your well in good times, you will have a reservoir for when things go bad. I have a fish pond in my back yard and even it has 1000 gallons in it. A jacuzzi has another few hundred gallons. This is only enough for a good start and might help if a fire front does not come directly your way. If you are directly in a path of a fire front, all you can do is wet the area down as best you can and evacuate. It is too late to clear brush and get ready when the fire is coming your way.

Over the years, I have had fires come within one hundred yards of my various homes. In each case these were on the edges and were small compared to the major blaze. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-11          57320

MarkH did a pretty good job of researching pto pumps awhile back. I don't think any of them found qualify as fire pumps and I'm not aware of any. I'm not sure why. It would be good to find a 3ph unit that develops enough pressure.

A small volume of water can put out fairly small fires but the idea is to cool the fire itself with evapouration rather than wetting fuel around the fire. To do that fogger nozzles are used. They put a fine spray over a wide area but both volume and pressure are needed. With a small tank or dug well, you'd get about a 2-minute blast and then the fire is out or it isn't. If it's not out, wetting the area around the fire probably wouldn't have put it out either. Sand may work better and fire shovels are cheaper (a regular shovel will wear you out in a hurry).

If you have fogging capabilities, wetting agents (dish-washing detergent works) would increase the effectiveness of a small water source. I still think powder type extinguishers and shovels are the best bet overall for residential use. I must have two dozen of them here and there. They will contend with small fires and by the time water is gotten to a small fire it's probably going to be a big one. A tractor with a disc on it might be pretty useful in some places as well. Brush fires are probably best left to organized fire services that have the equipment and training to utilize water effectively. We used about 12,000 gallon on the brush around a RV that burnt up along the highway recently. Even so I still might get a small fire pump self contained or pto driven. As AC said, fire fighting and electricity don't go together.


....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-11          57332

Tom, what makes a fire shovel different and where do we find one?

FYI, my PTO pump produces 24 GPM at 400 PSI and makes an impressive cloud of mist. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-11          57337

Mark,
What pump are you using? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-11          57341

Here is the link, or search Northern Tool for product # 385. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-11          57345

That looks like a good pump. I did not check Northern, but I did find some sources for fogger nozzles that will work on a standard garden hose.

I looked up forestry firefighting shovels and they said that they were "sharpened on all edges" and they appeared to be more "pointy" like an arrowhead than my regular shovels. When I see the guys fighting fires around here, they all use an implement that looks like a three or four tooth rake with a hoe on the back side. I don't remember the proper name. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-11          57373

Thanks Mark! I'll definitely check the pump further. Sounds like the pressure is pretty good but the flow could be greater. No matter I haven't seen anything that comes close at a price I'd consider.

Our fire shovels are sharpened on one side only (they don't come that way). They can be used to cut fair sized saplings and branches. The blades are different shaped and smaller than a regular shovel so you're not pitching as much weight. Most important is that the blade and handle is at an angle that is better for pitching sand than regular shovels.

The link below goes to a catalogue that contains other hand tools, pumps etc. It is a company that has dealers in my area. A web search on 'Forestry or Wildfire Fighting Equipment' probably will find closer dealers. Web searches now are regionalized. We use fire hoes, Mcleod, and Pulaski tools and 5-gallon hand backpacks. Backpack pumps and shovels can be used for attack. The others are more useful for making fire breaks, grubbing and mopping up.

I was at fire meeting this evening and accidentally found out that I better turn my powder extinguishers over and bounce them around a bit. The power compacts over time and an old one may provide a blast of air and no powder.
....


Link:   

Click Here


 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-12          57404

Tom and AC, The pump is manufactured in Italy and appears to be very well made. Based what I can tell from its design it will deliver 24 GPM with an open ended hose. When you restrict the outflow it responds by increasing the pressure and still delivers the same 24 GPM.

I have tried to use some schedule 80 PVC couplers as quick connects for the output hose but when the tractor hits about 1500 rpm the coupler just uncouples. It is not damaged, it just expands its locking collar and blows off the pump. The pump works fine as long as I stick with metal fittings.

The "Mist Cloud" setting is achieved by running the tractor at 75 percent of PTO speed or more and using a solid brass nozzle with a 1/4 inch orifice, which is included in the purchase price. At PTO idle speed the same nozzle will strip paint off of a building or clean off a cement slab like nothing you have ever seen. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-12          57418

Thanks for the link, Tom.

The McLeod rake/fire tool is the name of the tool that I always see the wildfire fighters using around here.

I will order one of those pumps. They are on Backorder now. Based on the time (2 minutes)that Tom referred to before and the flow rate of the pump, it might make sense with a 50-100 gallon tank on the tractor 3PH. I know that it is not a lot of water, but you can carry it where you need it and it sure would beat those backpack units from the same wildfire equipment website. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-13          57469

AC: I really meant that a several hundred gallon tank would give about 2-minutes of pumping with our Wojax pumps rather than meaning that two minutes pumping is a target for putting out fires. For tanks, you'd almost always empty them no matter what and more water is always better. Hope that's the way I was taken to mean.

When checking out Marks pump, I'll be curious to figure how it works. It's really great if it maintains flow irrespective of pressure. Our straight bore nozzles have adapters that give 1/2, 3/8 or 1/4" bores. Smaller nozzles give higher pressures but also less flow. The only times we use smaller nozzles is for long hose runs where the larger nozzles don't produce enough pressure. Actual fire hose and couplers probably are available for the outlet size of the pump and it might be good to have some. Actual fire hose can be field patched.

True fogging nozzles are available but I don't know how much flow is required to use them effectively. Fogging can be used for direct attack and the idea is to evapourate a lot of water as fast as possible to cool the burn below kindling temp. If the effect isn't sufficient, the fire just flares back up. You have to make a judgment because if direct attack doesn't work, spraying water on a fire is just wasting it and the time it takes as well.

I'll check further on wetting agents because they might be very good for people with limited water sources who are actually equipped for direct attack only. I think the idea is that the wetting agent keeps the droplets smaller, which produces quicker evapouration. Some detergent in a tank could make the difference between controlling or not controlling a small fire.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57482

I should probably add something to the "ready" tank to keep it from growing algae anyway, and the detergent is a good idea too.

The Deere 4100 is the designated fire engine and I have scaled back from last year in terms of water capacity. Last year I had 55 to 110 gallons on the three point hitch and 225 gallons on a trailer. That was too much for this size tractor on my land.

This year I have 65 gallons on the back of the tractor and 125 on a trailer.

A bigger tractor, like a larger Boomer could easily carry more water, even on tricky terrain. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57484

I've been lurking on the sides following this post. While I don't feel I have any experience with fire zones, other than the airtight stoves and fireplaces I have, I can't help thinking one small item has been overlooked.

I have seen many TV programs, etc., about fires and how they spread. I understand, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here, but I understand that most homes that are lost to fire in a situation like this are from wind carried sparks setting the roof, etc., on fire which consumes the rest of the structure.

If this is in fact the case, why wouldn't these homes be roofed & clad with steel sheet product. Modern technology & coatings have resulted in products which VERY realistically replicate any 'traditional' products such as cedar shakes, board & batten siding, to name just a few.

I would think this is a VERY fire-retardant product.

Did I miss something here?

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57486

My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but when we built in the boonies I discovered through research that metal roofs are not particulary good in fire areas. Metal is a great conductor of heat, so if burning materials land on a metal roof the heat transfer can ignite the wood framing below. A fire resistant roofing material that provides a degree of insulation is better. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57487

I don't think you are missing a thing. There has to be a multi layered approach.

My little tank and pump are all about dealing with lightning caused fires on or adjacent to the property. It is intended to buy some time until the fire department can get here, which is about 15 minutes. My plan is to resort to a shovel when I run out of water.

I guess for an established/moving fire all I can do is use it to keep the roof wet.

I have a badly configured house for these circumstances as it has a cedar shake roof and wood siding. We are working on exactly what you are pointing out Murf.... a metal roof and fire resistant siding. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57506

When I put a metal roofing product on my 100+ year old cottage I also needed/wanted to put insulation below it. The manufacturer said to strap the existing roof with metal studs, the 2x4" type they use for construction now, fill each stud with a strip of, and then put slabs of 2" of Styrofoam SM between them. He said "That's the way they do for fire protection." He claims the Styrofoam will stop the heat transfer enough to prevent spontaneous combustion of the structure below it.

I would think that some form of thermal barrier (scraps of cement board) between the two metal products, roofing & studs, would further stop any thermal transfer.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57510

I put on a roof several years ago that was metal but looks somewhat like ceramic tile. It was called Sierra Tile. In that installation they layed down 2X2s in a pattern like you might lay down a shake roof structure and then filled the space in between with fiberglass batting. The 2X2s were put right down over the old cedar shakes.

Firemen complained about Sierra Tile and other metal roofs because they held in heat with a structure fire and damage was higher when a fire did occur, but certainly the metal "tiles" were better than cedar shake to keep a fire from starting in the first place. So, it may depend upon whether the danger of a fire starting is greater from within or outside the house wall perimeter.

Certainly sparks on a roof are a problems. But it also makes sense to clear the fuel away from the house. I have seen a lot of structure fires where the fire went up a hillside and the structures that were on fire were burning on the walls, soffets, and eaves but the roof was still intact.

Tom, I misinterpreted your meaning. I thought that you were saying that generally you could knock down a small fire in a couple of minutes with a fogger. Now I understand what you mean. I have found fogger nozzles that are made with 3/4 hose thread that claim to be able to go from a single stream to fog. Flow is not specified.

I have not seen it, but I expect that Mark's pump is what is called a positive displacement pump. A PD pump with good tolerances is a fixed flow device like a hydraulic pump and it develops pressure based on the nozzle, orifice, etc. A lot of water pumps are centrifugal and will vary in flow inversely according to pressure.

Mark, having lived in fire and earthquake areas for a long time, I used to keep barrels of drinking water from going bad with Clorox. You use 1.5 TSP of Clorox for each gallon of water. That amounts to about three cups of Clorox for a 55 gal drum. This will keep the water drinkable for over a year if sealed and less if vented. The water tasts of chlorine but is safe to drink. This should work for your fire water supply also. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57514

Ac, thanks. I knew that but forgot the correct ratios. If you pour the stored water through a carbon filter it should resolve the taste issue. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
plots1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 563 mo
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57519

I've was wondering how to keep water drinkable for some time, thanks for the tip AC5ZO! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-13          57535

Use regular old Clorox; not the scented stuff. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-14          57587

My folks were in a brush fire in California that burnt houses to wiothin a block. It didn't take them long after that to take off the shake roof and put on a tile one at considerable expense. Attractive and incombustible (not withstanding the walls and very wide-eaves mentioned). I never was sure how I felt about having that much weight over my head in an earthquake area though.

AC: The two minutes idea still may be a pretty good target. I think the reality is that direct attack has to be successful in a very short time or it's not going to work. We have two 1.5" hoses mounted on our pumper with fogger nozzles just in case we can knock one down. More frequently a fire is established when we get to it and we use 'surround and drown' techniques that require more water and pumped over longer periods.

Thanks for the pump explanation--that's what it probably is. I do think that 28gpm is pretty small high pressure or not to be really effective for direct attack. However, the pump is what I'll likely end up with if I can't find a bigger one that's priced around $500.

It might be worth noting that our Volunteer Dept. also has to deal with low flow water sources and you can't drive the pumper close enough to many sources anyway. We purchased a folding 1,500-gallon water tank. The idea is that a portable pump fills the tank continuously and the pumper pumps from the tank. However, this type of thing probably is what fire services rather than individuals should have.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-15          57711

re tile roofing...The extra weight has to be accounted for in the design. Some structures are not suitable for certamic tile roofing without reinforcement. Lightweight concrete tile and Sierra Tile don't add the same amount of weight and can be put on most structures. Having a ceramic tile roof is certainly less dangerous than a second floor with respect to earthquake safety.

When you look at the wildfire fighting catalogs, you see self contained backpacks, axes, hoes, and shovels. Having an apparatus that you can carry on the 3PH that will give you 50-100 gallons that can be used in a hurry has to be a benefit, especially if that water can be put on the fire in the first minutes.

Water tanks are common in some areas. In the California desert, for example, you cannot find suitable water and many of the cabins have tanks of several thousand gallons for holding water that is delivered by truck. These tanks are not all that expensive and would certainly be a benefit to safety when firefighting is concerned. Even though the original post addressed having a well tapped into an underground river, the delivery rate might only be a few gallons per minute. However, even at that rate, it would only take a day or two to completely fill a 10,000 gallon tank. This is enough to make a difference.

I lived in Laguna Hills California when the Laguna Fire hit in the late 1980s. I don't remember what started the fire, but it was sustained by overgrown vegitation, poor access to properties, dry winds, and houses that were not fire resistant construction. Many people did not learn from this and built similar structures to replace the old.

Most of New Mexico where I live now is subject to wildfire. But the style of the housing is different here. My house like many others is stucco on the exterior and has a flat roof with no eaves. Many of the roofs are covered with stone. There are just very few ways for a passing fire to attack this type of structure. Adobe brick construction is even more fire resistant. Only the entry doors are wood, and on my out buildings, the doors are steel. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-15          57716

Great stuff so far, keep it coming.

I've been looking into auxillary water tanks. The existing tank is 1000 gallons. 3000-5000 gallon tanks can be had for $1k-$2K. It would be really easy to add a second tank, since everything is there already for the first tank. Just tie them together somewhere below the high water mark of the first tank.

The steel roofs on the outbuildings are over wood, and replacing them would be a hassle. So seeing as steel offers good fire resistance but keeps heat in from internal fire I guess the answer is to try and keep the building from fire internally or from underneath (exterior walls).

The existing exterior is wood, so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on just covering the existing wood siding with a concrete siding product or stucco, and enclosing the eaves. Along with the stell roof, would this offer pretty good resistance to a fire storm? I'm already planning on installing steel entry doors, so I need to think about windows too. Perhaps some sort of steel storm covers.

Would installing some sort of rooftop mounted sprinkler system pump fed from the aux tank be of any help in a fire storm? Something I could have turn on automatically as the fire approches? Then hopefully have run long enough for the main fire to burn past. How long would that typically be? 30 minutes, an hour, more?
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-15          57717

BTW,

The Laguna Fires were started by arsonists. Sick! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-15          57719

Water storage is good.

You have gotten me thinking that it would make sense to have more standby water. If I just rearrange the tanks I have I can have another 335 gallons standing by in addition to the 190 gallons on or about the Official Homeowners Fire Engine, aka the Deere 4100.

My well pump can produce 12-13 GPM, but if I have standby tanks I can refill my tractor tanks at 24 GPM using the PTO pump.

I know. I know. I am probably urinating into the prevailing breeze. But to paraphrase a line from The Wild Bunch, It beats the hell out of standing there with my thumb up my a-- and a bag full of holes in my hand. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-16          57755

Most wildfires are caused by humans in one way or another.

Water storage is always a good thing. It helps if you have a well pump problem and by providing a reserve for fires. You may be urinating into the prevailing breeze, but I would rather do that than watch fire approach my house without a fight. If I do my best and can't save it, I am still going to sleep well at night.

Clearing burnable litter, brush and trees away from buildings is more important than making the eaves fireproof. The metal roof is good for preventing sparks from catching. Stucco wall covering is good for the same reason. Not much of anything is going to help if the trees around your homesite are engulfed in flames and will fall on and around your buildings.

"Chance favors the prepared mind." L.Pasteur
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-16          57762

There in lies the biggest dilemna!

The trees! I don't want to turn my mountain palace into a desert oasis by removing all the trees and thus beauty/shade along with them. Yet, I don't want them becoming fire magnets for my buildings.

It's like deciding to live with the enemy. This is the part I have to think long and hard about. Several of the trees on my property are 60' or better in height, and I'd hate to lose them. The low stuff, brush, pine needles, retc. is easy to get rid of, but those trees are pretty nice!

Also, there are a lot of tall trees off of my property that either belong to the lumber company, the state, or my neighbors. I have little or no control over those.

I guess that during dry years I could try to keep the trees well watered, but I have no idea how much watering is required for that, or if that's a ridiculous idea. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-16          57778

I think watering trees helps if the fire is in the ground litter and brush. If you have a tree canopy fire, watering some trees will not help much. The trees get so hot so fast, that they explode.

I understand the dilema. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57823

There has been a lot of good information about equipment and materials here. In addition to the information, I think it might be good to contact the nearest fire service. They almost certainly have recommendations for building materials and fire prevention techniques for the area.

They also might make a property inspection and make recommendations. There are some fairly simple storage, clearing and pruning things that will reduce risks. They also could describe the levels of service that can be expected from the responding fire service for the area. There's no need for individuals to try and duplicate what a fire service will do, and likely do far better than any individual can anyway. If it's a volunteer force, you might consider joining it. It'd be educational and a good way to meet new neighbours.

I'd also keep in mind that not every wild fire turns into a crown fire. If one does occur, there's little an individual can do about it other than leave and no amount of planning and equipment will make a lot of difference. I sure wouldn't cut down our trees to cover a risk that's probably in the order of lightning or earthquakes 'cause it sure would mess up the reasons for us being here. I'd guess that far more rural homes are lost due to poor property management, amateur wiring and wood stoves than wild fires anyway, and those are things that something can be done about.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-17          57838

The risk of a crown or canopy fire is certainly dependent on where you live and drought conditions. I live in the Southwest US and I can guarantee that we will have a canopy fire somewhere in my state this year. We are in a drought and the conifer trees have plenty of resin and not much resistance to fire.

We get quite a few fires caused by lightning, but most are still man made from "controlled burns", smoking, arson, and negligence. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-25          58290

Yesterday, we had a pretty big fire in New Mexico. Actually there were three significant fires plus the even larger fire in SE Arizona.

I was involved through the Amateur Radio in some of the emergency communications activities. I had an aircraft radio in one hand, a ham radio in another, Channel 13 TV on in the background, and my wife trying to tell me what was going on all at the same time.

I saw one house in particular that had not cleared brush for some time. The fire burned right up the brush trail to the side of the house. The house was stucco and the fire did not take the house even though there was some major charring and soot on the exterior wall. The roof was a combination of metal sloped and flat tar/gravel.

The only house that burned was one that was under construction and it was unprotected wood framing.

This fire traveled up the Rio Grande river basin for over a mile and jumped from one side of the river to the other. We got rain earlier in the year and that caused a lot of small plants to grow, then it went dry and all the little plants died. The trees are dry and but the fire was carried by the low brushy plants. Occasionally it would break into the canopy, but not often.

Natural selection would have dictated that we let it burn and then the problem would not be upon us for another 20 years. But, people have built expensive houses in the area and now they put out every fire, but they do not clear the brush that fuels the fire in the first place. Perhaps now the local government will wake up and realize that THEY have been allowing this situation to get out of control. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-26          58350

I've been reading about those fires. There are some good ones to the west of us as well and we're expecting to get fire calls here anytime. I used to send messages home through the MARS network. I think that amateur civilian as well as military operators were involved. The network did provide essential services sometimes. I hope MARS still is operating. I noticed a magazine article I haven't gotten around to reading yet is about the fight or let it burn issue. It is a complicated one.

Clearing brush is important. Most people around here keep a sizable cleared area around there houses simple to keep down the bugs but many of the cottages around here are pretty brushy.

We had fire training last night. Seems like Council has been spending money. Both the new portable 1,500-gallon tank as well as a foam injector was on hand. The foam injector is supposed to produce a huge increase in the effectiveness of water and its use will be standard on our 750-gallon pumper truck. At this point I don't know the cost of the injector or required pressures. The foam itself is expensive although a 1/10th of a percent is a typical mixture. These things might be worth checking out for people with fire pumps but limited water sources.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-26          58359

MARS (Military Affiliate Radio System) is still in operation. I used to be a member of MARS, but now I turn my attention to the local emergency centers. It turns out that in many situations Federal, State and Local fire and police cannot communicate with one another and the Radio Amateurs fill that void. Amateur only refers to the point that we aren't paid for our actions, because we set up digital communication links, voice links and other forms of modern communication over vast distances.

We had another big fire last night. About three hundred acres burned right in the middle of housing. There were no structures lost due to the types of construction and the actions of the fire fighters. This fire was arson. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-27          58409

AC: Somehow I figured you'd know about MARS and I'm happy to hear that it's still going. I knew about it because I was custodian of equipment of interest to a sergeant who ran a base MARS station where I was. Its use saved me some long-distance calls, which was important back in the days when a mid-level barracks living grunt's paycheck was around $60 and before long-distance rates fell. Most uses were a little more critical than mine.

The station had first choice of any surplused equipment and the sergeant was a scrounger without equal. From the whole house of equipment he had, he would have been capable of establishing a pretty amazing communications centre for the times. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Living in the Fire Zone

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-27          58422

I'm not going to let my wife read this thread. She already thinks all men are from Mars and you guys are making it worse. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


  Go Top Go Top

Share This
Share This







Member Login