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Pulling logs with my JD4310

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Ardician
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 59 Evergreen, Alabama
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2004-10-20          98886

My overgrown, heavily wooded 5 acres is a victim of Hurricane Ivan. I need to pull out many large logs (12" to 36" dia.) with my brand new John Deere 4310 (4wd, 12/12 power reverser, industrial tires, JD 420 loader). I plan to cut the downed trees to 8 to 16 foot logs and move them to a cleared area for milling with portable sawmill. Any suggestions for implements and methods?

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2004-10-21          98892

Unless your ground is dry you will have to use chains. Get some practice with the smaller stuff first. I am not sure if you will be able to pull a 36" x 8' log that is a lot of weight.

I always use a 3ph drawbar so I can get some weight transfer. 36" would just roll over a lay there.

What ever you do go slow. BAD Things can happen very quickly with that much weight on a chain back there and a small tractor in front.

Good Luck Harvey ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2004-10-21          98893

Pulling logs is risky business with any tractor, so go slow and be real alert. Your 4310 will pull the 12 inchers, but a anything much bigger will overwhelm a tractor that size. If you know someone with a heavy duty winch on a tow truck would seem like a much safer method to move those big ones. Frank. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-10-21          98896

The use of a skidder
http://www.baker-online.com/IMAGES/Log_Skidder/Log-SkidderGrey.jpg
or a skid plate; something to reduce the resistance the "nose" of the log will encounter while being dragged forward.

//greg// ....

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Ardician
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 59 Evergreen, Alabama
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2004-10-21          98900

Thanks for the replies. I will start slowly with smaller logs and see how it goes. I think the drawbar between the two lower points of the 3ph along with a chain may be enough to get the nose of the log up out of the dirt for dragging. If this fails, the Baker "log skidder" attachment looks promising. I will keep you posted, and send me more ideas if you have them. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-10-21          98902

Ardician, I agree with everything said above. I would guess that you would be able to skid the 12" to 24" logs if you have a good surface. But as others have said, 36" diameter logs will probably be too large. A 36" hardwood log 8" long would weigh more than 3600 lbs assuming it had the density of water. A sixteen footer would of course be double the weight.

On the other hand, each 36" log could be worth quite a bit so it might be worth it to look into alternative means to winch them out.
Have fun, Dave ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-10-21          98913

Ardician, if you have a drawbar of the type that goes between the two lower arms, use that AND the fixed drawbar beneath the PTO.

The way to do it is to put a chain around the log base and forwards to the lower drawbar such that the tractor end of the log is just behind the upper drawbar and there is very little slack in the chain. Nowput either the leftover chain, or a second chain, between the end of the log and the upper drawbar with the 3pth down low nearly touching the log. Theen you lift the 3pth a LITTLE bit and lift the lead edge of the log up off the ground just slightly, but the actual forward pull will still be from the lower drawbar.

Since the lower drawbar is below the centerline of the axle, any sudden increase in the load from the log will NOT tend to lift the front of the tractor.

USe EXTREME caution when pulling anything with the tractor, even more so a log or other object like that. A downhill could cause the log to rear-end you. The second chain to the upper drawbar should do a lot to prevent it. Also be sure that any 'spectators' are WELL away from the work area, a log can and WILL roll sideways suddenly if that is the path of least resistance.

Best of luck.

....

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Ardician
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2004-10-22          98987

Thanks again for the helpful ideas. I am new to discussion boards and was unsure how it would go. I checked more closely today and I think I've overestimated the size range of my logs. There may be one or two poplars that are 36" at the butt, but most of the trees are no bigger than about 24"-30" at the butt. Most were hundred year old, hundred foot tall (at least) pines and I am still depressed at having lost them. To make matters worse, timber prices have dropped to almost nothing with the glut of storm timber around here. Also, professional timber crews are next to impossible to get right now for a small tract like mine. I just hate to see them rot, thus my idea of buying the tractor and salvaging them myself in my spare time. After all, I need lumber for a tractor shed!

Murf, your idea makes good sense to me, and I think that is the method I will try first. Have to clear and bush hog a good bit first so I can manuever. A farmer friend of mine, who reported that he once used a tractor in a pulpwooding operation to little or no profit, warned me about smaller limbs and bushes damaging the hoses, fittings, and wiring harnesses on the underside of the tractor. He said my tractor is a great machine but should be used for what it was designed for and not what I am about to attempt. Of course I am not going to back off, but I am going to take it slow. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-10-22          99002

Ardician,it's pretty safe to say that CUTs were not designed for any one thing in particular but will typically do many jobs for us even if they take a little more time than a machine intended for one purpose. Limbs and brush can be a problem but if you're careful, you shouldn't be ripping any hoses off.

I have skidded over 26" diameter pine logs with my 9N Ford using the basic method Murf described and the Ford is maybe half the tractor your JD is. Just keep up your concentration while you're working and go slow. You can never have too much extra lumber around.
Dave ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-10-22          99003

I posted this yesterday and I don't know what happpened to it. Anyway, here it is again.

I have a 4410 that I use to pull and skid logs with. Usually from log pile left by loggers. Trust me on this........you and I are in no danger of putting log skidders out of business with our CUT's. ;O) I found that I can pull trees as large as maybe 18 inches (entire tree) and perhaps upto 24 inches if I cut the tree down to size light enough to skid. It requires that I add as much ballast weight as is possible as the tires will just spin when you try a tree to heavy. Even in 4WD I find traction is not what you would think but within reasonable limits you can skid trees.

I use a choker cable or as the loggers call them, cat chokers. I purchased mine from Bailey's Logging Supply. They come in various lengths and diameter cables and you can have them make custom length cables as well. I had them make me a 100 ft. choker cable for pulling logs out of log piles and up slopes too steep to take the tractor on. I installed a trailer hitch ball on the draw bar on my tractor and put the choker cable on the ball. This method seems to work pretty well and when I have pulled the log to where I want; I back up slightly and the cable will drop off the hitch ball. Just take your time and go SLOW. Avoid pulling logs down steep slopes as they can slide into the tractor or worse.

Below is a link to the choker cables I use. I prefer the 9/16" x 10' for heavy stuff and the 1/2" x 8' for smaller diameter trees. If you try to skid a really small diameter tree with a thick cable; the cable can become bent or formed to the small tree whichs makes it a PIA to roll up the cable later when done. ....


Link:   Chokers & Winchlines

 
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-10-22          99004

I would also STRONGLY recommend you install the Deere Rental Upgrade Kit or skid plate kit on your 4310 as it is not too difficult to snag the 4WD engagement solenoid wires and tear them out of the solenoids.

The Skid Plate Kit part # is LVB25453 and lists for $312 when purchased with the tractor and $374.40 when purchased individually. ....


Link:   Skid Plate Kit

 
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-10-22          99005

Almost forgot! If you have the MMM installed the skid plate kit is not compatible with the MMM kit installed. This mean not only will you have to remove the MMM but all of the MMM mount frame, arms, and hydraulics as well. It didn't look like you have a MMM installed from the looks of your profile so it should not be an issue. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-10-22          99007

My dad and I cleared a large woods dragging logs as Murf has mentioned, although we used a larger tractor. If you use a short length of chain and wrap it around the log several times such that hooks are placed at 4 to 5 o'clock position and 7 to 8 o'clock when you lift the log, it will not roll on you. That helps allot with stability and is much safer. Also when starting to pull, have your tractor at 15 to 45 degrees from the axis of the log. The first few feet of pull causes the log to pivot at the trailing edge so you are only pulling some of the log which weighs lots less. Secondly this is good since the curvature of the log is sliding on the ground causing less interference (ie: like if you need to pull the log over a short stump, etc.). If you pull it a distance and the leading edge digs in as was discussed. Rehook it at an angle for a fresh start. Also take a 4" x 4" x 6' and cut a shallow/ long wedge out of it with a chain saw. Place the wedge under the log about where you want to hook the chain and bump the log sideways with your loader about 2-3' so you can slip the chain under. That way you won't get your fingers pinched. Up-north we always worked in the woods during winter months using frost/frozen ground to our advantage. LOL ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-10-22          99012

"Up-north we always worked in the woods during winter months using frost/frozen ground to our advantage. LOL "

I was going to suggest winter logging but he'll have to wait a long time till Alabama freezes over. :-)
Dave ....

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yooperpete
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2004-10-22          99014

Yes, I know. Just threw that in for the novices reading this thread for extra info. That's why I mentioned "Up-North". ....

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Ardician
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 59 Evergreen, Alabama
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2004-10-25          99196

Great ideas. I was gone with family for the weekend so still haven't tried anything yet with my logs. Chief, I checked out the choker cables that you suggested and was impressed with the idea and by how inexpensive they are (cheaper than the chain I just bought at Lowes), so I ordered a couple. I browsed for more info on the skidplate kit you suggested and it appears that it is "obsolete", whatever that means. I will check with my dealer tomorrow, but I'm a little hesitant to lay out that kind of money. I'm hoping that if I clear carefully and take it slow that I won't need it. Dave's message was encouraging in this regard.

Yooperpete, good idea about the 4x4 pt wedge to get the log up enough to get the chain under. Anybody ever used a cant hook? I saw them on the same website that Chief gave me for the choker cables. Looks pretty handy for rolling logs and I think you could roll the log on to the chain. More expensive than a 4x4 though. Speaking of handy but expensive, check out the grapple implement at the website listed below. My wife put her foot down when she got a look at this. Guess I'll be working with chains and cables.
RDCN ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-10-25          99214

Ardician, yes the skid plate kit is listed as obsolete but you can still purchase the kit. My dealer got it for me for $312 plus about $20 shipping. If your dealer can't bet it for you let me know and I can put you in touch with Ricky and he can have it drop shipped to you. I have not installed my skid plate kit yet either. I purchased it for when I get started with some heavy brush hogging next Spring. Good luck on the log skidding. ....

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JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2004-10-26          99329

this discusion has been around before,DO NOT DO IT,that piece of 3000 lb lumber out weighs you,if that rolls sideways you are going with it !!!!!
the log is 36 inches ? yours is 61 at best
no weight - no side leverage(wheel width) = LUMBER FOR YOUR COFFIN ....

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BrendonN
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 89 Central Kansas
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2004-10-27          99337

I do not know how I would fell trees and move logs anymore without the PTO winch on the front of my '61 Scout. If one has a lot of such work to do, I would highly recommend investing in a good winch, either for truck or tractor mounting. I have seen 3-point mounted winches that are designed for logging and look like they would do a nice job. Probably a little pricey, though. ....

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Ardician
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 59 Evergreen, Alabama
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2004-10-27          99370

Chief, are you going to install the skidplate kit yourself? I am handy with tools (mostly woodworking) but no mechanic. Will installation of the kit require more than following "bolt-on" instructions?

Today I received the logging chokers you suggested and realized that I ordered the wrong thing. What I got has ferrules at both ends of the wire rope. I think I should have gotten the ones with a loop at one end for easy connection to the tractor. Any advice on how I might easily and safely connect these or should I exchange? ....

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Chief
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2004-10-27          99371

Ardician, I will install it myself if and when I remove the MMM assembly at a later date to start rotary cutting. Kwschumm installed his own and I am sure he could pass along first hand tips and details. You will need some large wrenches and a big 1/2 drive or 3/4 inch drive torque wrench. Maybe air tools if you have them but not required. Pretty much follow the instructions and bolt it on with the drilling of 2 holes I believe.

With the cost of shipping, you may want to just order the choker cables you wanted and hang on to the cables you have to use as extension cables if you need a longer length of choker cable to skid with. You may be able to call them at the story and see if they can make you a small piece of cable that can be used to make a loop end on the ferril thimble ends. Might or might not be possible. It takes some special hydraulic swagging equipment to swage the ferril ends on the cable. No way you could do that. You may have to bite the bullet and exchange. Just be sure to ALWAYS wear good, thick, leather gloves when handling this cables. They can really put a hurtin' on your hands if you snag a piece of cable wire. ....

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Ardician
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2004-10-27          99372

Most of my logs are going to be from trees measuring closer to 24" at the butt end. I am not planning to drag whole trees or really long logs. I intend to cut the trees into logs ranging from 8' up to 16', depending on how the skidding goes, and believe me, I am going to start with the smallest (12" diameter, 8' long) to develop some technique, and move very slowly. The largest (two 36" tulip poplars) may have to be sawn into lumber right where they lay. I really don't want to see them rot, but I'm not going to risk a catastrophe to save them. The point about my CUT being no match for a rolling 36" log is well taken. ....

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Ardician
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2004-10-27          99374

Thanks for the idea. I may do some surfing for 3pth mounted pto winches later, but I suspect that I really need to get the nose end of the log up off the ground to effectively skid these logs. So I am leaning toward the method(s) explained by Murf, Chief, and Yooperpete. ....

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shortmagnum
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2004-10-28          99381

You can use the chokers you have by making a loop on one end and clamping it with a cable clamp. Just leave the end hanging in place. I think you'll find you can skid a 12-15" diameter pine out full length, especially if you've limbed it. Last winter I yanked out plenty of spruce that size with limbs and tops attached, and my Kubota is about the same size as your JD.
Dave ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-10-28          99389

I have had great success skidding suprisingly large logs using a 3 point drawbar with holes down the length. I bought 2 chain grab hooks that pin to the drawbar and placed one at each end near the 3 point arms. I use one length of chain with grab hooks at each end. I wrap one loop around the log and leave the grab at the 9-10 o'clock position on the log. then I hook into the drawbar grab hook on that side. I then hook the other end of the chain to the 2-3 o'clock position of the log loop and attach it to the grab hook on the drawbar leaving the same slack on both sides. Leave a little slack so you can turn the tractor. Wrap excess chain around the drawbar. Lift the 3 point and off you go. The log cannot roll and the tractor's lower drawbar bumps the end of the log to protect the tractor. It doesn't matter what diameter the log is because one length of chain adjusts to any log you can pull. ....

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Ardician
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2004-11-03          99781

Okay, got a 3ph drawbar and drawbar grabhooks on the way. I have too little time to spend on this project, but I have managed to clear a pretty good road through the brush and fallen trees, so I am just about ready to begin my little logging operation. I am amazed at the power and versatility of my tractor and loader. Already I have skidded some smaller logs out with logging chain attached to the hooks welded on my loader, pulling in reverse. I would like to post some pictures, but my camera/computer apparently creates jpg image files that are too large for this website. Any hints for posting pictures? ....

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denwood
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2004-11-03          99798

On the page where you post pictures, it tells about using paint program and changing the size by the stretch feature. I followed these directions and found if I shrunk to 45% the pictures fit the requirements but you may need a different amount depending on the size of original. ....

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Ardician
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2004-11-28          101218

Update on my storm cleanup: After several delays due to wet weather, I have pulled many logs using the choker cable and have now moved some bigger logs using the 3pth drawbar, grab hooks and chain. The latter method works really well and does less damage to the ground than dragging with the choker. Today I moved some 18" diameter, 16' long pine logs, no problem. ....

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