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 | brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin 
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2004-08-08 92993
Look at my new pics 1-6 and tell me how I done with the first time use of the box scraper. I am adding a few more 7-10 tonight on the drainage problem also. I love that box scraper but would also love to have a top/tilt power do-hickey!!!!! Next christmas maybe eh????? HINT HINT HONEY
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2004-08-08 92995
From the pics it looks like you're getting the hang of that scraper. TnT is great, but I warn you - once you get it you won't want to be without! ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-08 92996
I think that is the one item I never was told about or asked about before I bought my tractor. Suppose I could take it in someday cause I would not have the patience to do it myself (or for that matter the knowlege) I will definitally get a spreader soon. The new pic I added (i think number 8 or 9) shows me spreading seed I also done fertilizer the same way. I have been using my buddys wheeler that has a good spreader on it but he was not available this week to ask if I could use it.
What do you think about pic 3 (I think) I made the 3pt hauler a few weeks ago? Works great!
Also I added a few pics of diggin the drainage ditch to my little pond. We just got a few big storms blow thru and I have no idea how the new crown with the ditch worked. Its killing me not to be there to see. My dad just had anouther heart attack and had to leave to go to the cities. Just anouther reason not to hold off on some things you really want, life is shorter than what we all expect sometimes, he also was just diagnosed with emphazima this week! Pretty tough week in my house hold!
If he pulls thru these next few operations it is going to be a long year for my wife and I having to help him out. ....
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-08-09 93021
Did the TnT on my 7800 myself. Really isn't much to it. Bought the valves, hoses, fittings, and cylinders from SurplusCenter, and put it together for about 1/4 the cost of the manufacturers kits. And they are right, once you have it, you can't do without.
Oh, got the top link ends from NorthernTool. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-09 93023
Your 3-point hauler looks great. For a guy with a welder and tools those look pretty easy to make. I bought one of those and use it all the time.
Sorry to hear about your Dad's continuing health problems. We'll all be there someday and life is indeed short. I know where you're coming from since we're helping my Mom cope with problems too. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2004-08-09 93032
Also am sorry to hear about your Dad's failing health. It is important to spend time with him while you still can. I lost both my Dad a couple of years ago so know what you are going through. Your 3 point hauler looks nice. If I had designed it, would have put braces on the male tubes back to the triangle, since the bending moment gets pretty high at the welds. Nice job! ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-09 93046
I was concerned about being able to get into a skid but if I would of run it on the side it would of worked, (hindsight ya know) LOL. I ran the male ends 13" into the female (all the way) It is 1/4" wall tube, wonder how much it will hold before bending? Price of steel is out of this world!!! I bought 2x3" structual tubeing for my bucket forks, 12' ran me $103. plus tax!!! And ya wonder why China beats our price on so many things made from castings! Ya get what ya pay for though! LOL
How much of a crown is enough? I was debateing on if I was putting too much on the drive especially since it is a downward slope anyway. Will too much be bad?
My new plans now is to start a bought and paid for gravel pile. I figure I am moving in a few years to this place and the price is not going down anytime soon on trucking and gravel. Along with the inconvienance of calling when ya need it. I was thinking since I am making good money right now and can afford it, I might as well start having a couple of loads a month delivered and stock piled. It is not going to go anywhere and we all know we can never have enough gravel laying around! I already started a pile of pit gravel and a pile of crushed road gravel. After I used 50% of the two loads (14yards) I had em deliver anouther load each. Anyone know if ya get a discount on it if you buy it by the semi (40 yard) load? Maybe I will check it out besides more sand in the sandbox is always better for us kids, ya never know when we are going to fall thru to china and then what would we do down there without a grey market tractor? ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-08-09 93062
I'm sorry to hear about your dad, that's a tough situation.
A crown does not have to be extreme to be functional, in fact too much crown would be bad too. Basically you want the water to drain off the road and into the ditch. It must be enough to drain even a light rain, but not so steep that it causes erosion. The amount of crown varies with slope, curves, etc., but as a general rule of thumb you want a 5%-10% slope from the centerline out each side.
As for the stock pile, it is a good idea in principle, and is certainly handy, however, it's easy to lose a lot of material when it's stacked up too. The little bit that gets missed with the FEL then gets ground into the existing soil, the part that spills out from erosion, etc., it all adds up.
In most rural places up here, especially where there was a lot of driveway or road to maintain, people would dig a 'borrow' or 'wayside' pit. Usually where there is a hill or bank near where a river or lake used to be a couple of feet down is a natural pocket of aggregate, usually sand & stone mixed, sometimes straight sand. It is still common to see a small hill or bank with one side dug away as a source of material for small projects in the country around here. Have a look around your place, I'd be willing to bet you have some to, the ground is similar all around the great lakes.
Best of luck. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-08-09 93063
Assuming the lift arms are 2x2x1/4 tube A53, and looks like they are about 6' long, The tubes will fail in bending at 270lbs/ea. at the tip. If my assumptions are wrong from your pictures, let me know the correct dimensions and I can give you the capacity.
Best of luck to your family. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-08-09 93066
By the way, that 270lbs. at the tip will induce a 9700lb load at the weld at the front of the 3 point support. You need 4" of good 1/4" fillet weld for that. It looks from the picture like you probably have it. ....
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 | Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa 
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2004-08-10 93101
I've been following this post with interest. I do have a question as I wait for my 4310 to arrive (this week maybe?). What is the best or a method for getting the crown on the road he was working on? I need to improve the crown on my drive. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-08-10 93108
There are many ways to accomplish it.
Adjusting one drop link in your 3pth works well.
If you are going to do it fairly regularly you might want to look into modifying your box blade slightly to achieve this rather than fiddling with the 3pth everytime then putting it back to normal every time. This can be done as simply as afixing a trailer jack equipped with a small wheel as a foot to one side of the blade, then just crank it up to whatever offset you want.
Adjustable skid shoes will accomplish the same thing, just lift the blade into the air, lower one skid shoe, then drop it and go.
The 'serious' road maintenance blades have a pair of wheels out the back, one in each corner, which are independantly adjustable by the operator via hydraulics 'on the fly' but unless you have a LOT of road work I doubt you'd want to spend that kind of money.
Best of luck. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-11 93212
So Murph, you never told me if the crown look like its too much? (at least I dont recall) It on my pics 1,2. I dont have a ditch all the way down this part of the drive yet. The slope from the hill allows it to run down to the small pond and out into my farm field. I will be ditching it just as soon as I make sure this is where all the new building will be. I am contemplating putting up one more so before I do work that will need to be re-done I figure I better think on it. Still trying to watch the natural run of water to decide the best spots for the 2-3 culverts that should go in.
On that thought you have any opinions on steel or plastic?
Thanks guys Tom ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-08-11 93216
Sorry about that Tom, the CRS must be setting in worse than before.
The amount of crown you put into that drive looks fine, I would suggest though that you make sure you eliminate ALL of that little ridge visible on the right-hand shoulder in your picture # 1 before you park that blue monster of yours.
They way it shows in that picture, the water will run off the road cross-wise, the way it's supposed to, but then get trapped by that little ridge, at which point it will run downhill until it can escape the road surface. During that journey you can be sure of two things, it will cause erosion along the way, and it will take a big part of the escape route with it. This is what causes the big V-shaped notches out of the side of a road's shoulder after downpours.
This can also result from something as simple as a heavy vehicle driving along the shoulder and the tire causing a depression for the water to run in.
As for the culverts, there are pro's and con's to both.
The plastic won't rust and if a truck drops a wheel over the edge it won't be mashed shut like steel would.
The steel is stronger and doesn't require as much ground-cover, this is handy in some circumstances where the soil conditions (read BFR's) won't allow them to be buried deep enough.
Unless you have a LOT of water to deal with I don't advise even using culverts. I prefer to see a seepage installed. Basically a series of 6" weeping tiles (Big O) with the material (sock) covering, filled with clear stone, and laid cross-wise under the driveway. This allows the water to pass under the road without the hassle and potential problems of a culvert.
It's a little late in your case I'm sure, but you can usually design the driveway such that as little water as possible ends up on the 'wrong' side.
Best of luck. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-11 93253
Thank you for the nice explanation and evaluation! Untill I can cut trees and push back the edge of the woods (which includes cutting a few decent small oaks and it will kill me to do that) I put the edge on there on purpose. Right now I have just pit run on the drive and you are right the runnoff takes alot of the fine particals with it. I am lifting the height of the drive with crushed road gravel, hopefully it will crest over that ridge (the new gravel) and alow the water to slowly filter into the woods on it journey to the little pond at the bottom this way here not as much water will enter the pond. Untill then I want most of the water and sediment to run all the way down the ridge. the sediment will get trapped before the pond for it levels out a bit before entering and will slow. When I had the grade shot for the small house I have there, it was shot about a foot too low! These guys are the best around, I dont blame them but they did mess up. I am at the bottom of a pretty good drop (maybe 10-15 foot over 200 yards) With the slope droping only a foot or so more past my house. You are right I am stuck with the way the water runs down that ridge, its on both sides of the drive and the stuff on the house side I need to get accrossed the drive and away from the house. This last winter we had 3 foot of snow in the woods around my place and when it melts it gets real close to the foundation. Has never went over it yet but close enough to make me nervous. I am building a house next to this and attacthing it together,this one is on frost walls and was origionally going to be transformed into a attached garage. As you all know things change and I made it soo nice inside that my bride wants it to be a college kid retreat? (best description I can give) LOL. I think latter in life it will be my dog house! (well it has a bathroom and a full kitchen! Not a bad dog house) The garage idea has passed and now I am stuck with a cement slab that is pretty close to ground level that the house is on. STUCK is right!
Thanks alot for the advice in slopeing and ditch making, If I make a mistake I actually can flood the house so I want to error on the side of caution for now till I get the right drainage away and down the slope. (compound angles are hard enough (sometimes) but throw in a variable like water and its almost too much for my little tool & Die makers brain!
Thanks again! Much appreciated
Tom ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-08-11 93254
If the foundation is low I would strongly suggest you invest a little time, effort and money on redirecting any water that might get close to the house.
Build a swale, berm, or french drain so that even if water does approach the house it will (hopefully) drain before it can build up to a critical point.
Clear gravel is the best thing to prevent erosion, even a relatively thin layer of it will slow down water and trap sediment and fines.
You may also want to look at using some siltation barrier fabric, if you lay it under the top layer of road bed to protect it from erosion, or run it alongside so that if it washes out it won't go far and can be easily repaired.
Eventually you should look into changing the foundation. Around here it's pretty cheap (relatively speaking) to raise a house. They jack it straight up, make an extension on the foundation, then set the house back down on the new, higher foundation. I doubt it would cost as much to do that as a flood or two would cost in repairs and restoration.
Best of luck. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-13 93490
Murph
Yes I did have a dozor come in and push a very large (10' wide section) swale thru the woods toward the farm field. After 4 years its hard to tell its there but if I did not do that I would of had water on the bottom of the house in the spring 2 years ago. I have the water running real good away from and around the house now but I need to make sure if I make any changes to the surrounding envirenment I keep my head out of my ass. Since I am on a slope (not too much but a slope anyway) I have the oportunity to direct water away. My new house will be 3 foot higher than this section with a set of french doors after a set of steps to get from my dog house to my wifes palace. Thanks for the info but I am still a bit sick to my stomach even after 4 years that it was not a foot or so higher. I can live with it just need to do a bit of creative landscape around the place. OOPS SOUNDS LIKE A NEW IMPLIMENT????????
LOL ....
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| jrestill
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 28 Page County Virginia 
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2004-08-16 93634
Muph,
Could you please elaborate just a little on the Big O 6" weeping tiles
I'm familiar with plastic and steel culvert. also and the PVC french drain, which I suspect is not suitable for cross-road drainage unless it is really buried deep.
I have a half dozen salvaged iron grates that I could use to bridge an open depression in a spot where I want water to cross.
But the weeping tiles you mention might be my best solution. what are they made of and how deep do you need to place them?
thanks. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-08-16 93642
If you are in an area where the frost doesn't go too deep. or there isn't any at all, then weeping tiles are a great alternative to culverts.
Basically you just fill flexible plastic weeping tile with small crushed stone and lay it as you would a culvert, just more of them since each is smaller in diameter. Then cover them and forget them. Of course since this is 'gravity' drainage everything needs the proper, consistent slope.
If the amount of water you need to deal with is substantial, or comes all at once, then an open crossing (bridge) is the answer. There are many choices, often the deck of a big old flatbed trailer makes an excellent bridge. Open mesh grates on a steel subframe work well also, so do surplus railway ties or used highway guard-rail posts, but they are a lot of fussing, and don't last as long usually.
Best of luck. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-08-17 93701
I have to run a snow blower on top of a ditch during the winter so it doesn't fill up with ice and block the spring run off. There still usually is some ax work to do.
Any closed drainage system that's above front is going to freeze and then a steam machine is needed. I improved the house's back-grading, re-graded the drive so more of the yard drained down the drive and repositioned the eaves-trough down-spouts and haven't had water since then. Before that a sump that pumps to a dry-well prevented standing water in the basement.
Weepers to a dry-well might work but one might not perc enough for significant problems since problems often happen when the ground is saturated everywhere. Continuing an overflow line from a dry well to air might not be too long a run if the slope is decent. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-08-17 93773
((Weepers to a dry-well might work but one might not perc enough for significant problems since problems often happen when the ground is saturated everywhere. Continuing an overflow line from a dry well to air might not be too long a run if the slope is decent))
Ok now that I have got Websters infront of me, what was that you said again? LOL Pretty high teck talk there! I learn something everyday!
Thanks Tom ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-08-19 93853
It's long but here are a couple of illustrations: It takes fair sized pits or leech lines to dispose of much water. They are sizable projects
A raised gray water pit at our camp is a 6x12x4 foot pit stone filled with a 4' cube chamber. Between the chamber and stone it would hold around 500 - 600 gallons and would manage a one-time drainage problem of that size. However, even with our sandy soil the pit is rated at 375 gallon/day. Fill it once and then the capacity is about half for the next day.
The pit had to be raised 3' above grade to accommodate a high spring water table. The one foot below grade is well within the layer that is saturated after thaw or wet weather so it won't perc anywhere near 375 gallon/day when it'd be needed for drainage problems. It also freezes so it stores ice rather than disposes of water during the winter.
If it were used to drain a foundation, the pit top would have to start at the bottom of the foundation plus some for a drainage angle, or drainage would have to be collected in a sump and pumped to the pit.
On the other hand a barrel part way down a steep embankment does an adequate job at our house for laundry and occasional sump discharge. I don't suppose the open barrel bottom actually percs much water, but any overflow just goes further down the hill. It doesn't freeze because some hot water goes into it and the barrel top and drain line is covered with Styrofoam. The drainage line starts out '2 deep at the house and runs 50' or so. The idea wouldn't work without the steep embankment because the barrel would have to be very deep and then there'd be no place for overflow to go. Leech lines don't require as much depth but they take more area. It's a lot easier to solve drainage problems on the surface. ....
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