Go BottomReview FlexPoint 3PH Receiver Hitch
 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ 
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2006-07-07 131817
This is a message thread to post your own review of the FlexPoint Receiver Hitch. Please use the format below. You cna read the TP review at the link below.
Overall Rating ( 1-5 5=Excellent)
Pros (1-4 brief comments)
Cons (1-4 brief comments)
Review Commentary
Summary
Link: FlexPoint Hitch Review
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-07 131838
Any idea how much weight this unit will pull safely? Is a ball mount for gooseneck trailer an option? ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-09-03 133929
Fastalker: I'm going to be critically constructive:
Here's a cautionary tale:
Last year a friend of mine sold trailers in Michigan that were made by someone else was sued. He welded a drop down lawnmower gate on the rear of a trailer sold by another dealer to a landscaper. Landscaper picked it up, connected it to a truck with the wrong-sized ball. Trailer came off on the road and killed a passing family riding in a car. The victims' family sued the original dealer, the landscaper, and my friend. My friend who admittedly should have cooperated with the law system didn't feel he was at fault. So he let his insurance co. handle it. Turns out he wasn't insured for manufacturing but was for selling trailers. He showed up for court the day it was to be settled, and lost. His portion of the judgment was $980,000 for doing nothing more than making a gate for $300. Now he is selling his acreage and business, and divorcing his wife on paper to move his assets. He doesn't know if can appeal since he was lax to begin with.
I have a background in automotive product liability, design, and failure mode analysis. And I have had my own products marketed over the years.
NOTE: Fasttalker, after reading my post decided to delete his original post which I quoted. Then I replied to Oneace's recent concern that someone didn't want the link to www.summitfab.com revealed, so I posted that---and that post was deleted by someone without my consent. Looks like censorship to me or rather protectionism.
"The Flexpoint Standard Model FPHS-1 is rated for 10,000 lbs."
>>>>How did you arrive at this rating? By actual destructive testing, or as I suspect by guesstimation (comparing other products). And what is the safety margin: 3:1, 4:1? I notice there is no reinforcing or doubling or swaging around the end of the reciever tube which means under the right conditions the tube could split in any direction (and that's assuming using your published albeit grossly exaggerated ratings). Even under the best circumsatnces the non-reinforced open end will become enlarged as the hitch wobbles around in the opening--just like my Dodge's trailer hitch which is a Class 4 and reinforced.
"The lift arm pins are the limiting factor."
>>>>>Whaaaat? Show me a CUT that lift can something heavy enough to break the lift arm pins. I can lift the front of my CUT with front weights just lifting my full box blade!
"With respect to your question as to the amount of weight that can be towed safely, it will depend entirely on your tractor specifications."
>>>>>Buddy, you are going to get sued BIG time time by the estate of the guy who "towed" his trailer using this product. You need to specify that it is NOT intended for towing, may result in a loss of steering, NOT intended for any applications that would require brakes or other safety equipment in the event the tractor and or the trailer got away from you---like going up/down a hill---OR on ice, mud, rain, loose gravel, etc. What's going to happen when the tractor jackknifes under a gooseneck due to losing steering control, no braking, etc.---someone's going to get killed. Or it's entirely possible with a regular bumper tow hitch to have the trailer jackknife and have a rear tire being rolled over onto by the trailer tongue--providing the hitch doesn't ride up first or the ball breaks off. (anecdote: I was working in New Orleans last Fall cleaning up debris. Their highway on-ramps are little wider than a vehicle. I saw jammed on the I-10 on-ramp a 15-yard bumper-tow dump trailer going up the ramp with the tow vehicle, a new Ford Super Duty wrapped around the left side facing the opposite direction jammed in between the barrier wall and the trailer. That my friends, will put the Fear of God in you)
"The Model FPHS-EG is recommended for towing gooseneck trailers and is rated at 18,000 lbs; recommended tongue weight is 10,000 lbs."
>>>>> You gotta be joking---10,000 lb. tongue weight on the rear of a CUT or any Cat-1 tractor hitch? What are you thinking? You'll be buying a heck of a lot of tractors with broken axles/tires buddy, not to mention those that overturn as they are lifted off the ground since there's no upper-travel limiter----read: absence of safety equipment. The operator could find the hitch planted in his back when the trailer hitch ball snaps off as his buddy was loading his dozer off the gooseneck. Or the guy that has a his big dump trailer that he's dumping and the load gets stuck in the back coming out. Or overturns dumping on uneven ground.
>>>>>It's painfully obvious you don't carry expensive product liability insurance. If you do, you are not disclosing this product line to your underwriter. Nor have you showed your web site info and other documents to a product liability attorney worth his salt. There is NO way they would let you sell these based on the ratings and info you have provided. Let a lawyer look
at it, then your insurance underwriter----hyped-up 10,000 lb. ratings will fast become "Use at your own peril. Not responsible for damage to personal property, injury or injury that may result from using this product"----that advice would cost ya about $5000 from a lawyer... and I won't even charge ya for that :) ....
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 | oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa 
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2006-09-04 133936
EW are you talking to the wall again? ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-09-04 133940
Whatchou talkin' 'bout, Willis?
....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-09-04 133941
I am assuming that some one deleted a post before yours? Because I have no Idea what you are referring to in most of your post. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-09-04 133942
It looks like fastwalker19 read what EW said, reconsidered his post and deleted it. ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-09-04 133943
Not the first time that has happened. ....
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| oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-09-04 133952
EW you will have to e-mail it to me some one does not want it seen. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-09-04 133954
Oneace you're right somebody doesn't want it seen---I posted the link and my post was deleted by someone. I'll send to you and anyone else who wants it. Try www.summitfab.com ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2006-09-04 133955
No one deleted your post Ewrk ! The reply to KT's question was deleted by the poster which was FastWalker. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-04 133956
I read it before it was deleted EW it was not only in your mind we believe you. I agree there are some questions with the construction. I purchased a Reese reciever with the idea of modifying my drawbar years ago. It is essentually a piece of square stock with the hole and the reinforcing. If you had any large side loads the normal tubing would split like a ripe watermellon.
I am not sure whether the movement of the lower 3 pt links would increase or decrease loading. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-04 133960
I read it too.
I wondered how any 1200-3500 pound CUT with a Cat 1 hitch was going to lift or haul a 10,000 load. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-09-05 133963
Being about as far from recomended behaviour as you can get, I can tell you it is more than possible.
A neighbour has a BX, and when he had some topsoil delivered the trucker shut off his truck for a cold beverage offered by the client, my neighbour, when the poor guy went to leave the truck wouldn't even turn over. My neighbour didn't even hesitate to say he would go get his tractor.
You should have seen the look on the dump truck driver's face when he pulled around the corner on his BX!!!
Not wanting to insult the client the driver smiled, chained the BX to his truck and jumped in, he nearly faineted when the machine pulled the truck down the driveway with barely a puff of smoke and started the dumper right off.
Now lift is another matter, but pulling dead weight? Any CUT will pull amazing amounts of weight, just don't get excited about stopping or turning them once they're moving.
Some of our big tractors at the farm, particularly the JCB, has an air braking system like that on a semi-truck for just for that reason, it will pull far more than it could stop.
Best of luck.
....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2006-09-05 133967
Darn I missed it! FastWalker hassled me some years back and cost me about $6,000.00 in attorney fees, but I don't have any bad feelings towards him. Business is business, however he was out of line and knew he had no basis for his infringement allegations.
In defense of his product:
Recently he has been copying our hitch design (his is called E-Z mover which is not similar to his advertized model at Tractor Point) to a degree, where he has removed some of the side gussets. (We, however, actually use standard hitch sleeves from Putnam, Rigid, etc. with re-inforced lip where Flexpoint has not). Through testing we have found that our earlier design was way over designed. I frequently haul a 10,000 lb. load with my 27HP, 2600lb. compact utility with FEL. When using common sense, it is practical and safe.
Remember, guys with 6,000 lb. trucks are pulling 10,000+ lb. trailers at 80 mph down the highway. They have trailer brakes, but how many of them have them adjusted correctly or how has their load been distributed. I've seen allot of trailer type RV's laying on their side from jack knifing, etc. Speed kills!!!!
Pulling a 10,000 lb. trailer up and down steep hills and around sharp corners with a light tractor without rear wheel weights and front loader isn't the best situation. The tractor's brakes are sufficient if you have traction and are doing so at a slow pace. Unfortunately, there are no laws requiring tractor and truck drivers to have common sense and brains.
Typically you should have about 500-1000 lbs. tongue weight. As brand X, we only sell them with a safety chain to handle negative tongue weights as well. We don't do goosenecks for obvious reasons.
Our current Brand X hitch adapter when bolted to a category 2 drawbar and operated by an 80+ HP. tractor bends when backing (jack knifing it in reverse) a triple axle dump trailer with 26,000 lb. load when the tires are in 6" deep sandy ruts where the front trailer axle/wheels are actually pushing sideways rather than rotating and tracking. If someone asks, we rate ours for a 10,000 lb. rating for 30 and plus HP. tractors and 7,000 lbs. for smaller tractors.
I would hope that Summit has also tested their products to the nth degree as we have and hope that have similar ratings. If they haven't, I can act as an expert witness. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-05 133968
I guess I was stuck on lifting and hauling at the same time.
I have no doubt that a BX could pull a 10K load with no tongue weight involved, but as Murf said, then you have a tiger by the tail and what do you do with it?
I used to pull a 250 gallon water tank with my well ballasted CUT. With a single axle trailer it would try to lift the rear of the tractor off the ground going uphill.
Then I tried a tandem axle trailer and it would jackknife going downhill.
So I got a set of steerable running gear and it solved the uphill and downhill problems but I never figured out how to back the damn thing up without bending the tongue.
Then I got smart and bought a smaller water tank. ....
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 | JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana 
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2006-09-05 133972
Prior to owning my CUT, my electric forklift ran out of juice outside the shop. The charger wasn't easliy going to be moved to the forklift, so the best option was to get the forklift to the charger. The manuvering area was too tight for a pickup truck, so I used my JD GT245 20HP (gas) garden tractor to move it - all 10,000 lbs. I pretty much spun the tires on the concete the entire way, but it did the job!
- Jason ....
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 | kyvette
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 194 Central Kentucky
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2006-10-04 135690
This dicussion brings up a memory of a stupid stunt I pulled about 30 years ago.
I am sure most of us have pulled some really dumb stunts at somewhere along the way. My was pulling a two-axle trailer with a full size farm tractor behind a 1/2-ton, 4x4, short bed, GMC pickup without trailer brakes and to make matters worse I was using a pintle-hook. I don't know what the tractor weighed but it was a 70's model Massy-Ferguson in the 50 -60HP range.
The pickup could pull the load with no problem, but going downhill was the problem. I was on a 4 lane highway with hills and on the first hill the trailer begin to push the truck and started the rear end swaying. I had to accerate to regain control and by the time I hit the bottom of the hill I was going about 70mph. This resulted in a stop to access the situation and check my pants.
The rest of the way home I would creep as I started over the hill and accerate on the way down. This worked and fortunely I didn't damage anything or anyone. Just an example of getting heavy load behind a vehicle not designed to handle the load. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-10-04 135693
kyvette,
I always wonder about those drivers who pull right in front of a loaded trailer and often to stop. All drivers ought to be required to drive on empty highway a load about like yours to learn respect not for the person pulling it but the lack of ability he had to control it. ....
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