Go BottomBoomer Transmission Cooling Hose Swelling
 | cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI 
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2003-03-22 51613
Ok Gents. See the earlier thread named, "Check your hoses"? Well - finally got the proper hoses from New Holland (part# 86540861 with a manufactured date of 10-14-02. Says it is made in U.S..) Figured I would replace them both because of the one that cracked. These hoses are the ones that are connected to the transmission cooler in front of the radiator and fan. They are 5/8" hoses with a preformed 90 degree bend. I put the new hoses on and they swelled about 15%. No leaks but the swelling has me nervous. For what it is worth - I am nearly 100% confident that the previous hose simply broke down and that it's cracking characteristic had nothing to do with excessive high pressure that was suggested in a response to my previous posts (again - these hoses are not running at hydraulic hose pressures). When I say high pressure here - I am referring to my belief that the lines going to the cooler seem to be operating at their normal flow rates - I used a clear hose looped to make the bend to see this flow - but then again I did not measure the pressure of this line because I do not have the means - nor do I know if the pressure of these lines are even publicly specified. Is this swelling normal? Looks scary to me. The dealer replaced the hydro fluid in 2002 - so I would think it is not the fluid causing it. Could one of you that have a TC check these hoses and describe the swell factor? I will get digital photo next week and post it. Also - the hose look like they are delaminating at the cut edges. This separation also concerns me. I wonder if they made a bad batch - with the wrong chemical mixture or molecular structure? By the way the swelling relaxes 10% (relatively speaking) when the engine is shut off. They don't seem to be getting any bigger in diameter - but man it just doesn't seem right.
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-22 51615
One other thought - "The Chemist" mentioned ozone. How about leaking battery acid gases? I noticed while cleaning off the oil with soapy water that the battery was gassing about once every 5 minutes (a bubble about the size of a pea would exit from under the leftmost battery cap - original NH battery). Also - the battery hold down bracket has lost some paint - indicating exposure to battery acid. Granted - these gases would not effect the hoses while the engine is running as the gases would be drawn directly past the radiator, however, when the engine is off - the gases could rise to the left hose (the one that blew) and work on breaking it down. As it happens - the hose that blew was the leftmost hose - but they both were deteriorating. Don't mean to be too anal about this but you need to understand - if this hose leaks - the fan sucks the oil into it and blows it into the engine compartment - a real big mess that I do not want to see happen to you. ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-22 51616
One other thought... If the battery is gassing - why? I seen a car battery get over charged from failed rectifiers in the alternator or voltage regulator module. Over charging can cause this - in my case - I think the gassing is normal. Anyone have a corroded (rusted) battery hold down bar (due to leaking acid or tracing from battery -you know - the white crustation buildup). Oh - by the way - I have no crust on my battery or posts. :) ....
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| stlland
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3 white lake ontario
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2003-03-22 51637
yeh i had the same with my 33d i replaced the hoses and then reinfoced them but tieing several large zip ties around the circumference of each hose.i think it was caused by not warming the hydro up before use.im in ontario and i switched to f200 fluid.also if i dont warm up i get a small leak from the hydro area drain in the trans case area(hole with cotter pin in it)i now keep the little fellah in the shop in the winter(less squeal,warmer seat instant use etc) ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-22 51642
the zip ties are a really good idea
actually I thought of it then thought it might be a little silly, however, I do feel better about doing it knowing that others have done it too. Also - I know that we are fixing a factory problem. Friends have told me that hoses with oil in them in front of the fan is not good idea.. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL 
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2003-03-22 51643
Swelling of the lines can be caused by 2 things, pressure and the oil itself. If the rubber material used in the lines is not resistant to the oil then the line will swell. The oil is compatible with the rubber and absorbs into the line. If the lines swells and shrinks the lines will fatigue and crack over time.
Do the exterior of the lines feel oily? If you changed the oil to synthetic etc. this could change the compatibility of the oil to the hose.
I might go to the local hose shop and change them out to regular hydrallic hoses. The hose is relatively inexpensive it is the fittings that cost.
Peters ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-22 51645
Update. Mike at Milwaukee Ford Tractor confirmed that the unit he has on the lot (new) has the same issue. He says it is normal - that is for the hose to swell. He kinda off the record stated that he agrees with my assessment of the hoses - not proper for the application. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-23 51661
I've always thought of oil coolers as being on the suction side of a pump, and I imagine these hoses are.
What may be going on here is that the rad acts as a restriction or orifice that produces a pressure differential across the rad. The possibility of a pressure differential seems pretty definite but I'm not absolutely certain if a differential would be created entirely by a decrease on the output side or by a combination of pressure decrease on the output side and increase on the input. If it's a combination, then one hose would receive pressure and the amount of pressure would depend on the flow and oil viscosity.
I forget if the original post said one or both hoses are swelling. Along with everybody else, I doubt that a hose that noticeably swells is a good application.
....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-23 51672
By the way Tom - both hoses swell but the right one - as viewed from the front - seems to swell a little more.
I am adding the zip ties this morning. Tom - the mess was really, really bad. I spent about 2.5 hours "detailing" the engine to clean it of oil that blew through the fan and everywhere. My opinion is that everyone who has these hoses are sitting on a "ticking time bomb" - even the guy at Milwaukee Ford tractor said that "regular inspections will be required on these hoses...every time you use the machine" . I am seeking a better solution right now.
Sincere Regards,
Cliff in
Wisconsin ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-03-23 51674
The braided stainless steel sleeves, (hot rod detailing) might look good and would restrict the swelling and prevent the oil from covering the engine if it blew. ....
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 | marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-23 51715
I've been following this thread with some interest, and have wondered if their is some compatibility issues with the oil and rubber. Are you using the recommemded transmission fluid? Have you changed it. If a hose is separating between plies, it might indicate some interaction between oil and rubber. Are you using any additives? ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-23 51717
Mark - answers in previous posts
Thanks for input. ....
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| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-23 51718
Right,
but I was suggesting some reasons and further possible causes to help eliminate problem in the future. ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-03-23 51719
Dealer says his hoses are partially delaminated near the edges too. Here is the deal - the clamp is in the proper position leaving 1/4-1/2 inches from the end. Just look at the hose - the new tractors have the same delamination. The delam is anywhere between - 1/8 to 1/4 inch in from the end.
Agree - it is not right - but am told that it is not a problem.
Not using additives - dealer changed the fluid. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-24 51733
Peters comment about the braided sleeves reminded me of stress relievers for 'snakes' used in the sound buz. Snakes are cables that contain varying numbers of coax lines for microphone channels. The purpose of stress relievers is to protect the fine mic lines and shielding from breakage due sharp bends near the snake ends.
I wonder if excessive flexing rather than swelling might be the problem (I still don't know where appreciable pressure might be coming from in a suction line). I recall a thread where rad fans were hitting their shrouds on some model NH's so I wonder how much flexing is going on.
If the break occurred near a clamp, then Peters idea might help. A braided sleeve that covered the clamps and snugged on the nipples might take some of the stress near the clamps and at the bends as well. However, I don't know if these sleeves are capable of going around 90-degree bends or over the clamps and still fit the hoses snugly.
....
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