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 | TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-11-03 44571
Art and everybody else who may be interested. The link below is a pic of our local club's trail groomer. The drag for it is in the shop for some welding after five years of use.
It is a 2wd tractor, or at least used in 2wd and the steering is locked. It is steered by the brakes when the drag is off. When the drag is in use, there are hydraulic cylinders that 'fish-tail' the drag, and that's what steers it on the trails.
Link:
Click Here
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-04 44587
Tom,I was in a newer version operating it this past year. They are a nice machine and work well. The farm tractor adaption for grooming has been very sucessful as they seem to get longer life than some of the units that costom build the power units. I see this one doesn't look like it has the door seat in it which we like as our groomers are often out 8 hours at a wack and at 5mph it does get lonely out there in the middle of the nite. There are two different ways to steer and this unit steers the same as three of our groomers just they aren't tractors. These units are also lower priced than the dedicated or built groomer units that are built by brands like Piston Bully, Bombardier and Tucker which are the main builders for this market of about two hundred units a year. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-11-04 44616
The other groomers go much faster than 8 miles an hour. This is important if you are grooming a whole ski slope or needing to move equipment over large distances. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-05 44619
A passenger seat would be good. Last winter an operator ran out of fuel back in the bush and spent the night there. He might have gotten too cold to worry about not having company though.
From talking a bit with club members about the groomer, I'd say that it has been pretty reliable. There was mention of a few blown steering cylinders and last winter new hoses were installed on the cylinders (swivel 90-degree fittings allowed the hoses to rub). Since the things mentioned all had to do with the drag steering, I wonder if it's a weak link? Perhaps the dedicated units have better tracks and steering and that's what allows greater ground speeds. Five-mph does seem like a comfortable speed on many of the trails around here though.
One of the club members said something I didn't exactly understand. Apparently the tracks are tightened by greasing the tractor. And then, the guy had to run off to deal with his customers so I don't know how grease tightens the tracks. I do know that the tires slip inside the tracks if they aren't tight.
Bombardier builds groomers! It seems a long way from railroad cars, but I may have found the concept--if runs on tracks, Bombardier builds it. You have to give a railroad car tracks but Skidoos supply their own. I wonder if they build military weasels too? Now if high speed grooming is wanted, a weasel should deliver it.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-05 44622
Tom, the tracks on these tighten just like on bulldozers with grease and a grease gun than you retighten and secure. Those groomers can do more than 5mph some will do 20mph when they are not grooming or in the right snow to groom faster. It is a bit of science knowing when the snow is right to grade and have a good flow thru the drag that follows. the hydraulic lines can be a problem just like the cylinders, it could be that someone didn't hook the hoses up right and allowed them to be crossed when hooked up. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2002-11-05 44625
Tom, to those of us who live 'down south' a Bombardier (usually an old J5), or 'Bombi' as they were called, was a common sight cleaning sidewalks in urban areas, normally with a 48" wide V-blade on the nose. They were notorious for launching operators into the windsheild when an obstacle (usually a water sutoff vallve was encountered.
The proliferation of the Compact caused it's demise, just as the trail groomer has changed.
The tensioners on the tracks you mentioned work by means of a cylinder, similar to a hydraulic cylinder. The grease is pumped into them and the cylinder expands, tightening the track, as the track stretches, more grease is pumped in. Most bulldozers use a similar system to keep the tracks to the correct tension, although most of the newer units use automated hydraulic systems.
Best of luck. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-11-05 44630
Tom;
It is not remarkable that Bombardier makes snow machines. It is remarkable that Bombardier has diversified to make rail cars etc.
Joseph Bombardier filed his first patents on snow machines in 1937 and had experimented with the machines back into the 20's. His company had a lot of firsts in snow machines and the industry was built around snowmobiles, not railcars.
Murf were are you?
Peters ....
Link: Bombardier
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2002-11-05 44633
Peters, the 'down south' comment was friendly dig at my northern neighbour Tom, who lives about 250 miles north-east of me, and probably at least that far from the nearest sidewalk, ;-> ... right Tom?
By the way, I am going to be even closer shortly Tom, I have to go to Bristol to pick up a snow pusher for one of our machines.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-11-05 44640
You fellows forgot that Bombardier not only is on the ground with there snowmachines and trains but also in the air with planes. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-11-05 44643
Murf;
Sorry I was not talking physically. I thought you would hit Tom between the eyes with your trival Canadian knowledge. He lives in snow country near Quebec and still has no idea that the snowmobile was invented by J. Bombardier. If the Quebecqua here of his comment he may get deported after another uprising.
Peters ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-06 44655
Thanks for the lessons guys--both industrial history and dozer tracks.
Even after 30-years I'm still an immigrant with uneven knowledge of local history. In the city I knew a former director of Bombardier. He talked about railroad cars but not snow machines.
Yep, We're about 30 miles from the nearest traffic light and that's only been there only for 3-years. There are actually sidewalks there too. We're also about 70 from the nearest parking meter--just the way I like it.
Quebec is about 1/4-mile by canoe, which is about half-the width of the Ottawa River here where a dam forms a lake. But there are no Quebecers anywhere near that close so I'll probably avoid deportation for my shocking ignorance. However, there are things worse than deportation. Without a Quebec fishing license I am liable for a fine if we take the canoe up a tributary and have a fishing pole along--even if nobody's fishing. Such is life across political boundaries even if they're provincial ones. Both provinces sure have a lot of funny rules to govern a place where nobody much lives.
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