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 | tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct 
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2002-01-21 34827
i own a tc33d with super steer. it has a o.e.m. loader and backhoe. i was in the process of buying a tc45d and wanted to outfit it with a bradco backhoe. my dealer told me that new holland would not warranty the tractor with a bradco hoe installed on it. i was a little shocked to hear this and so i decided to do a little checking with other dealers to see if they had heard of this? most said no. i was starting to question my dealers word, so i decided to call new holland warranty division. i was told that it was indeed true. if you install any hoe other than thiers it will cancell your warranty on tc's. i then called bradco and they told me it was true and that thier back hoes are too powerfull for tc's.,and that it literally willrip the machine in two if used agressivly. they told me that they removed the tc's from the catalog listing on backhoes.the person i spoke with was named bryan. he told me they had a machine at thier plant that broke in two during testing. they also had a tc29 bust the frame with a belly mower on it. the break out force of a bradco hoe is allmost double of the new holland brand hoes. both work off the same pump flow and pump pressure.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-01-22 34834
That's some good information. I've also heard there are warranty issues with hoes on some JD's, and some Kubotas require installation of reinforcing brackets. Warranty coverage is a good subject to keep in mind. It's always a gray area as to what constitutes abuse. Many dealers would cover anything they sold even if they had to argue with the manufacture or do it themselves. However, it's best to stay out of gray areas. Use of other implements that are 'outside' weight or HP recommendations of the implement manufacturer might be another gray area.
I doubt that Kubota is in a strong legal position asserting that only their own hoes are covered, but who needs the aggravation? I wonder if it's all Bradco hoes on any TC or simply the particular hoe/tractor combination? Too bad about Bradco since I believe they are a very well regarded hoe. However, the reality probably is that Bradco figures they wouldn't sell enough hoes to TC owners to justify a battle with Kubota. They almost certainly could design a modification that would bring hoe forces on the tractor within acceptable ranges--simply lowering the relief valve pressure setting probably would do it.
On the other hand, it’s good to keep in mind that a tractor isn’t like a dedicated hoe. Maybe tractor owners should avoid particularly powerful hoes and just contract out particularly heavy work. Besides, power always comes at the expense of speed for given pressures and flows. Under heavy loads, flow is reduced from spec and the hoe slows down. I know I spend more time ‘ho humming’ waiting for a heavy bucket to lift out of the hole than I spend trying to move the unmovable. I’m reasonable happy with my little wimpy 3ph hoe.
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-22 34843
just a thought, i was thinking of selling my tc33d with super steer,7308 loader,757c back hoe,ind. tires,arm rests and 182 hours. whats the going price out in the real world? i am the original owner and it still has factory warranty remaining. ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-24 34898
tgello,
Interesting post regarding Bradco hoes on TCs. I have a TC29D and purchased a Bradco 408. The 408 is slightly more powerful than the 758C (80 lbs dipper, and 120 lbs bucket). They have a subframe available to fit a TC25/29/33, and were more than willing to sell it to me. No one said anything about warranty issues. I had one little problem though, it wouldn't fit properly on the tractor. Ended up having to return it without ever using it. I know they also offer mounting kits for their 509/511/609/611 hoes (very powerful units) for the TC35/40/45 series. I've actually seen the kit, as the dealer ordered and delivered one to me by mistake (four weeks ago).
You really make me wonder what Bradco is doing. On one hand they tell you they aren't going to sell them, and yet they will sell them. Anyway, the warranty thing makes me glad I never was successful mounting it.
So what do you think of your 757C? I was thinking of buying a 758C. According to NH printed materials, it can go on a TC29D. I also noticed that it is the largest hoe (available from NH) for a TC35/40/45.
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-24 34900
johninca,the 757 backhoe on my tc33d is okay for small stuff, butit doesn't have a great deal of break out force. i also own a john deere 410 loader/backhoe so i tend to compare the two and there really is no comparison. it's been fine for digging utility trenches and stuff close to buildings, and transplanting christmas trees. was looking at a tc45d with the 758c hoe. don't know if it is too big of a hoe for the 29? my item about the bradco hoes came about from me wanting to sell the tc33 and the jd 410 and get something in between the two that would have some decent power. i like the bradcos because thier almost double the break out power of the new hollands . ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-24 34902
I just thought of something regarding the warranty issues. It all depends on your dealer. If they don't say anything to NH about a Bradco backhoe on the tractor, you won't have any problem with a warranty claim. Although, I suppose if the warranty claim is a tractor broken in two pieces, you will have a bit of a problem explaining what happened. However, for anything else, if your dealer keeps quiet, NH would never know there was a backhoe involved. ....
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-24 34903
johninca, the problem with the warranty issue is new holland would want to know what caused the damage and would probably send someone to look in to it further. my local dealer had a problem with the bradco hoe issue. i spoke with the owner of that dealer wed. he told me that bradco payed the bill . i was also told that the machine was a rental unit that had the frame welded two or three times be fore. i was told that the engine block cracked from all the stress on the scab welded frame. bradco payed the tab.$6000. my local dealer (r.w. thompson, in CT.) was the only dealer that was up front with me on this issue. by the way, he also told me that the tractor was out of it's factory warranty. if you use the machine your self and are easy on it and don't pull any 12 ton rocks out of a hole he said you probably would never have a problem... i don't know about you, but i can't seem to get any of those money trees to grow on my property, if you get my drift! tgello ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-24 34904
tgello,
Excellent points. If the engine block has cracked, it will somewhat difficult to explain. You've really burst my bubble now. I was actually considering an upgrade from the TC29D to the TC40D so that I could buy a 609. Now you're making me reconsider. I would go with a 758C, but I'm afraid I might be disappointed by it's performance. My only experience with backhoe digging power was a 4x4 NH 555E I rented for a week. Lots of power, but a huge machine. ....
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-24 34905
johninca ,i too am having second thoughts about going to the 45d with a 609. i am thinking of keeping my jd410 and the 33d,or going to a kubota L4610 with the kubota hoe or the 609. kubota's hoe has good power. bradco told me that they haven't had any issues with kubota/bradco set ups. i haven't had a chance to talk to kubota warranty dept. on this matter. if i were to buy a kubota with the 609 i would get it in writing from both the dealer and factory before i signed on the dotted line.... ....
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-25 34930
to anyone listening, i just got the skinny from new holland of north america on the issue of installing a backhoe other than thiers on a nh tractor. the e-mail stated that the tractors warranty is not voided if you install another brand of hoe on it. if there is a problem or damage to the machine due to the installation then they will not cover it in warranty..oh well, i guess that answers it once and for all. thanks for listening to me whine. tgello ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-25 34933
tgello,
Here's a little more information. I called Bradco this morning and talked to someone named Bob. He told me that they don't recommend a 609 on a TC40, but a 509 is ok. He also said that he wasn't aware of it voiding the warranty. I then talked to my dealer. He showed me the warranty booklet which basically says that if NH feels the non-approved part contributed to the claim, they will not approve it. Basically the same as what your last post said. I've decided to just buy the 758C for my TC29D. It's probably enough power for my needs. ....
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| John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-01-26 34946
JohnInCA wrote: I've decided to just buy the 758C for my TC29D. It's probably enough power for my needs.
John, I would check VERY closely with NH (your dealer as well as their central office) on whether you can install a 758C on your TC29D. I have a TC33D and was inquiring about backhoe prices. They said the biggest one they approved for the TC25/29/33 series was the 757C. I asked why the brochures all said the 758C was OK for this size TC. He said the brochures were being corrected, 758C is too big for it.
My dealer also mentioned the warranty issue. Said that the warranty would not cover damage caused by an unapproved backhoe being mounted on the tractor. I asked if there were any other brands of hoes approved other than NH. He did not know (they sell Woods, and he did not mention it as being approved). Both the sales guy and the service guy indicated that you should definitely NOT use a 3 pt hitch backhoe, especially not for extensive use. They felt that other subframe mounts would be OK (I assume they also meant similar powered subframes, since the 758 was not aproved even with a subframe), but stressed that this was their personal opinion, not that of NH.
John
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-26 34949
JohninCA, i looked up in my old literature that ihave when i bought my 33d and they only show the biggest hoe for the 25-29-33 to be the 757c. the new literature lists the 758 for the 25-29-33 ,but my dealer said it's to large for that size tractor. tgello ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-26 34978
John Mc and tgello,
You two are really ruining my day! Seriously, I appreciate all the feedback. Interesting that they said the brochure is incorrect. If that's the case, they need to correct their web site also. I'm going to call the dealer on Monday and run all of this by him. I'll ask him to check to see if there is a subframe listed for the 758C on a TC29. If it turns out I can't get a 758C, I'm going to have to re-think the whole idea. ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-26 34987
tgello, I'm not sure what I'll do now. Guess it's a 757c or nothing. What do you think of yours? It really annoys me that if I were to upgrade, I can only go to a 758C. Not even close in power to a 509. I'd go orange with an L35 if they had hydro. Unfortunately, the L48 is major dollars. ....
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-27 35013
johninca, my 757 is o.k. it all depends what you plan on doing with it? as i stated in a earlier e-mail, i also have a jd410 industrial loader/backhoe so if i need to rip into something i go for old yellow. don't get me wrong,the 757 is a good hoe for my 33. it has the power to pull the machine around. i had a problem with power when it was new. it just didn't have any guts, come to find out when i sent it back to the dealer for warranty the service dept. said that when they set up the hyd. pump the mechanic (or is it monkey?) didn't shim the pump properly ,so my pressure was about half the output of what it should be.keep me posted! ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-27 35019
Based upon your last post, I take it you have the PTO pump for the 757. I was thinking about skipping that and just plumbing off my remote hydraulics. Any comments? ....
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| soundguy34421
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-01-28 35027
Anyone know of warranty issues with non boomer new hollands? I have a 1920, and was wondering what backhoe could be mounted to it. Now that i see these posts about the boomers ( tc series ) I am beginning to wonder.
Any thoughts?
thanks ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-28 35050
soundguy34421,
I have a "Customer Warranty Guide" from NH, dated 3/01. It describes warranty coverage for all NH products. The problem is item #18 under "What is NOT covered by warranty or the extended service plan" section:
18. Claims for repair to a New Holland product where a non-approved, non-New Holland part, implement or attachment was used and in New Holland North America, Inc.'s estimation, substantially contributed to the failure by exceeding the product's performance, stability or reliability limits.
As you can see, that's a pretty "wide" statement, which would allow them to weasel out of most anything if there is a non-New Holland backhoe on your tractor. ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-28 35051
tgello and John Mc,
Here's the latest. I called Bradco again. This time I talked to Brian. He told me they had one tractor with a 611 that had a problem. I asked him about the warranty issues. He confirmed that NH will not cover anything they think was contributed to by the backhoe. He said a 509 would be ok on the TC35/40/45 series. I asked if Bradco would stand behind any problems. He said no.
Right after that call ended, my dealer called me back and said he could find nothing in his NH books that said you can't put a 758C on a TC29. He said there were part numbers listed for the 758C subframe and hydraulic kit for a TC29.
I told him to go ahead and order it. I doubt I will ever have a problem, and if I do, the dealer will stand behind it, as well as argue NH should have changed their product documentation. ....
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| John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-01-28 35052
My dealer may be wrong, but he said the 758C was approved for the TC29/TC33 at one time, but that they have since pulled it off the approval list. Unfortunately the literature has not been updated yet. This MIGHT explain why your dealer can still find part numbers for that set-up.
Like I said, my dealer may be wrong, but I think it's worth having your dealer contact NH to confirm it. I also think you should get in writing from your dealer that it is an approved installation, is covered under warranty, and that if NH does not stand behind it, he will. ....
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-28 35053
johninca, probably the best option. if you go with the bradco and something does go wrong you will be up that creek with out the paddle. as for the pump question, i think it's a remote? this ag tractor stuff is all new to me. i do custom fab and painting on bikes and cars. the hyd. are plumbed to the back and hook to the hoe via hyd. hoses with quick dissconects. hope every thing works out with the new hoe. tgello ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-28 35054
John Mc,
Good advice. I believe that your dealer is probably correct. Should there ever be a problem, I'm going to play ignorant, and let the dealer and NH fight it out. You would think that NH would not ship the parts if it's no longer approved, as he will be ordering a 758C kit specifically for a TC29D (different part number than a TC35/40/45). I know, this probably isn't the best approach on my part, but I'm very disappointed by the 757C specs. ....
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| John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-01-29 35067
JohnInCA -
Just curious: What kind of prices are you seeing for the 757C's and/or 758C's. I had thought of getting a 757 for my TC33D, but really can't justify it for the infrequent use I'd have for it. Renting just a backhoe may be a problem, since I'm leery of using a 3pt hitch hoe on these class II TC's; I'd really like to stay with a subframe mount, but finding a rental hoe w/subframe to fit a TC33D will be tough.
What kind of digging will you be doing? You must have some pretty heavy work planned.
John
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-01-29 35072
John Mc,
I am paying $6825 for the 758C. This includes the hoe, a 12" bucket, hydraulic kit (hoses only), and the subframe. It does not include a PTO pump, or sales tax. Keep in mind that I'm in southern CA, and the prices for everything tend to be higher.
I will be using it to put in several hundred feet of water line, a couple hundred feet of underground electrical and 6" french drains, footings for a 30 x 48 shop, and 200' of tight line to a leach field (it's downhill). I will also use it to dig out numerous large stumps, and cut a 200' long dirt bank back for a retaining wall. Probably the toughest use will be the stumps.
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| tgello
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 16 litchfield,ct
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2002-01-29 35074
JOHNMC, i just got a price on a 758c backhoew/18" bucket and dirt pads for $7065. less sales tax. the price was part of a deal with the purchase of a tc45d. johninca price didn't seem all that bad. tgello ....
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| John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-01-30 35101
JohnInCA:
Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you! I've not done much with a backhoe, but from what I've observed and read, stumps really give a hoe a good workout.
Thanks for the price info, John & tgello. My dealer was trying to sell me a new 757C for $5900. It was a unit he'd picked up from another dealer that had damage from road salt accumulated during shipping. Mostly cosmetic, but there were some rusty spots on the cylinder shafts that had me worried about tearing up seals. He claimed that he was knowcking off a good bit from his regular price due to the damage. I never did get into the 758C pricing with him, since he said it was not a good idea on my TC33D.
Hope things work out for you JohnInCA. At least with the subframe, you are taking some of the stress of the tractor. Take it easy on those stumps. ....
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| JohnInCA
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13 Southern CA
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2002-02-18 35713
tgello, John Mc,
Thought I would update you on the latest backhoe status. I decided to upgrade to a TC40D. Thought I was going to have to pay to send the 29D subframe back, but as it turned out NH goofed up and shipped a TC35/40/45 subframe by mistake. I did have to wait a couple extra days for them to overnight the correct hydraulic kit. Anyway, I now have a TC40D with the 758C backhoe. Haven't had a chance to use it yet. Spent my last 4 days off installing the backhoe, rear remotes, modifying my trailer to haul it, etc.,. Amazing how much work and time it takes just to get a new tractor ready to use. I hoping that the initial test can take place this next weekend. ....
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| John Mc
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 98 Vermont
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2002-02-19 35731
JohnInCA -
Congrats on the new tractor! I don't think you'll regret going up in size to a TC40D (though I'm sure it made a bigger dent in your wallet). It's a much better match for the backhoe you wanted.
Looking forward to hearing how it works out for you.
John Mc ....
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| RHumphreys
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-03-20 36534
JohnInCA
I have a TC40D with a Woods 9000 subfram hoe on it and have put it to the test for almost a year now. The setup runs and digs excellent with no problems so far. I live in Northern New England and to say the least we do grow rocks well here. The digging is tough but the TC40D and Woods hoe come back for more. You must remember operating a hoe is not just a matter of pulling on levers and your setup is not the same as a rubber tire hoe or excavator. Pratice, pratice, pratice and get a feel for what the unit can do before puting it to the test. This advise will save you many future headaches. Good luck & happy digging. ....
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