Go BottomSmoking Boomer TC33D
 | Jeff B
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-10-27 20959
I've got a smoking Boomer TC33D and had seen references to a "Smoke Screw" in earlier posts. Does anyone know where the screw is located and what the adjustment procedure is? Thanks in advance for the help.
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| Bradey
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-27 20960
I had seen similar mentions in posts. Not to throw cold water on your idea, but let me relate a little tidbit I heard when I was shopping for a Boomer. I mentioned a smoke screw adjustment to a NH dealer after noticing smoke on startup. (I've come to the conclusion, at least in my limited experience, this is fairly normal among most tractors I've seen.) He said that owners shouldn't be making this adjustment. That it's factory set and any tinkering with it can affect your horsepower. I'm just passing it on for what it's worth, one dealer's opinion. ....
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| Rick Seymour
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 40
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2000-10-28 20962
Jeff, When & for how long does it smoke? In "cooler" temps my TC29D smokes at startup for a few seconds. As it warms up the smoke goes away & at operating temps it never smokes. I would consider this normal for most diesels & have observed it on everything from 3 cyl boat and tractor engines all the way to a 12V72 Detroit Diesel. I am not a mechanic, it is just what I have observed. I agree w/Bradley & would not mess with the "smoke screw". ....
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| Jeff B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-28 20965
It blows dark gray smoke heavily for about 5 minutes regardless of outside temperature, then lightly after it warms up. At the beginning of the warm up, it also runs roughly, like its missing randomly. It smooths out after a couple of minutes. Only happens on the first start of the day. I'm using #2 diesel with stabilizer in it. My thinking on this is that I use the tractor at 7500 ft altitude, which is 2500 ft higher than my dealer (where it smoked significantly less) and probably quite a bit higher than at the factory where is was initially adjusted. I'd read in past postings that the screw was an air-fuel mixture adjustment, and thought it might need to be tweaked for my altitude. I don't want to mess with it unless I can learn the proper method, else I'd end up running the engine too lean. -Jeff ....
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| Mike K
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-29 21005
I believe your problem is probably due to the altitude adjustment as well as using number 2 diesel fuel.Even though you are using additives, number 2 is not recommended. I would change fuel and see if the problem improves.I live at sea level and do not have smoking problems.Also make sure your temperature guage does rise some, the thermostat may be stuck not allowing tractor to run at the correct temperature. This could cause engine to smoke because when the cylinder wall temperature is cold, it will not allow complete combustion of fuel. ....
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| John Shade
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2000-10-29 21007
I suggest having a dealer check the tractor. With respect to fuel, there have been many posts on the subject at this site. Without looking them up, I thought that #2 fuel was recomended for these small diesels. Isn't that what most fuel suppliers sell at the pump? Does that sound correct to you expects. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-10-29 21010
OK, Mike, what fuel IS recommended? I'm like John. I never heard of a different fuel being recommended for altitude; just going to number 1 in very cold weather. ....
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| Jeff B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-30 21022
Manual says #2 is ok above 40 deg, #1 for under 40 deg or over 5000 ft altitude. I've been using #2 with stabilizer because its 30 minutes to nearest pump. #1 is an hour away. Should I invest in a larger fuel container and make the longer trek for #1? - Jeff ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-10-30 21023
Thanks for the information, Jeff. That's another new one to me. My Kubota manual calls for #2 diesel above 14F and #1 below 14F, but I don't find any mention of altitude. Of course I live at about a 400 foot altitude. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2000-10-30 21025
Usually following manuals won't hurt you, but sometimes you can end up doing things that aren't necessary. If you want to use #1, and accept the moderate loss of power or boosting it with a celtane additive, then check out nearby heating oil dealers. Some dealers admit their furnace oil actually is #1 diesel. You might want to try a tank or so of #1 and see what happens.
Before committing yourself to #1, you might want to check out some other things that might produce what you describe. At least I'd want to make sure that the reason that the tractor smoked less at the dealer was not that it was a lot warmer day there than where you usually run the tractor. I'm a little short on my diesel theory, but some of the things that can produce some of what you describe are: a bad glow plug, air in the fuel line, low compression (a cylinder never comes up to operating temperature), bad injector patterns. Other causes might be poor injector pump engine or spill timing. And the list goes on, including the engine governor. You should be able to tell I'm mostly reading from my repair manual.
Regarding the question about fuel air mixture. I thought about it, and the idea of fuel/air mixture may be more of a gas engine concept. Could be wrong, but I think that diesel engine RPM is entirely determined by load and fuel delivery. Diesels, unlike gas engines, do not have throttle valves or other devices other than RPM to change the airflow through the engine, so fuel delivery would be the only other variable. An injector pump is a variable displacement pump that is controlled by the throttle, and increasing or decreasing fuel would be equivalent to a throttle change. I suspect that if the pump supplies too much fuel for the thin air, then the engine would just run at a higher RPM. Hope somebody will straighten me out if I'm wrong. Oh yes, I used to camp in Colorado at those altitudes. I remember the beans were cold before they hit the plate, and the coffee never got hot. I imagine a diesel has to struggle to cope as well.
....
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| Mike K
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-31 21059
Well Birrrd,
As I recall number 2 is home heating oil( maybe I'm getting my numbers mixed up)but I can tell you from years of repairing these tractors that home heating fuel (number2?) does not burn the best and does not lubricate the injection pump the best(I dont care if the manufaturer recommends it. They probably do because of the rural population that owns tractors and cannot easily get to a better source). I never mentioned that there was a different fuel for high altitude. You will find that most large equipment manufaturers have to compensate for high altitude with such things as adding turbo chargers to the engine in order to get more air into the engine.Since the gentlemen who owns this tractor cannot change his location then maybe by trying another type of diesel fuel may help his problem. I also feel that if the engine is not running hot enough then this will cause the engine to smoke. As always there could be a mechanical problem with the tractor and it should be checked out by the dealer. I'm shure they are aware of problems that do exist in selling machines at a higher altitude. Thats all I have to say about that. ....
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| Jeff B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-10-31 21064
Thanks to all for the advice. I've checked to make sure the temp gauge does come up into the normal range. I'm ok there. I also bled the fuel system and injector lines to eliminate air in the system as a possibility. I'll give #1 a try as soon as this tank is gone. My 50 hr service is coming up and I'll have the dealer check the other possibilities too. - Jeff ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-11-01 21084
The #1 or #2 question was me. I sure thought furnace oil was #1, but that may have been oilstove oil that was mentioned to me. At any rate, most oil dealers around here have both.
If it was me, getting #1 diesel would have to be real inconvenient for me before I'd use furnace or stove oil. If I did, I do have an in-line 10 micron filter Id run it through and would add a fuel conditioner for the pump lubrication. The results still might not be as good as actual diesel fuel. Fortunately, I have sources of both off road #1 and #2 fairly close. The off road #1 is used in commercial emergency back up generators. If you're trying to find off road #1 and you're in a cold area, check where the nearest hospital gets is generator fuel.
....
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| DavidV
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-11-01 21101
Regarding #1 vs #2 fuel: During the winter the oil dealers in my neck of the woods (northern Illinois) sell a mixed fuel for diesel tractors vs the unmixed during the summer. Some dealers use chemicals instead of mixing. My point is that the other (don't remember which is "normal" diesel) should not be used by itself according to the dealers here who have to deal with temps as low as -20 degrees.
DaveV ....
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| Jeff B
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-11-03 21201
I did a little research on the web on #1 vs. #2 diesel fuels and heating oils. Bottom line is that they are all fuel oils. The specs for #1 and #2 diesel fuels are governed by the standard ASTM D975. The specs for #1 and #2 heating oils are governed by the standard ASTM D396. Some vendors sell a fuel oil as meeting both (for example) the #2 diesel fuel standard and the #2 heating oil standard. Others, like Mobil, sell their #2 heating oil and #2 diesel fuel as two separate products. Here's what Mobil says about their #1 diesel fuel:
Mobil #1 Diesel Fuel (LS) is a low sulfur diesel fuel designed to meet the requirements of ASTM D975 Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils, grade No. 1-D, low sulfur. Mobil #1 Diesel Fuel (LS) is the special-purpose grade of diesel fuel for use in all heavy-duty diesel applications requiring higher volatility or better cold weather performance than a #2 grade diesel fuel.
Cetane Number 40 min CN
Gravity @ 60° F 35 min ° API
Total Sulfur 0.05 max Wt %
Flash Point 100 min ° F
Viscosity @ 104° F 1.3/2.4 min/max cSt
Cloud Point -25 max ° F
And here's what they say about their #2 diesel fuel:
Mobil #2 Diesel Fuel (LS) is a low sulfur diesel fuel designed to meet the requirements of ASTM D975 Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils, grade No. 2-D, low sulfur. Mobil #2 Diesel Fuel (LS) is the everyday grade of diesel fuel for use in all heavy-duty diesel applications.
Cetane Number 40 min CN
Gravity @ 60° F 30 min ° API
Total Sulfur 0.05 max Wt %
Flash Point 125 min ° F
Viscosity @ 104° F 1.9/4.1 min/max cSt
Northeast Fuel
Cloud Point (Apr-Aug) 20 max ° F
Cloud Point (Sept-Mar) 15 max ° F
Midwest Fuel
Cloud Point (Mar-July) 20 max ° F
Cloud Point (Aug-Feb) 15 max ° F
The main differences seem to be the flash point (higher for #2) and the cloud point (lower for #1). The cloud point is the temperature where the wax contained in the fuel starts to crystalize and become visible, and its the wax crystals that clog filters and otherwise cause flow problems. Cetane number is the same for both fuels and is a measure of the ignition quality. Mobil also states that the energy/gal for #2 diesel fuel is generally higher than for #1, but doesn't quantify that with numbers. In some areas, winter blends of #1 and #2 diesel fuels (or #2 and additives) are sold, and there is a premium grade of #2 diesel fuel with better "lubricity", etc.
Thought this might be useful. - Jeff ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-11-04 21211
Jeff - thanks for the note. There were some things I didn't know. I always thought that #1 didn't have a gelling problem. Since it's got a cloud point, I guess it could gel at very low temperatures and an anti-gel additive still should be used. I always thought of #1 as the stuff used in the winter that gave a bit less power but didn't gel. I wasn’t aware that the higher volatility also would help cold weather starts.
I've got a supplier of off-road #1 near here, and I guess I'll switch over this winter. Besides pretty soon it'll snow and then I'll have more power than traction and can afford to give up a bit of power.
I think that some dealers that sell both diesel and heating fuel sell the same thing for diesel fuel and heating oil. Since diesel would be the more particular use, I imaging the fuel would conform to diesel fuel specs. I've heard that a dealer will tell you if you ask. Of course, there is no road tax on heating oil, and it should be used only in off-road vehicles. ....
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