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 | AndyinNH
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2003-02-11 49076
I am considering a compact / sub-compact w/ FEL & 60mmm. I like both the NH-TC21 and the Kubota BX2200. Is the only advantage the fact that I could put a Hoe on the TC18 later if I need it?
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| JackHerr
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 46 SE PA
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2003-02-11 49081
I like the TC21 for its "true" Cat. I, three-point hitch. The TC21 has about twice the three-point lift capacity, as well (680# vs. 1,265#). It gets my vote.
However, the BX22 has a nice, integrated backhoe option...
Just wanted to add to the confusion. ....
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| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
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2003-02-11 49091
Andy, Trust me. If you can possibly afford a TC24D with the 12 LA loader, grab it and don't look back. It is one sweet machine. The TC series is a compact class I. The BX series is a sub compact. It is a great workhorse, but it can't do what a class I can do. To be equal you need to compare the Kubota B7500 to the New Holland series. I would shop around, keep my mind open and ask a lot of questions. Are you sure either of these machines are right for your property? So many are lured by a low price to find out the machine (any brand) doesn't do what they anticipated. Then they take a hit selling the first machine to get what they should have got in the first place and end up spending much more in the long run. Looking is half the fun - Enjoy
Pacesetter
PS: I'm in New England, I can help with what I've found about local dealers, but only in a private eMail. Don't want any lawyers after me!!! ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2003-02-11 49098
Andy, I suppose this debate will go on forever, but you are right to compare the TC 21 and the BX as they are the same class of tractor.
The only feature I can see that is different between the two is the boomer has split brakes.
Most people never use them. And even using the brakes the Boomer has a turning radius of 81 inches and the BX turns in 90 inches.
Find the one that fits you best. Last time I checked a small Boomer with a hoe was $21K + , you can probably find a BX22 with a hoe for $16K or a bit less. ....
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| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
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2003-02-12 49110
You've got one up on me Mark, I see you're in the market for a BX22 and I'm not. The question was regarding a BX2200, which is not compatible with a BH. The TC21 can have a 516 or 517 BH added after the purchase. The BX22 is only available as a complete TLB package. BX2200 is listed as a sub-compact on Kubota's web site. TC18, 21 & 24 are listed as compacts on New Holland's. To me at least the BX2200, Massey GC2300 and JD 2210 are sub-compact. Kioti's upcoming CK20 is supposed to be, but if it is, it's on steroids. One of the biggest differences besides brakes is tire sizes and types. On the three sub-compacts there are no R4 tire options. The bar tires available are not really an R1 AG tire, at least they aren't called that and sure don't look it. Some 3 PT implements like certan post hole diggers don't have enough clearance on a BX2200. The difference in ground clearance between the BX and TC is about 4" or over 50% more for the TC. To me that shows a sub-compact is really designed for fairly smooth gravel or lawns. Certainly not the ruts I have in places. With this in mind I still say the B7500 is a better comparison to the TC21 than the BX2200. The size, tires, brakes and ground clearance are similar. Both can have backhoes added after purchase. If I'm wrong, I don't know what NH offers that compares to the B7500. As for price, no one today, even JD can sell similar products for $5K more. If it is accurate, I'm sure there are some justifications for it. Again, please take this from where it comes. I'm not in the market for a tractor this small and wouldn't even consider one if I ever intended to use it for any serious backhoe work.
JMHO Pacesetter ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-02-12 49117
Sorry, I saw BX and backhoe in the same sentence and thought that was part of the discussion.
If Kubota was marketing the TC18 and TC21 they would probably call them subcompacts and that is my point.
You are right about the extra 4 inches of ground clearance, but guess what happens to that when you sling a sub-frame into the picture? ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-02-12 49122
Pacesetter, I wanted to comment about the "serious backhoe work" scenario.
Do you think another brand of 1500 pound tractor with a 6 foot hoe is going to significantly out-perform the BX?
If I wanted to do some serious work with a backhoe I wouldn't use a BX either. I would get something with twice the horsepower and three time the weight.
The BX and the TC's are homeowners/hobby farm machines, not contractors tools. ....
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| Cletus
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-12 49125
Mark-
In referring to the BX22 as a "hobby machine", have you become disenchanted with yours, or do you simply mean that big yellow work requires big yellow machines ? I have not been able to find a rental yard to test one out for my needs. A salesman did offer to bring one out for a test project. I may take him up on it, but I would like you to clarify what you mean as "hobby activity" if you don t mind. ....
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| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
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2003-02-12 49129
Mark,
"If Kubota was marketing the TC18 and TC21 they would probably call them subcompacts and that is my point."
I beg to differ, A B7500 has a 59" wheelbase, is 42" wide and 90" long with no 3PT hitch and has 12" ground clearance. The TC21 is 106" long with a 3PT, has a 55" wheelbase, over 10" ground clearance and is 41" wide. Kubota markets the B7500 as a compact, I would suggest they would market a TC21 the same.
"You are right about the extra 4 inches of ground clearance, but guess what happens to that when you sling a sub-frame into the picture?"
There is a lot of extra beef under a BX22, however it doesn't detract from the ground clearance compared to a BX2200. they are both the same at 6.7"
"Do you think another brand of 1500 pound tractor with a 6 foot hoe is going to significantly out-perform the BX?"
I am NOT implying that is the case at all. If I only had my front three acres and all the major work were done so that I was only going to maintain my front property. If I were to take on small projects here and there, a BX22 would be high on my list, if not at the top.
"The BX and the TC's are homeowners/hobby farm machines, not contractors tools."
See, YOU realize it has it's limitations and I realize it has it's limitations. It WON'T do what a 40HP #4500 class III will, we both agree on that. My point is do Andy and Cletus realize that and to what extent?
It's on both of them now, they need to say what their respective properties are like and what their intentions are with the machine. Then we can give a more accurate opinion.
Pacesetter
....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-02-12 49132
Pacesetter:
I think we are saying the same thing in different words. And you seem to agree that the BX and the TC's have the same wheel base, similar operating weights, horsepower and general capabilities. It is just not clear to me why one is a "sub" and the other not.
Cletus:
No I don't mind clarifying my words. People do become disenchanted with their purchases, but in this case I am not one of them. I simply have a realistic view of what a given piece of equipment can be expected to do.
I know you have read some of these threads where someone buys a 13 horse grey market tractor and then wonders if it will pull a three bottom plow.
An experienced dirt excavator guy I know always says there is nothing you can do with a ten yard drag line that you can't also do with a teaspoon. Just takes a lot longer.
With the exception of excavating big boulders or breaking very, very hard ground, I think my little backhoe will do the same jobs. It just takes more time.
My tractors do not and cannot compete with big yellow excavators. But they do make one hell of a showing against a wheelbarrow and a shovel.
If you are farming 160 acres a TC21 is not your tractor. If your "farm" is 2 or 5 acres and a couple of horses, the TC may be right up your alley.
To use a baseball analogy, our compact tractors are like utility infielders. These guys are generally small, lightweight and fast, but usually don't have the power to hit out of the park with a single swat.
Nor do they do highly specialized jobs like pitching or catching.
But they can do 80 percent of the jobs that can be done on a team and do many jobs the heavy hitters are ill equipped or just too big to do.
....
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| Yerbyra
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 32 Opelika Alabama
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2003-02-12 49138
Mark,you just answered the compact question!very well said. ....
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| cletus
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-12 49140
Pacesetter-
I currently have about 3 acres, 1/2 cleared. I have a 3/10ths mile gravel drive in the midst of woods. I frequently have trees across drive. I can chain saw and drag them out according to tractor ability. I have stumping to do, and will take my time to do it. I have compacted soil in my region with fair amount of limestone and slate. Needs for digging include trenching for drain tile and water channeling, propane lines, and light construction home improvement type work, plowing snow. I can t imagine that it can efficiently dig a garage foundation. My first thought would be to rent bigger machine for the day, but maybe I am wrong. I know bigger equals faster, but I have time. I am planning on purchasing a small 5+ acre farmette where I will hopefully stay the rest of my days. Mostly cleared, so 5 acres of mowing added to above chores. That is why I am trying to find the all purpose machine that really is "all purpose capable", even though it may be slow. The best way to describe what I need, (the smallest tractor I can get away with to accomplish the above in reasonable time). Thanks for advice. ....
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| Cletus
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-12 49142
Mark-
Just read your post. I like the analogy. The 80% infielder analogy is exactly my target for the machine. Time is not my enemy. The BX22 looked much bigger in person than the photos made it look, so I feel better about it than initially.I like the universal utility capability. I don t know half what you know about technical aspects, so I take comfort in your answer. I just wanted to make sure it is a workhorse and not as many naysayers contend, a toy.
Thanks again ....
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| Pacesetter
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 178 Maine
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2003-02-12 49160
Mark, I think the baseball analogy is great! It's important for a prospective owner to realize what position he's getting. As long as he's realistic about what he wants to do with the unit and what it's capabilities are - he's a winner.
As for Class I, II or III compact or sub compact, I think that's up to the manufacturers to say. The field is so muddled, I defy anyone to come up with an accurate definition that can't be challenged by someone.
Cletus - I think a BX22 or BX2200 are both great and would work in your circumstance. You just have to judge for yourself how much use you'll get out of the backhoe. Good luck in your decision. Hey! where's Andy??????? :-)
He started all this!
Pacesetter ....
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| AndyinNH
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-14 49254
Well, I have a lot to chew on. I live in New Hampshire and own 9 acres. 1 acre is grass w/ house and a 400 foot driveway w/ oval and parking area to plow/snowblow. I was considering a 18hp Husky riding mower w/ Berco snowblower. However, that will not cover any "utility" work or digging around I anticipate. I am planning on clearing a 2 acres for a deer food plot/orchard. Maybe I should consider somthing bigger than the TC21 or BX22??? ....
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| AndyinNH
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-14 49255
That is.....I probably should buy a 10-15 hp Ridermower for cutting grass & pay the plow guy for a couple more seasons and then.....when the budget allows....buy a 30hp tractor for the heavy stuff.
Thanks for all the replys ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-02-14 49256
Andy;
I would look at the new Kioti and see if the price meets you expectations. It has the weight to be a good alround tractor in the 20HP class and the price would be near the 10K mark.
Peters ....
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| RichT
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 33 SOCAL
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2003-02-19 49585
cletus-
I don't have as much acreage as you do but your requirements seem very similar to the specs I used when I shopped for a compact tractor. I ended up with the BX22 and am very happy with it. My primary goal was to take the burden off my 50yr old back, legs, and arms. After that I needed a tractor which would maneuver around my 2 acres, backyard, and bring hydraulic power to my choirs.
The ability to easily detach/attach the FEL and BH have been an unanticipated plus for me. I adapted a cat0 Gannon rollover to use with the BX22 and maintain my horse arena. The BX moves in/out of stalls, barns, and gates with ease.
You mentioned something about a garage foundation. I'm nearing completion of digging a foundation for a 2+ car detached garage. My neighbors commercial JD backhoe would have done the job much faster, but the BX is doing just fine. I've used it to pull tree stumps, dig irrigation channels, and support repair to part of my roof damaged by termites.
My "utility infielder" makes very few errors. ....
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| Cletus
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-20 49607
Rich T-
Thanks for your post. The BX22 is sounding better and better. I looked at the literature on the Kioti CK20, it looks about the same except is heavier, less horse, more ground clearance, and FEL and HOE do not come off as easily.
I also considered bigger. I could keep my old Kubota for yard chores, and buy bigger for specialty work, but to use Mark's analogy, the tool to do 80% of the work is my target. I can rent and borrow for those one or two time a year needs.
I am happy to see that you pulled stumps and actually did dig foundation with the BX. I like being outdoors, so taking time to do the work is okay with me. I could really use that FEL this week to clear and dump the 2 ft of snow we got hit with this week. The Hoe would be helpful in digging drain trenches to channel run off away from house.
In the end, I have had very positive experiences with Kubota dealers. They have always gone out of their way to help me out, whether it was staying open beyond their closing time and waiting for me to arrive to get parts, or give technical advice on tractor problems. I am 95% decided on the BX22. I think it will fit my "utility infielder" needs well. Once again thanks for your post and good luck with your garage project.
Cletus ....
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| RichT
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 33 SOCAL
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2003-02-20 49635
Cletus-
Glad to help.
I also looked at the Kioti CK as well as the green 790 and 4100 series. All these are fine machines.
I frequently read here of the notion to always buy bigger because you'll eventually encounter a job that your compact can't do. There's certainly merit to that, but not universally. I agree with the 80% notion that Mark offered, because thats pretty much how I approached my situation.
I also got a good deal on the price. The dealer was so interested in my business he drove 100mi to pick up the unit from another dealer, cleaned and inspected, then delivered next day. I didn't get anything close to this behavior from green. Maybe just a local issue.
If you do get the BX, I highly recommend upgrading the BH stabilizer feet to larger HD rubber soled option. As far as I know they don't yet have a cover for the BX22. The BX2200 cover will work, but won't cover the FEL and BH.
....
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| Cletus
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2003-02-21 49692
Rich T-
Thanks for your suggestions. BTW, I initially looked at green as well. Like you, they just didn t seem very motivated to sell to me. My neighbor (who prefers Kubota now) said that he had same impression from local green dealer. There are lots of farm operations in my town, and the green dealers apparently see opportunity to make big green dollars by selling combines etc to the big operators. I guess we're are just "small taters" to them.
In any case, I ve got one orange salesman who said he'd bring one out to the house, give me trade in estimate on old Kubota, and put the BX22 to the test around my place to see how I like it. I can t go wrong there. I ll let you know how well the 22 works out. And hey, save a place in that new garage for you BX, it sounds like it earned it. Thanks again.
Cletus ....
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