Go BottomMF 205-4
 | tacoavian
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 North Carolina 
|
2001-11-21 33306
I have recently acquired a MF 205-4..I need some help with cold start troubles.This thing is a "bear" to get started.I have put in a new battery/fresh charged.Checked glow plug operation.Fresh fuel,etc. Nothing seems to help. Suggestions? THANKS,SAM
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| Brent Pepper
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 58 Athens Alabama
|
2001-11-21 33307
How did you check the glow plugs? Are you sure they are working? When you shut the engine off, is it difficult to restart? Don't use either to try to start it. I know a lot of people do use either, but it is not good for the smaller diesel engines.
Brent ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
|
2001-11-21 33308
Block heaters are good, but I don't really need mine until it gets very cold. Something I'd do is clean the battery terminals and the engine end of the ground cable, and check the starter/solenoid wiring as well. I might even buy a new ground cable in as heavy of gauge as I could get on general principal.
Diesels have to spin fast before they start very well. It doesn't take a very dirty contact to slow the starter a bit. Sometimes people replace ground cables with auto discount store types that are generally too light a gauge for diesels.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| tacoavian
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 North Carolina
|
2001-11-21 33311
By "cold" start,I mean 1st start of the day. At normal temperatures,say 40 degrees plus.I did try the 55A setting on my charger and I did get a better start.Although I'm not sure this is a good practice...I'll buy a new ground cable and clean all connections.Any other advice?SAM ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| BillBass
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 190 North Texas
|
2001-11-21 33313
Are you saying that the engine turns over ok, it just doesn't fire off?
You might check your fuel pump pressure. It sounds as though it may be having trouble getting fuel to the cylinders when cold. I have a JD 950 that fires off within 2 seconds of starting cranking, even when cold. And that is without even preheating the fuel (mine has a preheater rather than glow plugs).
It is also possible that your compression is low. Diesels work on the principle of auto ignition of the fuel caused by the high temperatures resulting from the high pressure in the cylinder. If the compression is low, it would be harder to get the temperatures high enough for ignition. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| tacoavian
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 North Carolina
|
2001-11-21 33320
It turns over fine. Just kinda chugs blowing black smoke then dies.After a few of the glow plug/chugging episodes it will continue to chug then it accelerates and continues to run.When it runs there's minimal smoke.And then just when I increase the engine speed ,it blows black smoke breifly then clears up. After it warms up.It starts quickly each time. THANKS for HELP,SAM ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2001-11-22 33326
I think of cold starts as around 0F. Stating problem around 40F probably indicate something's going on other than common temperature related problems.
Black smoke sometimes indicates restricted air intake. I'd change the air filter and check for other obstructions if there's any doubt about the filter's condition. I wouldn't trust the appearance of a filter. I changed mine after moderate service and accidentally stepped on the old filter. A bunch of sand ran out. The inner pleats were full of sand that was not visible when just looking the filter, and blowing the filter out with low air pressure didn't move it. I wondered how the sand got there, and then realized that loader buckets of sand go back and forth in front of the air intake all the time.
As mentioned, low compression could cause such problems. Several other things that are not too difficult to check but probably require a manual are the valve clearances and the injection pump timing. Several injector problems also might do it, but injector work is a little specialized.
Basically, a diesel shouldn't make black smoke either when starting or on acceleration. I'd describe mine as moderate and gray. A diesel will make black smoke if the fuel is turned up or if it's over-heated, but it doesn't sound like that what's going on here. However, I would note if the engine stays within a normal temperature range. Not hot enough is a problem as well.
Overall, there's a bunch of things to check the might be the problem, and maybe the tractor needs the equivalent of a tune-up to narrow down things a bit. You can’t really tell if the starter system is a problem until there is certainty that the engine works properly. On the other hand, the air filter is a cheap easy fix, so hope for that explanation.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| tacoavian
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 North Carolina
|
2001-11-22 33339
I will buy a new air filter ASAP.Which manual is the best to get? I have seen several variations on the internet.I replaced the battery cables with #2 gauge and cleaned all contacts.This seems to have helped. But, I still would like to check everything out.Like the valve adjustments.Injector timing,etc. Do you you know any web site which might have the information I need??THANKS,SAM ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2001-11-23 33353
I have a repair manual from New Holland. There are several sites such as yesterday's tractors and SSB that handle manuals but I haven't seen them. I do know that my factory repair manual seem to be intended for factory trained mechanics. Basic mechanical knowledge is assumed, and the manual often isn't especially useful in guiding novice mechanics through diagnostic procedures. However, somebody with a bit of background (such as myself) usually can figure it out. The manual does give specs, testing, adjustment and disassembly procedures, which is what are really needed. Some people say that having a parts manual also is good. I don't have one, and I have gotten tripped up a couple of times when trying to order specialty hardware parts by telephone. Repair manuals don't always give detailed exploded diagrams for all assemblies. Anyway, you might look around. Factory manuals are good, but some others may be better as teachers.
I guess you're pretty new to diesel tractors, so I'll note a couple of cold starting things (cold means 15F and lower). It's good to crack the hand throttle 1/2 to 3/4 and then back it off when the engine catches. That acts sort of like a diesel choke. Diesels aren't 'ground' like gas engines to start them. A diesel catches quickly if it's going to so fairly short bursts on the starter (with a bit more pre-heater in between) are better. A lot of cranking ends up diluting the engine oil with fuel. If it gets very cold, use of multi-grade or synthetic hydraulic and engine oil helps the starter spin faster and therefore start easier. Use of #1 diesel, which has a lower flash point than #2, also helps starting a bit. If it's a cold climate, either #1 fuel or an additive with an anti-gel compound should be used. Some summer blend #2 diesel may gel at temperatures just below freezing. The fuel may still flow, but the fuel filter may clog up with wax crystals and give you some of the symptoms described.
Diesels shouldn't be worked without a good warm-up so it's good to idle them until the temperature start coming up into the operating range. However, diesels don't warm up at slow idle speeds; in fact they may cool-down with prolonged idles around 800 rpm. I warm up mine at 1500 rpm and usually idle at 1000 - 1200 rpm. Especially after hard runs, I cool it down at 800 rpm for awhile.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
 Pics
|
2001-11-23 33357
I just took one of those in trade last month and he is right about the starting. The customer had this unit to the dealers every fall and to no avail was he able to help it. The glow plugs work as good as any, the engine gets fuel, but I don't believe it gets enough to have a successful cold start without excessive cranking. We have seen other engines that also have like problems or caracteristics. Unfortunately during development not all conditions are taken into consideration when building or designing equipment. This is not the first one of these I've seen like this, the three cylinder versions do start somewhat better but not a lot, it does seem lame to say it's the nature of the beast but it is. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2001-11-23 33360
Good note Art, but maybe not the most pleasant message. I forgot to mention in my tops and theory bit that starter fluid shouldn't be used on diesels, and NEVER EVER used on a diesel that has glow plugs. I have heard of people using WD-40 or directing a hair dryer at the air intake, but I don't know if these are helpful or advisable practices. Anything else, including an engine adjusted to spec, will likely make it as good as it's going to get. I know that adjustments like engine and pump timing shouldn't be far off in a relatively low-hour engine. I do know that the gray exhaust my 1710 puffs on acceleration was much less after the valve clearances were set at 600 hours.
It's always good to hear from dealers whose experience, unlike most of us, isn't limited to a few tractors. I think we a better mix of experience, theoretical and practical perspectives here than anywhere else.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| tacoavian
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 North Carolina
|
2001-11-24 33375
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have been in contact with a local farmer who has given me a way to keep the "bear" running on a first start up. As the engine starts to "chug",switch the key back over to the glow plugs until the engine fires up.This seems to help a lot in getting the engine to keep running.I am going to adjust the valves this morning. What about timing adjustment on a diesel? SAM ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2001-11-24 33380
The timing and the vavle adjustment both can be adjusted. I would say the vavles are the only thing that should be out of adjustment as the timing should not change with time. Your tractor just like mine was designed in the 70's at the latest and that was when diesels were going thru many changes. Some engines were still just being modified to make them work. Some were total redesigns that made big differences in start ability. When we do vavle jobs on diesels we set the valve protrusions to factory specifications and be sure all head spec's are kept to factory specs to ensure that the compression is at it's best. Your move on the glow plugs is a good call, some switches won't allow you to do that. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2001-11-25 33397
Always great to hear about finding a trick that works. I was going to mention that decompression levers (for tractors that have them) can help with cold starts. The decompression lever is pulled for a few seconds while cranking and then released. The lower compression allows the starter to turn faster, and the inertia of the engine gives a few cranks of high compression at the higher rpm. The other thing I thought of was checking the cold cranking amps rating of the new battery. Diesels take high CCA batteries, and a battery below the CCA spec won't turn the engine as fast.
Timing on a diesel is setting the valves. There also is something called 'pump timing.' Pump timing is adjusted by matching timing marks on gears under the timing gear cover. It's not adjustable except to replace the gears. Once the right teeth are matched it's done. There also is something called the 'spill time.' Spill time is the point in engine rotation where an injector turns on and the point it turns off. Spill time is adjustable on my 1710 through the coupler between the pump and the pump drive shaft. The spill time is ordinarily set when the pump is removed or replaced and doesn't change much. I suppose the coupler could loosen and allow the adjustment to wonder. It's one of the things that are checked if the tractor is hard starting and putting out considerable pale or white smoke. Otherwise it’s forgotten about. Adjustment on my 1710 requires a dial indicator.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoMF 205-4
| Smahler
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 25 Oneida New York
|
2003-03-03 50420
Just wanted to throw out there that I have a 210-4 that starts very well in super cold temps, so I dont think it is inherent with this 2cyl design. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add Photo
Go Top
Share This