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amobcp
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4 nebraska
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2004-08-29          94880

i would like to hear from other kubota gst owners. It seems everyone on here says its hst or nothing. i have operated lots of construction equipment and for the life of me can't figure why everyone goes for the hst. yes it is easy to operate for the average acreage owner but for a get the power to the ground and work this thing a gst can not be touched by a hst. i can and do out perform the hst every day... hst is nice for the ease of operation but i will take my kubota 3430 over any jd hst or even kubota hst and do more tough work than either one of them. The hst jd on the 4310 i have operated several times to me is sloppy and underpowered

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-29          94904

I don't think everyone here says it's HST or nothing, but for ease of operation, infinitely variable speed, hillside safety and resale value the HST can't be beat. Not sure what you mean by sloppy and underpowered, mine works fine and the loadmatch feature alone on JD's eHydro makes is worth it IMHO. But to each his own, I'm sure the GST works fine. It's probably a lot like the "baby duck" syndrome, people tend to buy what they learned to use and are comfortable with. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-08-29          94907

The GST is a nice trans as well as the HST. BUT the statement of out working a HST, I feel it is all in the operator. ....

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n88wrl
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 48 Clover, SC
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2004-08-30          94934

'All in the operator...' As a new HST owner I would love to hear some tips and techniques on how to maximize HST effectiveness. I love the ability to creep up to something (implement hookup) and the ease of maneuvering. My standard-xmission friends swear by those as well. 'Transmission Affinity' seems almost as strong as 'Brand Affinity' in the tractor community.

-Brian ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2004-08-30          94938

amobcp - Being that you & I use our's commercially, I completey understand what your saying & agree 100%. HST is great for a homeowner with large acreage which seems to me most of the guys on here. I have rented, demoed & used the 4310 ehydro many times. They do seem to have less power to the ground but that might just be the feel you & I are getting. As a guy who works his tractor almost everyday very hard, I would agree the GST is the only way to go! I dont know what I would do with out my foot throttle. ....

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jarndt
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 351 Northern Virginia
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2004-08-30          94939

I learned on a standard trans and used them for years. The HST on my BX, although be it a small tractor, is a massive improvement IMHO. I'd be curious to try out an HST on a larger machine with an FEL.

....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-08-30          94946

The GST is actually much like many of the larger farm tractors with the power shift transmissions. It is a great transmission and has proven it's relaibility over the last 15 years in production. The newer 12 speed is the best so far and does work very smooth. The hydro's need to be in the right range to have the power at the chosen RPM. When used that way they are tough to beat in any job even those made more for gear drive tractors. The flexibility of the hydro's speeds without use of the clutch makes a large difference. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-08-30          94993

Hey Art - I just got my L3130 back from the first service & my dealer is waiting to hear back from kubota on how to turn the service light off on my instrument panel. Would you happen to know? ....

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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2004-08-30          95001

Push the display mode and travelling mode button for more than 2 seconds while in hour meter mode. ....

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amobcp
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4 nebraska
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2004-08-30          95007

he is right i think it is on page 49 of the owners manual. I did not write this post to say that the hst is not a great product. but i wish people would understand that the gst is for the operator that has experience and it is a great trans that can really get the job done. I love this forum and am not trying to make hst owners mad but it is not the solution to the tractor trans. I will stand behind everything i have said untill somebody can out do the gst with a hst with the same experience ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-08-30          95008

You guys are all awsome!!!! Thanks for fixing my problem so quickly!!!! I also agree the gst is for the more agressive yet experienced operator. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-30          95024

I would have bought the HST anyway because I just plain like it and don't want to set myself up for the inevitable clutch job, but some of us have family members who want to use the tractor too so ease of use is important. ....

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dklopfenstein
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 125 Southern Indiana
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2004-08-30          95027

Well put...the hst is user friendly for everyone. My hst 4410 is great for me, my wife, occasional use by my in-laws, and even my daughter in a few years. It is a little like a MMM verses a 3ph finish mower, both will do the job but if you have several operators, the MMM will not be as likely to take out a fence post, swingset, or even the wall of house or shed. This is why I really did not even consider a rear mower...or a tractor without hst. Sometimes a little extra money spent can eliminate big problems in the future...and what family wants problems when they can be possible be avoided? Just a thought... ....

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grassgod
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2004-08-31          95029

I actually paid more for my GST. Mainly cause they had the HST on stock & didnt have the GST. I also had to waite weeks as apposed to taking delivery right a way. My wife uses it & finds it fairly simple. I know the hst have their problems as well like if you accidentally hit both pedals at the same time you have to waite & the most costly - replacing a hydro pump. We all have our own preferences. ....

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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2004-08-31          95040

The first tractor I drove when I started looking to buy was a Deere 790 with 9 forward and 3 reverse (If I remember right). The lack of shuttle was enough to convince me that its nearly a neccesity for what Im doing with it (loader & grading). If youve ever driven a non shuttle tractor and tried to do loader work with it, youll know the for/rev shuttles on geared trannys have brought them much closer to the HST in ease of operation.
I'll say right off the bat, I think whether you prefer a FST, GST, or HST type of tranny is just that, a preference. I got a GST for a couple of reasons.
1) Being that I got a 32 HP tractor that weighs 3200lbs (- loader & BH), I figured I could use all the HP Ive got.
2) Ive driven manual tranny vehicles for over 23 years so im not intimidated by the clutch at all. The FST and GST seemed much more natural to me than the HST. Im glad Kubota offers the GST option because if they didnt, I dont know what I would have picked. The FST actually feels better to me so I probably would have gotten that. Habit has forced me to use the clutch more than not anyway. The true saving grace of the GST has turned out to be its lack of ranges. 1 through 12, real slow to real fast, no stopping, no clutching and back down, 12 to 1. I dont go through all of the gears like that very often (hardly ever) but I do use 2 through 8 alot. I realize you can probably work an HST all day and not get out of mid range so its a little bigger advantage over an FST.

bnr(dont fear the clutch)huffman. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-08-31          95057

(don't fear the clutch)

Well I sure don't fear the clutch (I've even fixed 'em) and have never owned a car or truck with an automatic. I don't want an automatic either but sooner or later manual transmissions will go the way of the dodo. I don't like it but that's the way it is. They're already unavailable on the majority of new cars and trucks and you often have to special order a stick to get one. As far as tractors go my dealer says HST CUTs outsell gear ones 10 to 1 so I expect gears will become rarer there too.

Regarding speed variability, if you need to lay down an exact amount of spray a gear model may be either too fast or too slow whereas the HST can be set to an infinite range. ....

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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2004-08-31          95091

Wow, 10 to 1. That figure has got to include all the lawn tractors also. From what Ive seen on lots around here, at best, that figure would be 5/1.
Dont take my "dont fear the clutch" comment too serious. Like I said, I consider the FST, GST, HST choice a preference. Its whatever you want to get the job done.
Speaking of things going the way of the dodo, did you know that a lot of the newer vehicles (from about 2001 on) dont have ashtrays anymore. I just found this out from some coworkers the other day. That shows you how long its been since Ive shopped for a new vehicle. I dont smoke but I just thought that was interesting. I guess it makes sense, most smokers flip their ashes and butts out the window and keep change in the tray. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-08-31          95101

It's been a few years since I've shopped too, but even in 98 the cigarette lighter was optional on some vehicles but a "power port" was standard. I don't smoke and won't miss the lighter but ash trays are/were convenient for small items. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-08-31          95109

"HST CUTs outsell gear ones 10 to 1"

I suppose these numbers are regional. My dealer said his best sellers were gear CUTs. Then again, this area is known as "poverty flats."
Dave ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-08-31          95115

I am sure the GST is a fine transmission, but after experiences rebuilding a Deere HLR transmission and the old Ford Selectamatic; these types of transmissions I have been very leary of. I am sure HST has it short comings but sure seems very simple and simple to maintain as well as covers about every situation you can imagine. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-08-31          95118

Poverty Flats must be a pretty nice place. Around here, in poverty stricken areas, you don't see any CUTs.

They must get a better government subsidy there ;) ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-08-31          95119

I suppose I should more accurately reflect why my dealer told me. This is not an exact quote, but he something like this:

"We used to sell more gears, but lately the HSTs have been outselling the geared tractors 10 to 1. If the trend continues I wouldn't be surprised to see geared transmissions discontinuted in small tractors over the coming years".

This was an off-the-cuff comment so I'm not sure how accurate the numbers are. ....

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WPHill
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 57 Florida
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2004-08-31          95146

I have a HST and operate it commercially, and to say GST is for more aggressive and experienced operators, I would have to disagree. I know of atleast 6 people who have sold FST, GST type tractors and stepped into JD, NH or Kubota HST's. I agree with Art, in the right range with the right RPM, it's tough to beat. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-08-31          95151

"Good Greif", I thought the gear vs. hydro issue was dead and buryed, but I guess not. I'll just repeat my thing from before. Thank goodness we live in a country where we're free to make our own decisions, If you like gears, get a gear, if you like hydros, get a hydro. I'm a gearhead to the hilt, if Deere stops offering the 12/12 reverser I might do something so drastic as buying an orange or blue tractor that still offers a gear drive. Every time I trade pickups the dealer gives me that same old sob story about manual trannys being impossible to resell when I trade it in and he has a doozy on the lot with a marshmallow box that would be great for me. So I simply ask if he wants to order me a standard cab pickup with a manual tranny or if need to visit the Ford dealer next door. Funny how quickly he gets down to business and also kind of strange that my trade ins are usually sold before the dealer gets my new one in. Don't let dealers sell you something you don't want, they're not making the payments, you are. Nuff said, Frank. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2004-08-31          95154

I agree with bnrhuffman. As for you wphill...do I hear a challenge? Brrrrinnnngggg IT OOOONN!!!! LOL :) I use my kubota litterally every day. Today I planted 17 - 10' Dark American Arbs. Spread 60 yards of topsoil & Graded the whole site. This is a typical day for me. My hands are more cowardinated then my feet as is most people. Could you do in one day with your hydro what I did today with no help? I'm not trying to be arrogant or a smart **s, I just believe with the right operator The GST is the Bull of the two. The hst is perfect for the homeowner like Ken who first of all is in no rush because he doesn't have to worry about his profit marjin on the job & wants convience when doing his yard work which by the way I dont blame him. If I were using mine for stickly home use I would opt for the hst also. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-08-31          95155

Damn good way to put. The truth hurts some times folks. ....

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grassgod
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2004-08-31          95156

Frank - that way beatifull !!!! Very well put. ....

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WPHill
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 57 Florida
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2004-08-31          95205

Grasgod, I log in excess of 30 hours a week in the seat. As for today, I spread 54 yds of shell, cut in 2 driveways for concrete forms, graded a private drive in excess of 300 feet and scraped a 24 X 32 area of sod. Tomorrow I have 90 yards of dirt to spread and 2 rough grades to do. So my answer to your question is yes, I can. And my hour meter tells the story. I'am not trying to figure out how to reset my trip meter after my 50 hour service. LOL. ....

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grassgod
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2004-09-01          95224

WP - I have 93 hours on my mahchine now. I have had it a little over a month. I should have read my manuel a little more thoroughly. I guess running my company, being a father 7 a husband & maintaining my own property doesnt give me much extra time to do those things. Seeing that your from FL 7 being that your a flatlander expalins everything. If I lived there the HST would be the way to go. You deal mostly with sand. You have to buy rocks & deal on mostly level grade. On a typical lawn install here in New England, Which is usaully about 35 - 40,000 sq ft. I usually have about 20 tons of baseball sized rocks to clear out & load into the truck & haul off before I can begin to spread my topsoil. Occasionally we run into much bigger rocks. So basically landscaping in FL compared to rocky, hilly, clay infested CT is by no means simular. ....

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WPHill
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2004-09-01          95291

Grasgod, You are absolutely right, totally different conditions. I ran an excavator and dozer out of Wallingford, CT for years before moving back to FL and I know exactly where you are coming from. Just trying to make a point that the HST is a performer and not just an estate style tractor. ....

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grassgod
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2004-09-01          95312

WP - You are right also, The hydro is a performer not just an estate tractor. I just enjoy a good debate now & again :) Hope you'll attend our get together in Grove Ok in march. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-09-07          95843

Maybe every HST is not as good as the next, but I can't figure out when someone thinks Hst is less of a machine. I guess it is lack of real world experience. If HST in not so great, why is it the used in the top end John Deere dozers and track loaders? Why is it used without any other option is Kubota's Flagship industrial duty L48 TLB, and their industrial line of articualated loaders? Why don't skid loaders have a glide shift or a clutch? (could you imagine) Maybe guys who spend 8+ hour days, 5+ day weeks, in the operators seat, and nowhere else, know what works best. I am not one of these guys, but I agree with what is being produced. I had a Kubota L48 for two years and loved it. I have a Kubota R520 articulated and it is as close to perfection as any machine I have driven. It is common to see 6,000 hours on one and life left to give. Nothing is more gentle to operate and nothing is easier on the machine. The hydraulics buffer the rest of the drive train more than any other tranny. Any one watching the path of large farm tractors, some are going with a cvt. Continuously variable transmission. Not quite a HST but offers less power loss for heavy tillage. ....

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Art White
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2004-09-08          95870

Thank goodness that we live in america! I like having the choices of the transmissions as not everyone is alike and we all have different needs! I had a fellow that was in a wheel chair and fixed a GST that he could run with limited amount of leg use or a handle we divised to depress the clutch. We have done simuliar modifications on hydro's for people to operate when the choice of a gear transmission is not available. There are definitely different performance levels of hydro's pull or push just like the shifting of a gear drive where one gear might be to slow or to fast. The operator comfort levels and chores are what sets the need for different styles of transmissions. Chief, the engineer that designed the Ford selecto-speed left there when Henry wouldn't let him have more money to perfect his invention and went to work for JD! The original 8 speed power shift was his more perfected design that was introduced in the 4000 series tractors in the late sixties. The original slecto-speed was certainly a customer ginea pig unit! ....

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Murf
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2004-09-08          95877

There is definitely significant (to me anyways) mechanical losses with a HST over a GST.

We have only recently started using HST's in any numbers in our fleet, and that was because of customer insistance only.

In certain tasks, such as line-hauling loaded dump wagons, or snow-plowing sidewalks, we found that the HST's were consistantly much slower than the GST's, as the ambient and/or hydraulic fluid temperatures rose the losses became even greater. This however is a pretty thin slice of the entire list of tasks a machine is required to perform.

All round it is a pretty convenient feature though.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2004-09-08          95878

Hey Ted - Can you posta pic of Bakini bait? I would love to see it. ....

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Murf
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2004-09-08          95881

Sure, I know I have some around here somewhere in press clippings and such.

I have sold it now, but the new owner wanted permission to leave the name.

I'm trying to convince my good wife that we 'need' another boat, other than the little putt-putt we still have (pic. # 5).

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2004-09-08          95890

ted - Thats a sea doo jet boat right? I hear those things are alot of fun. I was tolde they do about 45 - 50 mph. is that true? ....

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bnrhuffman
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2004-09-08          95894

Why is Kubota the only CUT manufacturer to make the GST
or am I missing something? Is there not much market for it or has Kubota developed their own market? It would seem that if they sold well and had a dedicated following, as illistrated by this thread, that JD, NH and the others would offer a GST type of tranny.
Im not busting on GSTs. I like mine and I think there is definately a place for it. Im just curious.
Is it because people consider it a compromise tranny. Thats what I thought when I bought it, but after operating it some, I now see that its got its own strong points that arent a compromise at all and it stands on its own. ....

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Murf
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2004-09-08          95902

Grass, yes it's a Sea-Doo boat, fun isn't anywhere close to describing it. It's called a Speedster for a reason, 62mph out of the box, after a few little tweaks, 70++mph no problem.

Each passenger has 2 grab handles, the wife calls them "Oh my God hold on handles", and a bolster for each foot, they are COMPLETELY necessary. I can roll into the wake of a big cruiser at 30'ish mph and punch the throttle, the entire boat will jump VERY clear of the water. I have looked DOWN at several fly-bridges from it.

Because it is water-jet powered the response and handling are unequalled. It will do a flat spin at 50+mph no problem, unless my wife is in the boat that is, LOL.

Relatively speaking though the little yellow machine on the truck is capable of much more 'smiles per hour'.

bnr, I think it is one of those corporate philosophy things, like Subaru and AWD cars. Nobody else seems to think it is important enough to produce them.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2004-09-08          95911

Dam Murph!!! Sounds like your a crazy nut!! Looks like I need to make a trip to toronto to get a ride in that little death trap ;) ....

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AnnBrush
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2004-09-08          95914

I will add my bit seeing as we are filling the fountain here. I have driven gear and HST machines, I was nervous about buying my current and first HST. I felt I needed a physical mechanical linkage and all that stuff. Well blow me down, I LOVE the HST. Couple of things: I don't care about fuel economy or loss of power I seem to have enough to do what is needed. But here is what I love about the HST that you can't do with a gear - take your foot off the pedal and it stops even down a slope, I have to use the clutch and the brake to do that on a GST. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-09-08          95922

I don't know much about the GST, but isn't it kinda sorta like JD's ePowrReverser transmission? ....

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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2004-09-08          95934

I dont know. Hows the Epower reverser work? I thought it was just an electronic shuttle. Doesnt it still have ranges? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-09-08          95936

The JD SyncShift is like a car, three speed ranges and three gears for a total of nine forward speeds and three reverse. You can shift the three gears on the fly with this, but you have to stop to change ranges.

The JD PowrReverser style transmissions have three speed ranges and four gears with a forward/reverse lever to provide twelve forward and twelve reverse speeds. You can change gears on-the-fly but machine motion must stop to change ranges. Forward/Reverse is selected on the fly by flipping a lever on the dash.

How does the GST work? ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2004-09-08          95944

Ken - The gst has a shuttle shift lever on the left side of the steering column, Kinda like an automatic car only on the opposite side. When the lever is all the way forward, the machine goes forward, the middle is neutral & when the lever is back, the machine is in reverse. You can do this on the fly without the clutch. They recommend using the clutch for forward / reverse moves when scopping into a pile with the loader. I have done laoder work without the clutch & it seems just fine. Now on your left side you have a glide shifter & thats exactly how it works. You slide the lever ino the desired speed as you are moving without the clutch. You can slide it forward to go faster & back to go slower & you do this on the fly. the aspect i like the best about a gear tranny for me is the " cruise control" effect in every speed. It keeps me moving at a steady speed. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-09-08          95947

In NH large tractors they do have a range less trans that is electronic. You can shift manually of set it for automatic. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2004-09-08          95948

I believe Kubota is alone with the GST (power shift, power shuttle) type tranny in a CUT. Others have offered power shuttle but it does not provide for gear changes without a clutch. Yanmar is the first large company I know of to offer a power shift/shuttle CUT. It may have been early eighties or so. It had 3 ranges and in each range you could shift from a standstill R,N,1,2,3, without a clutch. I have a 33 HP version of this still. One drawback is having to go from 3-2-1 before reverse Large tractors still commonly have powershift. ....

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