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 | mattdavid
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Scenery Hill, Pa 
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2004-03-23 80792
Well, I finally got to test drive "dig" with the BX23.
O H M Y G O O D N E S S ! ! WHAT A TOY! I'm completely confused now on what I thought I was going to do. I must say, and I'm not being proud, I could dig faster by hand with a shovel than this machine could. Grass-cutter, yes; carry hay bales (like in the brochure); yes; but dig your own grave? I better start now, 'cause it will take me that long. I know my opinion is skewwed because of the Bobcat rentals I had. Now THAT machine could dig! Any further posts of mine on the Kubota board will entail nothing more than grass cutting, vermiculite loading and basket weaving.
Matt
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2004-03-23 80793
mattdavid I would guess you are 100% correct. But being 25 years old with a size 3 hat and a 54 jacket won't last forever.
On a really hot day with the toy you might be slow but you won't break a sweat. When you get really old "like 40" the toy will probably work ok too.
I do agree also about other machines. I use large excavators at work. But at home I still do not sweat digging a trench, stump or flower bed...
Enjoy the toy ....
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| lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
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2004-03-23 80796
you also have to match apples with apples. I'm by far being an expert, I do have about many, many thousands of hours (in the last thirty years)running JOhn Deere 710 hoe's and occasionally a 160/230 excavator. I know I "want" my Bradco 511 to dig just like the 710 will. It isn't going to happen. You're running a hoe off of one pump, whatever size it is, and it will be slow digging. On my Mahindra, it has a 7.4 GPM main pump which barely would get this hoe to move,never mind dig. I now have the prototype which recently turned to a new option, PTO pump at 14 GPM, and now the hoe is awesome to run. It still is running off one pump as the big machine use three pumps. SO, even still,lacking a pump for the swing circuit, these compact tractor hoes will be slower to operate. ....
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| mattdavid
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Scenery Hill, Pa
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2004-03-23 80798
I know there will be a flood of replies defending the little BX 23 hoe; I'm glad those users are happy. My point is "my" expectations were dashed and obviously.......it will never occupy space in my barn.
Matt ....
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| lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
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2004-03-23 80799
Matt
I certainly understand as I feel every time I use my hoe, that I expect much more than it is capable of producing. I guess this is what happens when one runs the big machines. expect the same thign at home.. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2004-03-23 80813
Many larger backhoe units can be run at 1/2 throttle and work fine. The BX takes at least 3/4 for backhoe work, where were you running it? There is no miracle when you run a unit that is designed as a hyraulic machine ie; skid steer vs a tractor. My expectations came from running other hoes that were comparable and the BX fits. When running a BX it doesn't do what a excavator can make short work out of. The price does have something to do with it too! There is not a better unit out there for the money anyway you look at it. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-03-23 80824
The last big hole (4x4 and 6 feet deep) I dug with my BX was to excavate a broken waterline.
The two plumbers I was working with had just done a similar job where it took two of them 1 and 1/2 days to dig the hole with shovels and another 1/2 day to repair the pipe and re-fill the hole.
I dug the hole with the BX in less than an hour and we did the whole job in less than one afternoon.
I think you have a hose pinched. (No not you personally... the tractor!) I had the same problem with my BX when it was new. It it real easy to do if you are not careful when mounting the backhoe. ....
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| Granite
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1 Massachusetts
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2004-03-23 80864
Ok, now I am worried. I've settled on the BX23 and am looking forward to using the BH on my clay soil (trying to save my back). I've run heavy equipment and I know this is not the same but I was hoping that I could dig some h20 trenches etc. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-03-23 80901
Granite, I don't think you will be disappointed. If my BX (and my new JD46) will bust through the hardpan on my land it will do the job for you.
If you have run the big stuff you already know that with the right technique you can damn near dig solid rock.
Let not your heart be troubled. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-03-24 80912
mattdavid I really was not defending the little orange hoe. I was remarking about how much easier something that runs on diesel is vs a shovel.
You are right the little ones are darn right small and somewhat slow. But it is better than waiting for a contractor and much better than a wheelbarrow and shovel. But that is just my opnion.
We have guys at work making in excess of $28.00 per hour whine when they have to run a smaller machine and it takes longer to dig and they have 4-5 hours of OT to finish the job. GO FIGURE!
Granite it does take some patience to get used to the baby machines. Not many things will beat a 25+ ton excavator. Actually this miniture 4400 and 48 hoe teaches me to work smarter, check grades more often. I do not have instant movement, I can not get across trenches, won't even go into reach, only 180 degree swing. I have to do things better the first time or I end up shoveling or refilling. It's nice when there are 3-4 guys on the ground shooting grades etc. At home it's just me and my little toy. A NICE RELAXING AFTERNOON!
....
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| mattdavid
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Scenery Hill, Pa
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2004-03-24 80913
I'm sure technique is half the battle and I'm also sure my technique is wanting since I'm a 'hoe newbee. I need to remove some big trees (dig them up with baby-hoe?) and I wanted this machine to do it; realizing it would take a while. That expectation was impractical. The problem is (for me), my immediate work is big, and once it's done (with rented equip), I will only "need" the loader for around the barn, so I really shouldn't have been looking at the BX23 in the first place. I still may buy the BX2230 because I think it's a superior little tractor and I will make much use of the 3pt/mower/loader. But I'm gonna rent a large bobcat (w/hoe) to do my big work first!
Matt ....
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| Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 110 New England
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2004-03-24 80917
Dear Matt, it is refreshing to hear that you understand the limits of the little Kubota, some people would never admit that they underestimated their needs. While you have said you used a larger skid steer machine before, be well advised that there is no substitute for a full-size machine when doing full-size work.
Although I have dug out hundreds of stumps using CUT's, for my demanding customers I usually grind out the big ones. Using a Vermeer SC252 I can reduce a four ft. dia. stump to chips in about a half hour or so. I blow the chips into my loader bucket (to be dumped into my truck), then fill the socket left after grinding with soil. Remember, digging out a stump leaves quite a mess, and if you are determined to dig rather than grind, then a mid-size (10,000 lb) excavator on tracks will out dig a Bobcat any day.
You may want to consider layering or staging your work. First comes the heavy equipment like excavator work, then the skid steer, then go smaller. You might find this approach the most economical in the long run. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-03-24 80918
MattDavid, What are big tree stumps? Everyone has a learning curve, we just hate to see people frustrated with there machinery here. ....
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| mattdavid
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Scenery Hill, Pa
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2004-03-24 80937
Art,
It's not so much the size of the stump/tree, but the species that makes the difference. Where I live, mainly wild cherry, locust and elm prevail. I never saw any size cherry I couldn't push over with the Bobcat (whole tree, not stump) because they have such a shallow root base, but the elm is a different story! Even a small elm (6" dia) will break off before giving up it's capillary root network. I think Abbeywoods had the right idea, big machine first; then Bobcat; then finish up. Once again, the deficiency is mine, not the BX23's.
Matt ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-03-24 80943
I still say there was something wrong with the machine you were using. It is not THAT slow or THAT weak.
....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-03-24 80993
You are right as to the tree's! To dig up an Elm is as bad as trying to split it with a Go-devil, there is nothing easy with Elm. I would not say that your BX might not be all it could be, and I do often recommend a big tool for a weekend and save the fine work for the compacts. The BX's do require near full throttle operation for the hoe to work well. ....
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