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 | plugger
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 12 wapum pa 
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2004-01-02 72930
Barnee, What ever become of youre cooling system test? I have the MX5000 with the gauge doing same as your's no matter how hard I work it.
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 | BARNEE
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 64 South Texas
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2004-01-02 72933
Plugger, i posted what i found out on the original thread if you want to read details. The short story is i'm still not sure what's going on. I used one of those infrared temperature readers to monitor temps. & couln't get the engine temp up to the 175 deg thermostat with the tractor just sitting & on fast idle. There was a 40-50 deg diff in temp from the thermostat inlet to outlet which tells me it's not opening, but the inlet temp never got above 170 deg, below the setting, so that's expected. It's still pretty cool down here so i figured i try again once the weather warms up. Also, i'll be able to run the cutter so that will put a good load on the tractor & give me a better idea. It definitely doesn't warm up & go onto the thermostat like a car does, but from what others say, that is normal. I have seen where it will actually cool off if i let it sit at slow idle after working it a little. I know this ain't much help. Maybe you can talk to your dealer & let me (us) know what he says about it. Mine claims it's normal for my tractor. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2004-01-02 72935
BARNEE, from what you are describing; that sure does sound like a bad or no stat installed. They are cheap and easy to replace. Try changing the thermostat out with a new one. The worst that can happen is that you will end up with a spare. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-03 72985
When you get the tractors out on a bush-hog then you will see them come up into the operating range. With Kubota's high capacity cooling systems you do need to work them. They normally do not have any overheating problems with proper maintance. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-03 72991
Maybe it's just me, but somehow it seems like a design defect if you have to use a bushhog to reach normal operating temperature. ....
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| smdjeff
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2 Maryland
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2004-01-06 73316
I also have an MX5000. The needle on my temp gauge does not rise much either, maybe a mm or two beyond the Cold mark. I have a Woods BB720 that I was using in September to reclaim 5 or so acres of old pasture. The pasture had turned into thick weeds, vines and brush, alot of it shoulder high. I thought I was working it kind of hard and still the needle did not rise anywhere near a quarter of the way up the scale. I also stopped lots of times to clean the screen in front of the radiator. Even when the screen had become caked with debris, the needle stayed the same. I have not had any trouble with the tractor and have been more than pleased with the power. I don't have much to compare it to other than my Father-in-Law's Ford 801 Powermaster. I am going to mention the issue to my dealer. I will report back with any info I receive.
Jeff ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-07 73333
Ken, why is it a design defect? Kubota do to the efficient stlye of engine design that they used in some models ran so cool that they only used the siphon system to cool them. I've seen many engines on equipment that don't ever open a thermsotat until put to task. You can idle them or you can run them at half throttle and never open one that is why I wasn't worried over it not going up with just loader useage. In this industry if they are opening under no load conditions then I'd say something might be wrong! ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-07 73344
Don't forget that in Asia these are Ag machines working fulltime in heat and humidity that we only have nightmares about, toodling around the lawn cutting grass is a cake-walk by comparison.
If the cooling systems on these things were not ultra-efficient they would burn up in no time at all.
We have worked our machines in the Islands doing construction jobs that would have (and sometimes did) melt other machines.
I agree with Art, it is not a design defect, it is an ultra-efficient design. If it's a concern you could always change the thermostat or devise some form of temperature controlled shutter system as used on heavy equipment to keep the engine temp.'s up.
Best of luck. ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2004-01-07 73350
As long as the engine reaches operating temperature, that's what is important. The thermostat is there to keep the temp from varying too high or low. You can call it high efficiency, if you like, but I'll call it having the right thermostat.
If the operating temp doesn't come up to par, at say using a loader, then something is wrong. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-07 73353
At issue is the issue of not reaching normal operating temperature. If the "ultra efficient cooling system" is preventing it from reaching normal operating temperature under light usage the engine will suffer from lowered efficiency and premature wear. You disagree with this? ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-07 73355
Absolutely correct. No dispute at all.
My point is that there is still TWO $64 questions;
1) Is the temp. gauge reading a LOW temp. or just the lower end of NORMAL?
2) What is the 'normal' operating range for these machines, and how wide a spread is there in that range?
Best of luck. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-07 73356
Billy many, most all farm tractors don't kick the thermostat open till under load. True even with diesel trucks. It is apparent that it does draw up to 170 degree's which according to the people who designed it is efficient which I believe it is. Sorry but the difference between cars and light duty trucks that you and Ken might be familiar with doesn't apply here. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-07 73359
I think Murf nailed the relevant questions.
I know diesels run a bit cooler than gas engines, for a couple of reasons. They squeeze a little more energy out of the combustion process so there is less waste heat and the extra mass of the engine and all attached hardware provides a big heat sink. That said, on my JD the temp gauge pretty much sits 1/3-1/2 up the scale summer or winter. I was plowing snow with the temperature in the teens (degrees F) and it warmed up just fine.
If the OPs tractor is not reaching normal range there is obviously a problem. Nobody seems to be sure if this is the case yet.
If it is reaching normal range then there is a measurement defect (sending unit in bad location or faulty gauge or just mismatched parts).
If everything is working properly and it's not reaching a normal operational temperature then it wasn't properly designed for the target market.
At least that's how I see it. ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-01-07 73362
Art, I think we're all agreeing but have two different ways of saying it.
If I remember correctly, the post was all about if his tractor was running warm enough. I'm not sure if he's figured it out or not. All I was saying is, the engine should heat up to operating temp (except sitting and idling). If that's 170 degrees, then so be it. I know the engine on my generator runs at 172 so I'm sure you're right. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-07 73369
Ken, if it is registering but not up into the run area yet during light use or loader work we shouldn't be worring as others have stated theres are about the same. We know that it is reaching 170 degree's sitting and no heat on the other side so the thermostat must be working. All gauges run differently hopefully the ones with the degrees on them point to the right tempuratures. In this cause there are no temperatures to equal to and the question was is this right. I believe it is by what has been stated and the tractor did hit the market built right the first time!~ ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-07 73372
It may be normal for this tractor, but if it's providing misleading temperature information to the operator I'd say it's defective. This topic keeps coming up for a reason.
....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-07 73376
Ken, I haven't seen it that much here and as been stated the gauges are running the same. I can take a diesel that might be running a little cool and warm it up. Kind of stuck on how solve all the overheating problems that seem to be designed into some of the other make tractors. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-01-08 73421
Seems to me that I've seen auto gauges that are tri-coloured indicating cold, normal and hot ranges. I don't think there's much of a trick to engineering such a gauge and don't know why it wouldn't be done for tractors--comments about operating diesels below normal operating ranges are pretty common.
If these gauges are engineered so they don't indicate abnormal low temps I can't see that they're much of an improvement over an idiot light. Of course diesels did work just fine with only an idiot light so maybe this isn't a real big issue. However, as long as designers went to the trouble and costs of a gauge I can't see why I shouldn't indicate low temps as well as normal and high ones. Well, maybe they use gauges because everybody things idiot lights are inadequate and then went cheap on the sensor and are using ones that have narrow linear ranges. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-08 73429
Maybe it's because the machine, being designed in Metric in Japan doesn't read correctly when it's filled with Imperial water after gets here.......
Best of luck. ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-01-08 73435
I think Tom summed this whole disagreement up pretty well.
If the temp guage reads cold when it's actually at Operating Temp, then could it read half way when it's actually hot? ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-01-08 73436
I see what you mean Murf. If coolant capacity was rated in gallons, you would add too much water in Canada and the motors would run even colder... ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-08 73437
No, actually I was just trying to be funny.
Metric/Imperial is getting to be a bit of a running joke.
Best of luck. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-01-08 73443
I was too Murf. I should know that I have to add smiley faces or something so that everyone knows when I'm joking. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-08 73447
And here I thought you were going to say that it was because our water was COLDER up here..... silly me. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-08 73449
Non-functional gauges are a real gripe of mine. My Ford Ranger has an oil pressure gauge on the dash, but the sending unit is a make or break switch so if there's any oil pressure the gauge reads in the center of scale. Not any better than an idiot light. There's a mod you can make with a different sending unit and removing a resistor to make it work like a real gauge. Should be that way from the factory. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-01-08 73450
Murf, Colder AND bigger than US gallons. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-01-09 73504
Regarding Billy's point that maybe middle means hot, I'm guessing that's not the case. It's more likely that hot still means hot and the problem is a poor match between gauge and sender. Good chance that the design choices produced too much meter deflection across the normal operating temp range to fit on the gauge face so the bottom part of the deflection was in effect thrown away--maybe by just putting a peg where it says 'cold.'
Regarding the sideline discussion, I understand that special people had to be developed for those metric bricks. The original ones measured a hand by a span by something else. You'd think that anybody who has ten fingers should be able to make metric bricks but that wasn't the case and now we've got all those non-metric brick makers looking for work. ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-01-09 73506
"It's more likely that hot still means hot and the problem is a poor match between gauge and sender"
Hopefully you're right, Tom ....
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