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 | wildbill
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 36 Brandon, MS 
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2003-12-11 70880
I need some advice. I am looking at purchasing a compact tractor like a Kubota 3430 4WD. I am trying to decide between the GST or Hydro transmission. I have no experience with the Hydro but I do like the experience I had in a test drive at the dealer. My concern is with the relative capability of each and which one will best fit my application. Money is not the object here. My uses will be varied; loader work; gardening/ground work; mowing; all about equal time use. What is the optimum choice for me.
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2003-12-11 70886
Get the hydro. It is best suited to a wide variety of applications especially grass mowing. MUCH less time used do to no stopping to shift gears backing up, changing speeds, etc. With the hydro you just push down more on the go pedal. Hydro is great in the garden as you can creep at a snail's pace with a tiller. Moving items like trailers are very easy with hydro as no clutching is done and very fine movements are easy. You can get most jobs done without a hydro but it sure makes life a LOT easier. I had gearshift tractors for about 12 years until my buddy made me try an ehydro at his John Deere deal. I have NOT regretted the choice I made. ....
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| wildbill
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 36 Brandon, MS
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2003-12-11 70889
Thanks Chief. What about comparison bewteem the JD eHydro and the Kubota Hydro? Is pulling power equivalent given the same PTO HP? ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-11 70890
Chief is right! The hydro is best for the work you have described. Kubota's simplistic design gives excellent longevity and consistant petal feel for long life and effortless operation. The hydro is perfect for loader work as well as PTO work such as tilling and mowing. The GST as much as it is unique and an excellent performer is better suited for more open conditions or for very large areas. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-11 70898
wildbill, I personally like and feel the ehydro is superior to stand hydro due primarily to pedal response and engagement rate selection offer by the motion match feature. Motion Match gives you a soft and firm engagement, acceleration, and deceleration rate. A conventional hydro is more jerky and you can stall the tractor out doing jobs like loader work or pulling heavy. With the load match feature the controller will automaticly modulate the ehydro against the engine preventing lugging the engine down and or stalling it. The electronic cruise control is very nice for doing creeper work like roto-tilling.
I think the ehydro will actually pull more than a conventional hydro due to the above features. When I was on active duty, we used John Deere 4710's to tow CH-47 helicopters on the flight line that weighed as much as 50,000 lbs. and they barely broke a sweat. The soldiers loved those tractors and have found it difficult to tear them up. The separate drive pedal design I think was a good safety feature as well for working in very tight spaces.
I would recommend you try the ehydro and compare it to the others and see what your impressions are. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-11 70903
Chief, I spent about a half hour to an hour on a e-hydro this past week playing with a loader on a couple loads of stone dust from ten wheelers. I guess I found the way you didn't want the switch for loader work as it was spinning the tires all the time and I found the way it was far to forgiving as it wouldn't climb a hill with a load and I found that frustrating. It really does take some getting used too as for part of what I was doing I thought I had it mastered, then I had to change the switch to get the rest done. Ch47's really weigh 50,000lbs I know they are a lot more then the C-D models heuys? We've been using 600lb Cadet garden tractor hydro's to tow 15000lb ag tractors from time to time for quite a few years I guess that would be a proper comparison. ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144 
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2003-12-12 70932
There is no denying the popularity of the hydro transmissions. I went with gear primarily because all of the tractors that I have had previously have been gear and I am very comfortable with the gear transmissions.
I think that hydro transmissions are much easier to learn to operate well for new users. And for many (perhaps most) applications, hydros are outstanding performers. There are definitely differences in the way the hydros perform from one brand to the other. Of the hydros that I tried, I personally liked the JD the best. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-12-12 70938
Aside from the pedal layout I thought the Kubota and JD hydros were about the same in basic operation, but the LoadMatch feature of the eHydro is definitely a great feature. With LoadMatch on it's very, very difficult to stall the eHydro.
I think hydros are less costly long-term, at least anecdotally. You see lots of clutch replacement questions here but rarely an expensive repair required with hydros.
Lastly, by far most CUTs sold are hydros and it may well be easier to resell a hydro machine than a gear. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-12 70940
Art, sounds to me like the tractor you were operating may not have had enough ballast for the rear tires to get good traction. The part about not being able to climb a hill reinforces that. I think you would have that problem on pretty much any tractor. But you are to be roundly congratulated for over coming your fear of John Deere tractors and trying it out. Did you let anyone see you doing this??? ;-) The ehydro does take a little getting used to but once I made the adjustment, I liked it. The CH-47's weigh in around the mid 20,000 lbs. range in empty flight configuration but after prepared for ship load out with all the "stuff" the soldiers put in them, they can go as high as 50,000 lbs. "Fat Cow" configured CH-47's approach that weight when fully loaded out mission ready as well. ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2003-12-12 70942
I hear alot that most CUTs sold are hydros, but an orange dealer in Texas told me that the shuttle shift (DT) was the best seller (for the L3130). And the dealer I purchased from in Mason WI had more DTs than any HSTs or GSTs. Maybe a question for Art or another dealer, could this be a regional thing? What are the percentages of hydros vs gear sold?
Dave ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-12 70945
Chief the hydro stopped pushing, the tires was me getting used to the differences in the different modes of the transmission. One way it would climb most of the hill and was very aggressive and the other was easy to use except climbing. I guess as a laymen on the tractor it was more just me getting used to the different styles of operation provided by the E-hydro. By the way, the Kubota climbed the steepest part in the midddle range the JD reliefed out and had to go to low. Can't tell how many dergrees slop it was but I don't think they are going to be using the drive that much this winter after we get some good snow and ice. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-12 70948
Sorry Art, I misunderstood. If it relieved out on the hill and you had Load Match engaged, the system performed as advertised. It limited the load on the transmission and prevented stalling out the engine. The Motion Match feature you just have to experiment with and see what setting works best. What size John Deere tractor were you using and what was the Kubota that you referred to? As you said they take a little getting used to and SOP meter calibration but once done worked well in my experience. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-12-12 70949
The eHydro stopped pushing? You must have had loadmatch turned off. I climb steep hills all the time with mine, hills that give me the willies, and with loadmatch on it never stops pushing and it never stalls. Smooth as silk.
....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-12 70950
It was a 4310 and 3130 comparison. The Deere dealer just left his and I don't like to do that. This guy when I was questioning him as his original intention for a demo I thought it was best to stay present. There was six ten wheeler loads leveled and spread on his new drive way. The lot needed a lot more work. He didn't feel one bit of remorse as he liked and bought the Bota but when I got off the Deere there was another guy there to operate it and neither tractor stopped working. I do feel sorry for the dealer as I know what clean up costs are. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-12 70953
Art, in this case you CLEARLY demonstrate the great value of a dealer that gives a ***t and goes the extra mile. I would never just drop off a piece of equipment like that and leave. I would have had he exact same impression if that had been done to me. I originally had GREAT reservations about and wanted NOTHING to do with the ehydro until my buddy made me demo the tractor with him their reviewing and demostrating the ehydro features and exactly how they work along with operation characteristics. Had that dealer stayed to provide a little instruction and advice perhaps the comparison might have been different. In this case you made the sale and well you should have. In this case your customer definitely made the right choice. Customer support and training is a very important part of making the sale but this point is lost on some dealers. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-12 70961
My local JD dealer seems to have the same level of detachment. I don't know if he just thought that I was not serious about a tractor or what, but he lost a sale and I ended up buying a NH with FEL and BH instead. I liked the Kubotas, but the dealer did not have stock on the model I wanted.
My tractor has a shuttle shift synchro tranny. I like it. It is fast with the FEL. I have an old Allis fork lift, and it has a similar F/R shifter. This is definitely a personal preference, but the modern synchro transmissions are much easier to use than the old stop-shift-go non-synchro models. But even those worked for over 70 years before synchros and hydros came along.
I don't know about clutch life yet, but I expect that it is like any other manual clutch vehicle. If you use the clutch as a variable speed device, it will not last as long as if you select the proper gear and engage it. ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2003-12-12 70965
There's a hill behind my house that is steep enough you can only go straight up or down. I can pull that hill in mid range, at 1,500 RPMs. Peddle to the metal or slow, doesn't matter.
I can put the FEL into a dirt pile and never stall the engine.
No complaints here on the eHydro. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-12 70981
Now that I think about it......Billy brings up a good point. What rpms were you operating the tractor at? The ehydro should not have stopped pushing altogether. If the rpms were set too low you could exceeded the output capacity of the pump (unlikely) or sounds like the suction side filter could have been restricted or just plain low on oil. In any case the dealer should have stuck around to make sure his equipment performed well. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-12-12 70983
The JD dealer had to be an idiot to drop off a piece of equipment and leave when another dealer was staying. Why'd he even bother? ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-13 71024
Chief, please it was me playing it was over 2000 rpm at all times while I was digging. The hydro just reliefed out thats all it wouldn't climb anymore. Tried changing the settings but it still wouldn't climb it. Bucket was empty and the tractor just stopped. Tried it again at full throttle same thing. Kubota climbed it at 2000, it was steep and not a place everyone would go but he was leveling there for a driveway. Our area is not very level and for me, I'd been on worse with farmers and no I don't think I'd have gone across it unless the tires were moved way out. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-13 71025
I didn't try it in low range, Billy I wouldn't have considered trying it at 1500 RPM on either. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2003-12-16 71314
This may not effect the original purpose of this thread (mowing etc.) but I have found for picking up logs or anytime you need to be a bit more delicate with the loader that my shuttle shift allows me to idle down easily and reduce the pump output. I can run the foot throttle and clutch like a car. You should also be able to do this with the GST. I'm thinking that with a hydro you set some RPM with the hand throttle that gives you enough power and you're stuck with whatever pump output that RPM gives you, even if the loader ends up too fast for the job. Then you end up trying to operate the loader and the throttle with the same hand. I've read some complaints here about the jerky operation of the FEL and I'm guessing it might be because of this limitation.
Dave ....
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