Go BottomBallasting rear tires for FEL Work
 | wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia 
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2003-12-07 70474
I went and looked at a New Kubota 7800 w/ FEL. When I inquired about weights vs filled tires. I was told that you get allot more weight by filling the tires and the cost was allot less. When I asked what they filled the tires with, I was told "Used Anti Freeze ". This made me a little nervous as I intend to do most of my use in the horse pasture and yard ( having dogs and a 2 1/2 yr old) having a tire blow ( although unlikely it is possible ) and dump antifreeze in my pasture or yard does not give me a warm fuzzy. That was the only option the dealer gave me even after stating my concerns. Was told they are 6 ply tires and it is not likely. What other options do I have that would not be so hazardous to my animals in the event of a leak or blow out?
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2003-12-07 70477
There is a product out called Rim Guard which is made from beet juice IIRC. It should be pretty safe but it's not available everywhere yet I don't think. I couldn't find it in Oregon. Calcium Chloride has been used for years, and I think it's a lot safer than antifreeze. It's basically salt. It will kill the grass when spilled, and grass may not grow for awhile, but I don't think it does any permanent damage. ....
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 | kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-07 70478
Calcium chloride used to be used a lot and is also heavier than the antifreeze, but it is very corrosive and if you have a leak and don't catch it, it will eat your rim up!! It has been my experience that if a tire develops a leak the loss of fluid is generally not that great before you notice it and take care of it. I have been very impress with the R-4 tires on my 7800 as I accidentally ran over a hedge apple tree with those huge thorns (they ran right through my old man's tractor tires) but they didn't even stick in mine at all. I also use a box blade for rear ballast, but definitely wouldn't give up the fluid in the tires either. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-07 70481
Did you go w/ the anti freeze Kubotaguy? By the way, sorry I didn't make it out. I was going to shot you an E-mail friday, but daycare was closed Had my terible 2 year old all day ( Which wasn't so terrible playing in the snow. But man do I wish I already had my tractor when it came time to shovel) and by the time I had a minute I figured you were probably not going to see the E-mail. ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2003-12-07 70483
wbowhunt
If you need permanent rear ballast, then fill the rears.
If not, hang some removable weight off the 3ph or rear wheels.
....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-07 70484
I had the dealer fill my rear tires and I think they used Rim Guard. I think it is a fancy name for windshield washer fluid. When I set the pressure in my tires, some leaked out and that is what is smelled like to me. If you use calcium chloride; make sure that they tube the tire with a puncture resistant tube. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-07 70486
I went with the anti-freeze. That is all that Antietam Tractor uses as the tire people they use will not use calcium chloride because it eats their pumping machine up. I don't think the anti-freeze will be a problem unless your are going to use your tires to pick up loose nails after a roofing job!!! What dealer have you decided to go with? Which tractor are you going with? I had a blast in the snow Saturday and never put the chains on and it did great with just the R-4's. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-07 70487
I think in the long run I will be better off with the ballasting as for the first two years my Honey Do list is really long with things that are going to use the FEL. Moving 40 tons of stone dust/ Horse Manure/ Mulch / Landscaping ( Now I know why she has been suggesting the tractor idea so much) I will have to look into the Rim Guard. Thanks ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-07 70491
I know what you mean with the projects as they seem to accumulate faster than I can get the other ones completed. The rim guard might be a better solution for you with the horses, just in case. Did you check into maybe getting the iron wheels weights? That might be another option. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-07 70493
I talked about it as an option, I suppose I really need to decide on a tractor first, but when it came to making the final deal I wanted to be able to at least know my options for issues like ballasting. After searching on line about tractor ballasting and all the technical discussion on some of the sites I found. I think I will stay with either a box on the 3pt or add on weights. Found allot about concerns of soil compaction / fuel / extra wear on tractor / I am planning on allot of FEL work, but also allot of just mowing / rotary cutter / tilling / grading . Will I need really need it for everything? I am guessing that it is always something I can add later. I did find that you can buy an attachment that allows you to fill them with water yourself. I could do that in the summer with all my yard work and then drain them out in the winter. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-07 70495
I wouldn't worry too much about soil compaction. I forget how much weight the fluid adds, but when you pick up 800 or 900 pounds in that FEL which places a lot of weight on the front tires, you're still going to get compaction. I too was afraid of the fuel consumption since I went from a 17 HP to 30 HP, but I messed around almost all day Saturday in the snow and used only about 3 or 4 gallon of diesel. Of course I was only at about 1500 RPMs most of the time. I'm anxious to see how it does with mid mount mower this summer with the fuel and weight in the tires. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-07 70496
I wasn't so mush worried about compaction when using the FEL as I am with weekly mowing. Being the house is relatively new Built Nov 02 with a walk out basement and alot of fill all the way around. The soil is already not in great shape. Did alot of areating and adding compost this summer to try to improve it some. I suppose only time will tell. Just as a FYI. I know you really like the Kubota, but I am heading more towards the NH or Deere after my test rides this week. Going down to see another NH dealer tomorrow. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-07 70498
My house was finished in December 2001 and I too have a walk out basement. I actually had about 4 to 6 inches of settling around the basement walls, but I bought a 24" X 48" steel roller (from tractor supply) that you fill with water and it weighs about 1000 lbs and rolled along the house to pack it pretty tight to avoid ruts from tractor. It seems to work but they sloped the ground away from the house pretty good to avoid water problems. You better get your new machine soon, before we get another snow!! I'm pretty sure you'll love whatever you get and have a great time on it.
Antietam didn't work out for you or you just shopping the deals? ....
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| JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2003-12-07 70499
In my eariler posts mentioned my tire leakage problem and corrosion with my r4's. Turned out to be a tube valve stem problem/the stemm separated from the tube. Caught it in time no damage to the rim but did remove the tubes and installed "rim guard".
I tried using my fel with only filled tires on my 790 4wd. Spun them alot/end up using several combo's in ADDITION back hoe/box scraper/wight box now it GRUNTS and really fills the bucket to the point matching the lift capacity of the fell!
Mowing all I do is drop everything and run 2 wd with the 3 pt mower/tight turns dont tear up the turf.I airate every month during the season using a home built tandum blade type airator that I tow behind the mower.
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-07 70504
I talked with Justin at Antietam, but he was not very forth coming with information. If I didn't ask a question he just stood there looking at me. I explained I was a first time buyer and yet I really had to pry for feedback. He only really wanted to show me the 7800 which is a nice tractor. Didn't want to talk at all about NH. Said the NH CUTs were just to much more money and that NH didn't really compete until you got into the bigger tractors. So I am still out looking for now. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-07 70506
For the size amount of land you have why go for the 7800 when even the BX would do! You could have a Bx22 or 23 with nearly all attachments for the same money. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-08 70519
Yeah, I think the 7800 is pretty much out of the picture. I am heading out now to go look at the BX22 and 23 and also the TC 21 and TC24 ( at a different dealer). I may stop at the JD dealer and look at the 4115. I am just concerned with getting something to small and regretting it. I liked the JD 2210 except for the limited hitch and ground clearence. Like I said earlier it looks like a lawnmower on steroids. I haven't really looked at the BX series as the dealer I went to last week didn't really want to discuss them. When I told him my intentions and needs he went right to the 7800 and said he thought the BX series would be a little small and limiting. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-08 70521
I agree with you on the 2210. It is not a bad tractor but it is more akin to a large garden tractor with CUT hp. I think you would be better served by the 4110 or 4115. Depending on the the features you want the 790 would be worth a look too. I have the rim guard filled tires and find that I don't have problems with compaction or leaving tracks unles it is very wet and the ground in soft. I think anything would leave tracks then. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-12-08 70547
Getting back to the issue of ballast for FEL work, the decision to whether you fill the tires or use add-on weights may depend on your equipment. Some tractor/loader combinations require filled tires per the manufacturer. Take a look at your loader manual for ballast requirements. Anytime a manufacturer says filled tires are required you could *probably* get away with additional 3ph weight instead, but it changes the stresses on the tractor because the weight is much further back and the additional leverage could theoretically break something. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-08 70580
So many decissions to make. Back to the Earlier comment Chief made regarding Rim guard and windshield washer fluid. When I talked with my local JD dealer about a 4115 and ballasting options, he stated that they fill the tires with windshield washer fluid straigh out. No fancy name just plain ole fluid. Figure that is a good option as it is non corrowsive and not toxic. Hey one option I can finally say is decided on. ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-08 70582
Windshield washer fluid works fine as a freeze preventer, but it will only provide about half the ballast weight of a normal calcium chloride solution. Calcium chloride has been used for decades and is only mildly corrosive and is non-toxic. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-08 70584
OK, Just when I thought I had one option decided upon you have to throw that in. I think I will look at what the dealer has when I buy. I am down to the TC24 or 29 or the JD 4115. Commiting soon ( if not I will have to be committed ) I know the JD dealer does the Windshield washer fluid. I did not ask about it at the NH Dealer today. Ultimately for me it will come down to Non toxic for my animals ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-12-08 70610
Have you sat on the tractors and looked at the visibility on the front to the sides of the hood? Have you looked at the serviceabilty? how do you check the oil? Get to the engine? ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-09 70625
Calcium chloride is the same salt that is sold in stores to de-ice driveways and sidewalks. It is not toxic to your animals. Calcium chloride is also the same salt that is discharged out of water softeners to drains and septic tanks.
The methanol in many windshield washer fluids is toxic and potentially fatal to many animals. Regular (ethylene glycol) engine antifreeze is also toxic. There are some engine antifreeze solutions that are advertised as safe for animals. I have never heard of anyone using those for tractor ballast, but it is certainly possible.
Calcium chloride is very safe and even if your animals did drink a bit of it, it will only have a laxative effect. If you spill some just dilute it with water and wash it away. With CaCl, the more you add to the water, the lower the freeze point goes and the heavier the solution weight gets per gallon up to about 15 pounds per gallon. With windshield washer antifreeze, the more you add the freeze point goes down but the density goes down also. With a low freeze point methanol mix, the weight can be only six pounds per gallon or so. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-12-09 70627
I had another flat tire last week, a front turf tire this time. Fluid just doesn't do it for me.
My rear tires would weigh more than 200 pounds each with calcium fill and would be impossible to handle by myself.
My Befco steel plates add 150 pounds per wheel with the EZ weight mount. That's about the same total weight as fluid but, non-toxic, resell-able, one man tire change/repair and no rusty $300 yellow rims.
It's working for me. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-09 70629
I agree with Mark about the iron weights. They are easier to handle and generally they won't harm your animals if you are careful. :-) I just don't see the point to using fluid ballast that does not have a high density.
I have large R-4s on my tractor, so handling them myself is not an option. I routinely run over cactus out here in the desert and it hasn't been a problem yet. My tires are loaded with calcium chloride to the top of the rims. Between the tire, rim and ballast, they weigh a lot more than I want to handle by myself. With the iron plates, you can take them off as you need to to fix a flat, and when there is no fluid in the tire, you can fix the puncture yourself if you want to. ....
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| wbowhunt
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 207 West Virginia
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2003-12-09 70653
Good point, I had gotten so into the fluid ballasting and was told the cost on the wieghts was expensive compared to fluid, and you got less wieght as well. I had kind of written it off. But may look at as my best all around answer. Each has its plus's and minus's I guess. I think I really need to sit down and see what exactly I will have to do and then what I woudl like to do and figure out my true needs vs the Tim Allen R R R more power and overwhelming options available. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2003-12-10 70725
I know exactly what you mean about the Tim Allen syndrome. I had a B-7200 and decided I wanted a FEL. The 7200 didn't have power steering so I decided to go with a new tractor. I started looking at the 7500's, then looked at the 2410, then said for only a little more I could get a 2710 (7800's weren't out then), but for a little more I could get the L-3010. Before I realized it, I had all ready doubled what my budget was (as the tractor size increases so do the costs of implements). Then my wife brought me back to reality which is about the time the 7800 came out. Then deciding between the 7500 & 7800 was tough. I'm glad that they didn't have the 7610 out then or I'd still be weighing pro's and con's!!!! ....
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 | fastwalker19
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5
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2003-12-20 71751
The new Flexpoint Suitcase Weight Rack provides ballasting for FEL work. It allows you to mount your suitcase weights on the rear of your tractor, without loosing your Flexpoint® towing capability. It accepts up to (12) 40 lb weights per side for a total capacity of 500 lbs. Other benefits are that it provides traction for rear wheels, and prevents 3 pt hitch from rising during towing operation. ....
Link: Flexpoint Weight Rack
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