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 | luke286
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 Canastota, NY 
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2003-03-03 50448
I'm trying to understand the best backhoe for the dollar with the many MFG's to choose from. I'm a homeowner and will be using the hoe around the house for small projects, no contractor work.
Anyone have any recommendations on who to choose or stay away from?
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2003-03-04 50462
Luke, I'm not familiar enough with Kobota to know if they make a hoe atachment or not, but I've allways had better luck keeping atachment brands matched to tractor brand. If you'r doing light duty only a 3 pt. hitch model would probably work fine, but the hoes with a subframe that stays on the tractor when the hoe is off are easier on the tractor frame. The subframe spreads the load of the hoe over a bigger aeria of the tractor rather than just the three pt. I've never priced a 3 pt. model, but I'm sure there less for a like size unit. Perhaps you might find a used subframe model for the same or less money than a new 3 pt. Enjoy your shopping. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-03-04 50466
I don't know if you already have the tractor but some are more tolerant to 3ph hoes than others. I don't imagine the warranties for any compact covers damage from 3ph-hoe use and probably a dealer wouldn't recommend one, but you might check. Informing yourself about the possible damage to a tractor from 3ph-hoe use in the archives here also would be good.
Irrespective of all appropriate cautions, a 3ph hoe is what I have for my 24 pto hp mid-80's Ford My dealer recommended a Kelley B600 when I bought the tractor used. The hoe has served my occasional homeowner type needs just fine for four years.
The B600 is a moderate quality and moderate cost hoe that is also not especially strong for the tractor, which is good in a 3ph type. It has a 12" bucket and runs OK from the 6.9-gpm tractor hydraulics. Its practical trenching depth is around 5' although it will dig a 2' bottom 6' deep when close to the tractor. The bucket does not swing a full 180-degrees, which restricts how far from a hole dirt can be dumped. I do have some mild maintenance things to sort out this summer.
Mounts for a 3ph hoe should be considered. They should stabilize the hoe and also lock the 3ph down to prevent the hitch from accidentally going into lift mode when somebody is in the hoe seat. The Kelley mount is capable of distribution some load to the drawbar, which might be desirable in a 3ph model.
The Kelley mounts require a plate for stabilizers to be mounted on the drawbar. Some drawbars have to have a large hole drilled in them to get the plate close enough to the drawbar support but mine didn't. Removing the drawbar top-plate provided an appropriate mounting hole.
I guess that's a bunch of detail about Kelley hoes. There are quite a few after-market hoes to choose from--both 3ph and sub-frame. I hope all this detail gives you something to work with when you start evaluation different makes.
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 | marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-04 50473
Luke,
I keep recommending the same hoe (yes I sell it) for a very good reason. It is the best I have seen. Several of the major backhoe companies have either tried to buy our hoe and rebrand it or tried to copy it. See the Mazzotti Backhoes. They are among the cheapest/ full featured on the market. Currently their are two sizes available with 3 more to follow in March. They are three point, have their own pump. Have a special restrictor that automatically slows the swing of the boom to a stop in last 1.5 inch of swing(instead of using cheap slam bumpers; go ahead ask these guys what I mean!) They also have the heaviest construction in the boom and in the stabilizers. Best pritection for the legs and shin bones too. The whole unit is basically and industrial backhoe built in Italy that has been redisgned for three point hitches here in the US. Follow the equipment links to Mazzotti ....
Link: Mazzotti
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-03-04 50479
Luke, which model tractor do you have? ....
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| luke286
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 Canastota, NY
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2003-03-04 50513
The tractor I've purchased is a Kubota B7500 (21 HP). ....
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| luke286
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 Canastota, NY
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2003-03-04 50514
MArk, The Mazzotti looks like a nice unit. Can you provide pricing for the 180 and 200 units with all safety devices you'd reccommend? ....
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| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-06 50630
The 180 will be availvable in May and sell for 3995. The 200's are available and are 4495. All saftey equipment is included(transport locks, saftey lift point, solid top link bar etc,). You need to determine the size of bucket that you want the 200 comes standard with a 12 inch. Other sizes are available from 9" to 24". ....
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 | jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 428 burton. michigan
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2003-03-12 51010
MAZOTTI is a nice hoe and I considered it, but I know the Mazotti's 230 loading height is mis-stated because that depends on the size/height of the tractors rear tires. I do not sell farm equipment, and being an engineer myself, if the hoe can't be hooked up to your tractor with a subframe made to YOUR particular tractor, I never considered those models. THe Praire DOG 7.5 hoe fits perfectly to any subframe made by Wood's for Wood's 7500. The Praire DOg 7.5 is priced just like the Mazotti with VERY close or the same specifications.
I don't know whether Mazotti's hydraulic fittings are American, but trying to get a hose fitting replaced that isn't American threads is really tough. In my opinion the Mazotti's frame where the swing cylinders are located are not as heavy duty as my Prairie Dog plus my cast iron stabizer arms are heavier dutied and the stabilzer pads are easily flipped for dirt or pavement. The Praire Dog Digger's buckets force is 3100 lbs and the dipperstick force is 2231 lbs. The major deciding factor for me was the ability of the backhoe to be connected to my Kubota B-2150 with a subframe made for My tractor. Feature for feature the Praire Dog 7.5 backhoe was the most heavy duty hoe (1057 lbs without bucket) that could be subframed attached to my tractor that I DIDN'T have to pay over 6000.00 dollars for. Check out the Praire dog 7.5, it is a Very well built hoe for a VERY competitive amount of dollars. ....
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| zedosix
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23 Ontario, Canada
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2003-03-12 51019
Are there any ag dealers up in Canada, specifically eastern Ontario? Would like to check out their products and prices. ....
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| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-12 51035
The statement of the height on the Mazzotti is based on the fact that the unit is 3 pt hitch mounted and its demensions are caclulated to ASAE standards for 3pt. deminsions. The top link is solid mount and presets the lift height off the ground. Although tires are a minor consideration, it won't vary the ability of the hoe more than a couple of inches. Also, if you are an engineer, you must know that T-1 steel is a little more durable than cast iron. Cast iron is brittle. Although great for wear, its tensile strentgh is at best 50,000 psi. It is a poor area to use cast iron where there is a lot of possible impact and stress loading. I have inspected your prarie dog hoe hoe up close. Quality and features just aren't there. The Mazzotti's list for around 5600 with its own pump and everthing. Also, Mazzotti is an ISO 9002 certified manufacturer. They manufacture the same basic hoe in Europe to be OEM for Skid Steer loaders such as Gehl, Newholland, Bobcat, and more. As far as subframes go, you proved my point about the fact that subframes are not compatible with each other. A 3 pt hoe retains its resale value, because they are able to fit any tractor and do not depend on the hydraulics of the tractor to work. ....
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| caveman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1 ohio
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2003-03-12 51047
I have a mazzotti 200 3point backhoe,have not used it yet but it looks like it is built very well.I hope to try it this weekend.It came complete with its own pto pump And everything to hook up to the tractor.Also, could someone tell me what type oil goes in the gearbox that is attached to the pto pump? thanks....... ....
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| jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 428 burton. michigan
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2003-03-12 51048
Mark,
I am very familar with TI steel specs since my engineering specialty and the company I work for are major OEM manufacturers of tensile and Rockwell hardness testing equipment with our machines in every major corporation in the U.S. True, TI steel has a greater tensile strength than cast iron, but the cast iron stabilizers are huge on the Prairie Dog negating any TI tensile strength on the Mazzotti in essence Mark, we are splitting hairs on this feature, plus the Mazzotti does not have flippable feet for concrete or asphalt. Even on the Wood's 7500, cast iron is used for their stabilizer arms so I'm sure Wood's design engineers considered T1 steel. As far as features both hoes are very nice and have very similar quality, but the box frame where the swing arms are attached are in my opinion are heavier duty in the Prairie Dog, but the Mazzotti isn't bad either. Since the Prairie Dog comes with a huge 3 point mount that is removeable if a person decides to run with a subframe made by Woods, resale is NOT affected, since you have both mounts and you could re-attach the 3 point mount if you sold it. Some guys just won't attach a backhoe to their tractor with a 3 point mount and I don't blame them. Consequently, you lose backhoe sales to backhoes than have availibility of a matching subframe for the particular tractor. That was the MAJOR reason why I didn't buy a Mazotti, because I would have had to fabricate my own subframe to fit my B-2150 and the Wood's 1006 FEL. It was much simplier to buy a Woods subframe made for my tractor and FEL knowing it would fit The Praire Dog. In your defense, I do wish I had the slowing of the swing arms on your Mazotti, but I can live without it since 1000's of backhoes have been are are still being made without it.
I know all about 9002 requirements since the company I work for certifies OEMs for ISO because we are A2LA Guide 25 Lab certified which is a much higher standard than just being 9002 of which we are that too, but most companies I works for demand either Navlab or A2LA certified. Just because a company is 9002 certified does not make there final product good or bad. Bad products by 9002 manufacturers are made everyday because of poor design and engineering and vice versa. 9002 is just a set of requirements that maintains what was on the blueprint comes out at the end of the production line. A 9002 company could very well have a marginal product that met 9002 requirements but didn't do the job or did the job poorly. Being 9002 just means they had the MONEY and the technical manpower to jump through through the certification hoops. Many quality manufacturers we sell and certify or calibrate machines to aren't 9002 because the process is expensive and exhausting. I know of many companys that are doing what 9002 requires but can't or are not required by to be 9002 their suppliers. Some companies I work for have higher standards than 9002 and as long as those higher standards are maintained for their customers, 9002 is waived since it would put some quality manufacturers out of business.
As far as hydraulics, either backoe can be run by either connecting to the tractors hydraulic system if the tractor has wet lines to the rear or running a PTO pump, that is up to the choice of the owner. The subframe or 3 point mounting setup can be used with either the tractor hydraulics or a separate PTO pump, so I don't know what you were trying to say in your last sentence. I have a separate PTO pump made by the very reputable hydraulic company Caproni.
Finally, both hoes are nice but I think the Praire Dog stands out for reason that I stated, but a person wouldn't be making a bad decision by buying a Mazotti if he could live without the subframe mounting advantage. At least both hoes have 2 separate swing cylinders and not the single cylinder chain set-up Woods uses, plus the Wood's pricing of the 7500 is just too much money for a lesser quality hoe as comapred to the Prairie Dog or the Mazotti. ....
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| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-12 51050
Use tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid like MF permatran III or similar universal fluid. Not R&O. ....
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| marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
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2003-03-12 51056
A bit of clarification. The Mazzotti uses a Caproni pump as well. The stabilizer legs are made up of formed 1/2" T1. The inside of which is reinforced with another 1/2" t-1 plate welded inside of the support. The stabilizers can be outfitted with street pads if you like. The hydraulic cylinders are of the highest quality available. So is the control valve. I was with a customer today when he put one on his 3010 Kubota HST. Everyone including the dealer and the new owner were astounded at the fluidity of motion and sensitivity of the backhoe. They had sold Great Bend, Kubota, Koyker, Kelley, and a host of others and were floored by the sheer quality and contol of the hoe. Having operated others myself, the feel of the Mazzotti is uncomparible to anything but a large industrial TLB. ....
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